From: owner-stillpt-digest@smoe.org (stillpt-digest) To: stillpt-digest@smoe.org Subject: stillpt-digest V5 #15 Reply-To: stillpt@smoe.org Sender: owner-stillpt-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-stillpt-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk stillpt-digest Monday, January 20 2003 Volume 05 : Number 015 Today's Subjects: ----------------- b/comments1/19 ["Donald G. Keller" ] Re: b/comments1/19 ["Susan Kroupa" ] Re: b/comments1/19 [allenw ] Re: b/comments1/19 ["marty" ] Re: b/comments1/19 ["Berni Phillips" ] a/faith on set [meredith ] Re: a/faith on set ["marty" ] Re: b/comments1/19 ["Susan Kroupa" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 19 Jan 2003 13:16:29 -0500 (EST) From: "Donald G. Keller" Subject: b/comments1/19 So let me see if I've got this right: - -=Firefly= is off the air, with (I believe) three unaired episodes in the can. - -It's not certain whether SMG will continue as Buffy, the writers themselves (partly as a result) don't know what they're going to do after this season, and oh by the way with the show's contract up UPN is considering cancellation among their options. - -The show contract for =Angel= is also up, the WB is unhappy with the ratings, and they are =also= considering cancellation. So, if everything falls exactly wrong, Joss Whedon's entire TV empire could crumble away to nothing...and he would have =free time!= (Now =there's= a scary thought.) It does seem more likely that there will be =some= Joss Whedon show on TV this coming fall (he still has a production contract or whatever with Fox). And if it's a spinoff of =Buffy=, it seems to me that the possibilities, in descending likelihood, would be to star 1) Faith 2) Dawn 3) Kennedy. Any of which might work. Which brings me to my daughter Deirdre's theory (we had a long talk the other day for the first time in a while). I hope I get this right. She thinks that, first of all, Buffy's dying initially in "Prophecy Girl" meant that Buffy kept only part of the Slayer strength for herself; most of it went to Kendra, and then to Faith; Deirdre thinks that Faith is definitely stronger than Buffy, stronger than we think, and that Buffy fights her to a standstill only because Buffy is a better fighter (Faith being kind of sloppy). (Similar remarks may be true of Kendra, I'd add.) This is where the vulnerability lies, and Deirdre believes that the solution to the season dilemma will be some kind of spell by Willow to =take away Buffy's powers= and give them all to Faith to make her even stronger. Thus, Buffy could resume a normal life, take care of Dawn better, work as a counselor, and fade from the show's spotlight. Also plausibly, the final confrontation might kill Faith (not what we want, but maybe necessary if Eliza Dushku can't/won't continue the role), and Kennedy would be Called. I've heard more outlandish theories. As always, we'll see. Speaking of Faith, I wanted to say re Susan's comments about Faith after she re-watched the 3rd season: Amen, amen, amen, and amen. Faith fascinates me more than any other character. It's very likely that if I submit a paper for the upcoming academic conference, it'll be about Faith. (Interesting note: if this =is= the last season of the show, as we know it at least, it will end about two days before the conference starts.) And to Todd, about the relative quality of the seasons: My glib opinion, still, is that while the 2nd season peaks higher ("Surprise"/"Innocence," "Passion," "Becoming"), and the Romance of Buffy & Angel looms larger in =Buffy= mythology, the 3rd season is more consistent; in particular, the last half of the season (starting with "Helpless") is the longest unbroken stretch of excellent episodes in the show's history; even the two "lite" episodes ("The Zeppo" and "Doppelgangland") accomplish very well what they set out to do. Susan again: Really good point about the snow at the end of "Amends" being the manifestation of Good oppposed to the First; I'd half-forgotten that. And it's very possible, therefore, that Incorporeal Giles is a manifestation thereof as well (a kind of Gandalf the White, as Joseph suggests). Worth pondering. And by the way, when I re-watched "Bring On the Night" and "Showtime" today, I noticed in the former that Giles removed his glasses in that one, too. Part of his "clothes," I guess. And a refinement on my comment about the telepathy scene in "Showtime." Note that Xander doesn't realize it's happening until Willow hails him ("What!?" he says, jumping; Kennedy repeats herself, thinking he's talking to her). And then there's a gap where we're not overhearing thoughts just before Xander says "I know just the place," which quite plausibly is where Willow is relaying to Xander what Buffy "said." Todd: You misremember about "The Gift." I just checked, and it's =Willow= who telepathically tells Spike to get up to Dawn on the tower (while she and Tara telekinetically sweep the minions out of the way). So it's all keeping consistent in my mind: Willow is the only true telepath. I'm still a little unsure why Willow was suddenly able to do magic again after the First took her over the previous time. Bob: Good point about the coven asking for Giles on the phone (!! he couldn't talk on the phone if he's incorporeal!!); they don't think he's dead. They have a seer, so she must know what is actually the case. Hmm. I'm firmly convinced,incidentally, that whatever nature the manifestation of Joyce to Dawn was (=probably= the First; it was trying to scare her/cast her into despair like its Eve-manifestation tried to do to the Slayers in Training/Waiting--both phrases have been used, by the way), the manifestation of Joyce to Buffy was =not= the First--it was clearly in her dreams (the first Buffy dreams since "Restless," I believe), and given that the message was the same as that of Giles (also probably not the First) and Xander--"rest up, Buffy, you need to recuperate"--I believe that it was meant as =good= advice. (Sorry, that's a damn complicated sentence.) Funny bit I hadn't noticed previously (not exact quote): Rona(?): [holding sword] What's the point? Kennedy: It's =this= end--you stick it in the bad guys. Todd: Willow and Buffy are the same age (presumably, Xander too, since they were in the same high-school class); and since Buffy was born in 1981, she should be turning 22, well, this coming episode on Tuesday. Willow may not be quite 22 yet (do we know when her birthday is?). Kennedy, if she feels she's old to be called, is probably at least 17 or 18, possibly even 20. Not a great age difference. Meredith: Good point about Eve being a good name for the First. (Do we know for sure that was even the dead girl's name??) Also a good point about Buffy's status, both in re the First manifesting as her and in re not activating Spike's chip: she =was= dead, again, and now she's alive: but is she fully human again? Maybe Not. Should be interesting to see how they play it from here. And yes, it seems this may well be the repercussions of resurrecting Buffy. That bringeth me to the end of my scribbled notes, and more than enough for one day. There'll be more to discuss in not much more that 48 hours. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 19 Jan 2003 13:45:21 -0700 From: "Susan Kroupa" Subject: Re: b/comments1/19 - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Donald G. Keller" To: Cc: Sent: Sunday, January 19, 2003 11:16 AM Subject: b/comments1/19 > > Speaking of Faith, I wanted to say re Susan's comments about Faith after > she re-watched the 3rd season: Amen, amen, amen, and amen. Faith > fascinates me more than any other character. It's very likely that if I > submit a paper for the upcoming academic conference, it'll be about Faith. I still think that the writers blew it big time by focussing on Adam and not extending the Faith/Buffy body switch during that season, because that was the heart of that year's story arc. To me, anyway. And Faith, at least as played by Eliza Dushku, was infinitely more compelling and charismatic than Adam. > Bob: Good point about the coven asking for Giles on the phone (!! he > couldn't talk on the phone if he's incorporeal!!); they don't think he's > dead. They have a seer, so she must know what is actually the case. Hmm. I noticed, though, in the interview with ASH (that Todd gave us the link to), that ASH was vague and cagey about Giles this season. To quote: From risingflame: Do you appear as anything other than a living breathing human in series 7? Tony Head: All I can say is - well, that's the question isn't it?! Albeit that we're in spoiler zone, I can't say! Sue ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 19 Jan 2003 16:42:48 -0600 (CST) From: allenw Subject: Re: b/comments1/19 On Sun, 19 Jan 2003, Donald G. Keller wrote: > Bob: Good point about the coven asking for Giles on the phone (!! he > couldn't talk on the phone if he's incorporeal!!); they don't think he's > dead. They have a seer, so she must know what is actually the case. Hmm. > Except that that very same seer, in that very same call, didn't know *Eve* was dead (the call was to let Giles know Eve was in town), so her knowledge of Gile's status is questionable. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 19 Jan 2003 15:08:44 -0800 From: "marty" Subject: Re: b/comments1/19 > > Bob: Good point about the coven asking for Giles on the phone (!! he > > couldn't talk on the phone if he's incorporeal!!); they don't think he's > > dead. They have a seer, so she must know what is actually the case. Hmm. > > > Except that that very same seer, in that very same call, didn't know > *Eve* was dead (the call was to let Giles know Eve was in town), so > her knowledge of Gile's status is questionable. > And we know for sure that was the coven calling???? ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 19 Jan 2003 17:35:55 -0800 From: "Berni Phillips" Subject: Re: b/comments1/19 Two thoughts: 1) Regarding the age of a Slayer when she's called, I would guess that a Slayer can be called as late as her mid-twenties. The black Slayer in the 1970s who Spike killed (and took her leather coat) sure wasn't a teenager. We know that Buffy is unusual in her longevity as a Slayer, so I doubt that That '70s Slayer had been slaying for a decade. Perhaps they erred in casting such a mature-looking actress (in comparison to the others) or maybe it's to leave the possibilities open for the age range in SIT. 2) As I've said, I've been re-watching all the episodes, looking for Christian symbolism with the hopes of getting a paper out of it. I'm in season 6, but season 5's Glory is stuck in my mind. Maybe it's just because I'm currently taking a class on Christology (ways of looking at Jesus and what he was), but it seems to me that Glory can be seen as sort of parody of Jesus. The Council of Nicea determined that Jesus was fully human and fully divine. Glory was fully human when she was Ben and fully divine as Glory. (Let's hope she doesn't have a daddy who can resurrect her!) Both Jesus and Glory/Ben had two natures, but there, of course, the resemblance ends. Berni ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 19 Jan 2003 22:02:39 -0500 From: meredith Subject: a/faith on set Hi, If you want some MAJOR _Angel_ spoilers, look here for a report from the set of one of the episodes involving Eliza Dushku: http://www.scifi.com/scifiwire/art-main.html?2003-01/14/11.00.tv ============================================== Meredith Tarr New Haven, CT USA mailto:meth@smoe.org http://www.smoe.org/meth ============================================== Live At The House O'Muzak House Concert Series http://muzak.smoe.org NEXT UP: Holly Figueroa, 1/26/03 ============================================== ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 19 Jan 2003 19:56:45 -0800 From: "marty" Subject: Re: a/faith on set > If you want some MAJOR _Angel_ spoilers, look here for a report from the > set of one of the episodes involving Eliza Dushku: > > http://www.scifi.com/scifiwire/art-main.html?2003-01/14/11.00.tv Oh boy! Yes, major spoilers. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 19 Jan 2003 21:24:48 -0700 From: "Susan Kroupa" Subject: Re: b/comments1/19 Berni, have you seen the article about Christian symbolism in BUFFY in http://www.thedoormagazine.com/archives/buffy.html ? I found it very interesting. Sue - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Berni Phillips" To: Sent: Sunday, January 19, 2003 6:35 PM Subject: Re: b/comments1/19 > Two thoughts: > > 1) Regarding the age of a Slayer when she's called, I would guess that a > Slayer can be called as late as her mid-twenties. The black Slayer in the > 1970s who Spike killed (and took her leather coat) sure wasn't a teenager. > We know that Buffy is unusual in her longevity as a Slayer, so I doubt that > That '70s Slayer had been slaying for a decade. Perhaps they erred in > casting such a mature-looking actress (in comparison to the others) or maybe > it's to leave the possibilities open for the age range in SIT. > > 2) As I've said, I've been re-watching all the episodes, looking for > Christian symbolism with the hopes of getting a paper out of it. I'm in > season 6, but season 5's Glory is stuck in my mind. Maybe it's just because > I'm currently taking a class on Christology (ways of looking at Jesus and > what he was), but it seems to me that Glory can be seen as sort of parody of > Jesus. The Council of Nicea determined that Jesus was fully human and fully > divine. Glory was fully human when she was Ben and fully divine as Glory. > (Let's hope she doesn't have a daddy who can resurrect her!) Both Jesus and > Glory/Ben had two natures, but there, of course, the resemblance ends. > > Berni ------------------------------ End of stillpt-digest V5 #15 ****************************