From: owner-stillpt-digest@smoe.org (stillpt-digest) To: stillpt-digest@smoe.org Subject: stillpt-digest V4 #180 Reply-To: stillpt@smoe.org Sender: owner-stillpt-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-stillpt-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk stillpt-digest Thursday, December 19 2002 Volume 04 : Number 180 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: b/Bring on the Night ["marty" ] Re: b/Bring on the Night ["Susan Kroupa" ] Re: b/Bring on the Night ["Susan Kroupa" ] Re: b/Bring on the Night [Kathleen Dalton-Woodbury ] Re: b/Bring on the Night [Todd Huff ] Re: b/Bring on the Night [meredith ] b/a weird thought [meredith ] Re: b/Bring on the Night [Joseph Zitt ] Re: b/Bring on the Night [Joseph Zitt ] Re: b/a weird thought [Joseph Zitt ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 05:29:42 -0800 From: "marty" Subject: Re: b/Bring on the Night > Well, once again we get a doozy of an episode plopped in the middle of a > sea of reruns. Joss @ co. are truly evil. > > Todd posted: > > >(spoilers) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Did this episode seem disjointed to anybody else? From > >Annabelle running off to the fights there seemed to be > >some important stuff missing. > > The whole thing just seemed *off* ... and I can't shake the impression that > it was supposed to be that way, but maybe I'm just grasping at straws. The > folks at Mutant Enemy usually don't do some of the blatantly negligent > things that happened in this episode, namely: > I agree! > -- The American Slayer-in-training (was that Kennedy or Molly? I couldn't > tell who was who) flirting with Willow, and her reaction. I was hoping > more would come of that ... maybe in future episodes. I have heard there is a girlfriend in Willow's future. This may be a hint. > > -- The growing intrigue with Principal Wood. Is he a good guy, or isn't he? He lied to Buffy about the shovel, etc. Could he be a real Watcher? > >Kennedy was as gung > >ho as Faith, > > Anyone else notice that Faith was actually name-checked? :) > Yes, and completely vulnerable. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 08:25:42 -0700 From: "Susan Kroupa" Subject: Re: b/Bring on the Night From: "meredith" To: Sent: Tuesday, December 17, 2002 11:08 PM Subject: Re: b/Bring on the Night > > >(spoilers) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Did this episode seem disjointed to anybody else? From > >Annabelle running off to the fights there seemed to be > >some important stuff missing. > > The whole thing just seemed *off* ... and I can't shake the impression that > it was supposed to be that way, but maybe I'm just grasping at straws. The > folks at Mutant Enemy usually don't do some of the blatantly negligent > things that happened in this episode, namely: My question was this: did I miss an episode of Angel? There were two references to Angel--one that the First had tried to get him to commit suicide and the other that the First was after Faith. I thought I'd been watching carefully not to miss any episodes but was there one that contained either of those things? If so, arrrrrghhhhh! Sue ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 08:32:17 -0700 From: "Susan Kroupa" Subject: Re: b/Bring on the Night From: "meredith" To: Sent: Tuesday, December 17, 2002 11:08 PM Subject: Re: b/Bring on the Night > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And now let's take a look at the *really* weird bit: Giles' return. Did > anyone else get a "Sixth Sense" vibe from the whole thing? > > -- The last we saw of Giles, he was about to get his head chopped off by a > very large poleaxe. And now there he is, standing on Buffy's doorstep > looking none the worse for wear. > > -- Did anyone notice that he didn't touch anything or anyone? Taken next > to his specific assertion that the First only manifests as dead people, > that's setting off all sorts of alarm bells. And there was a specific reference to M. Night (however you spell his last name) when they talked about shutting the attackers in the pantry. Sue ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 09:08:46 -0700 From: Kathleen Dalton-Woodbury Subject: Re: b/Bring on the Night Spoiler space At 08:25 AM 12/18/02 -0700, Susan Kroupa wrote: >My question was this: did I miss an episode of Angel? There were two >references to Angel--one that the First had tried to get him to commit >suicide and the other that the First was after Faith. I thought I'd been >watching carefully not to miss any episodes but was there one that contained >either of those things? If so, arrrrrghhhhh! The episode where Buffy found the cave under the Christmas tree lot (another "Christmas" episode) was the one where Angel was haunted by people he'd killed--including Jenny (after he'd been brought back from 100 years in hell or whatever, right?) and was ready to stay out when the sun came up and die because of the guilt. The First was what brought him back, and haunted him, but SOMETHING ELSE sent the miraculous snowfall to keep the sun from shining on Angel and killing him. Is SOMETHING ELSE going to help Buffy and company this time, too? At 08:32 AM 12/18/02 -0700, Susan Kroupa wrote: >And there was a specific reference to M. Night (however you spell his last >name) when they talked about shutting the attackers in the pantry. That's referring to SIGNS, when the Mel Gibson went to the doctor's house (said doctor played by M. Night) and found the alien locked in the doctor's pantry. Of course, refering to M. Night also alludes to SIXTH SENSE and seeing dead people. The thing is, SIGNS is all about there being SOMEONE on our side and helping us against the evil that comes against us. Perhaps Giles is dead, but perhaps he's not a manifestation of the First.... Phaedre/Kathleen workshop@burgoyne.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 10:17:23 -0600 (CST) From: allenw Subject: Re: b/Bring on the Night On Wed, 18 Dec 2002, Susan Kroupa wrote: S P O I L E R S . . . . . > > My question was this: did I miss an episode of Angel? There were two > references to Angel--one that the First had tried to get him to commit > suicide and the other that the First was after Faith. I thought I'd been > watching carefully not to miss any episodes but was there one that contained > either of those things? If so, arrrrrghhhhh! > Susan, The First tried to get Angel to commit suicide back in "Amends", 3rd-season Buffy. And I think the First wanting to kill Faith was just a logical inference. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 07:39:25 -0800 (PST) From: Todd Huff Subject: Re: b/Bring on the Night > > >(spoilers) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My question was this: did I miss an episode of > Angel? There were two > references to Angel--one that the First had tried to > get him to commit > suicide and the other that the First was after > Faith. I thought I'd been > watching carefully not to miss any episodes but was > there one that contained > either of those things? If so, arrrrrghhhhh! > > Sue The First tried to get Angel to kill himself in the second season Buffy episode "Amends". It's the one which ends with the snowstorm in Sunnydale. It's the conclusion that Faith is a target because the First is going after the entire Slayer line, we haven't seen anything going on with her yet. Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 23:19:57 -0500 From: meredith Subject: Re: b/Bring on the Night Hi, Do we still need spoiler space at this point? Todd responded: >But wasn't that a fascinating glimpse of what was >apparently possessing her? I wonder if that's what the >First looks like (a lot like a Balrog!). It was fascinating, but it all came as a total shock. Which I suppose may have been the point, but still. (Speaking of Balrog, I just got back from seeing THE TWO TOWERS. I'm sure I'll be moved to post about that anon. :) >I tend to think this is just Joss playing with us. No >way could the First have traveled from Britain with at >least two of the Slayerettes (Kennedy seemed American) >without touching them, from waiting in line at the >airport to sitting next to them in the plane, etc. I wouldn't be so sure about that, but you do have a point. >This is interesting as well. Joyce only appeared when >Buffy was asleep, and when she dreams it's usually >prophetic (or good) in some way. Is this the First? >Why would the First want Buffy to get a good sleep? I wondered this too. Maybe it really is Joyce, trying to get a warning to Buffy. >I think we will. Annabelle was the very proper one who >died, Kennedy the one who was flirting with Willow, >and Molly the cockney lass. Ah okay, thanks for the clarification. :) Marty noted: > > Anyone else notice that Faith was actually name-checked? :) > > >Yes, and completely vulnerable. I would think she'd be pretty safe in prison, but I may be wrong. ============================================== Meredith Tarr New Haven, CT USA mailto:meth@smoe.org http://www.smoe.org/meth ============================================== Live At The House O'Muzak House Concert Series http://muzak.smoe.org NEXT UP: Holly Figueroa, 1/26/03 ============================================== ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 23:31:50 -0500 From: meredith Subject: b/a weird thought Hi, Something just occurred to me. This last episode was called "Bring On The Night". We've been discussing the "Sixth Sense" vibe in the episode ... and M. Night Shyamalan was name-checked in the aforementioned "Signs" reference. M. Night. "Bring On The Night". Things that make you go, "hmmm"... ============================================== Meredith Tarr New Haven, CT USA mailto:meth@smoe.org http://www.smoe.org/meth ============================================== Live At The House O'Muzak House Concert Series http://muzak.smoe.org NEXT UP: Holly Figueroa, 1/26/03 ============================================== ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 23:14:54 -0800 From: Joseph Zitt Subject: Re: b/Bring on the Night On Wed, 18 Dec 2002 23:19:57 -0500 meredith wrote: > Hi, > > Do we still need spoiler space at this point? > > > > > > > > > > > > > Marty noted: > > > > Anyone else notice that Faith was actually name-checked? :) > > > > >Yes, and completely vulnerable. > > I would think she'd be pretty safe in prison, but I may be wrong. My guess (having just finished watching the episode): Not unless she's in solitary. I suspect it wouldn't be too hard for the First to manifest inside the prison as someone who could drive one or more fellow inmates to kill her. - -- | jzitt@josephzitt.com http://www.josephzitt.com/ | | GPG: A4224EFA http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt/ | | == New book: Surprise Me with Beauty: the Music of Human Systems == | | Comma / Gray Code / VoiceWAVE Silence: the John Cage Discussion List | ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 23:20:43 -0800 From: Joseph Zitt Subject: Re: b/Bring on the Night On Wed, 18 Dec 2002 09:08:46 -0700 Kathleen Dalton-Woodbury wrote: > The First was what brought him back, and haunted him, but SOMETHING > ELSE sent the miraculous snowfall to keep the sun from shining on > Angel and killing him. > > Is SOMETHING ELSE going to help Buffy and company this time, too? I suspect that we haven't seen the last of the First Slayer. But other than that, the Buffyverse has been notably blurry on the sources of good within it. We had the Powers That Be on Angel for a while, and whatever it was that turned Cordy into a higher being, but I've always had the feeling that the two shows were out of sync on this, with the supernatural forces of good on Angel not being part of the Buffy scenario. This, however, shouldn't be so, especially in terms of the "it's not a cross-network crossover, really!" rumoured for later in the season. - -- | jzitt@josephzitt.com http://www.josephzitt.com/ | | GPG: A4224EFA http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt/ | | == New book: Surprise Me with Beauty: the Music of Human Systems == | | Comma / Gray Code / VoiceWAVE Silence: the John Cage Discussion List | ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 23:22:47 -0800 From: Joseph Zitt Subject: Re: b/a weird thought On Wed, 18 Dec 2002 23:31:50 -0500 meredith wrote: > This last episode was called "Bring On The Night". > > We've been discussing the "Sixth Sense" vibe in the episode ... and M. > Night Shyamalan was name-checked in the aforementioned "Signs" > reference. > > M. Night. "Bring On The Night". > > Things that make you go, "hmmm"... I was half-expecting that song to show up in the episode. Oh death, where is Sting? - -- | jzitt@josephzitt.com http://www.josephzitt.com/ | | GPG: A4224EFA http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt/ | | == New book: Surprise Me with Beauty: the Music of Human Systems == | | Comma / Gray Code / VoiceWAVE Silence: the John Cage Discussion List | ------------------------------ End of stillpt-digest V4 #180 *****************************