From: owner-stillpt-digest@smoe.org (stillpt-digest) To: stillpt-digest@smoe.org Subject: stillpt-digest V4 #140 Reply-To: stillpt@smoe.org Sender: owner-stillpt-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-stillpt-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk stillpt-digest Thursday, September 26 2002 Volume 04 : Number 140 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: b/Lessons ["Susan Kroupa" ] Re: b/Lessons [allenw ] Re: b/Lessons ["Marta Grabien" ] Re: b/Lessons ["Berni Phillips" ] Re: b/Lessons ["Berni Phillips" ] Re: b/Lessons [Todd Huff ] Re: b/Lessons [Joseph Zitt ] Re: b/Lessons [meredith ] Re: b/Lessons [Joseph Zitt ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2002 08:54:34 -0600 From: "Susan Kroupa" Subject: Re: b/Lessons Ah, To Serve Man--though I watched the episode twice I missed the reference both times. Sue - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joseph Zitt" To: Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2002 10:59 PM Subject: Re: b/Lessons > On Tue, 24 Sep 2002 22:23:29 -0400 (EDT) > "Donald G. Keller" wrote: > > > Help me. The new =Buffy= season begins with a patch of Middle Eastern > > music. (Is everyone here aware that I, political situation to the > > contrary notwithstanding, am overwhelmingly susceptible to Middle > > Eastern music?) Got things off to a perfect start. > > My silly thought was that they lost the soundtrack and had slapped in > some of the score from Firefly :-) > > > And what I > > suspect is a heartfelt but very oh-by-the-way tribute to Damon Knight > > tucked away in there. > > Yup -- though I wondered how Dawn might know about "To Serve Man". > > > My first sudden realization/speculation of the season: I think I know > > who the entity with Spike at the end is. Hint: "Amends." More later. > > Hm... off to double check the script archive. > > I was watching it with a friend who had never seen the show. I gave up > trying to explain that final scene until it was over. But I wonder if it > will point to a return to the issue of whether Buffy, and slayers in > general, have something demonic about them. I found the tossing-aside of > the problem last season a bit lame. > > The friend with whom I was watching, BTW, is a devout Christian. He was > curious that there seemed to be a complex demonology developed for the > show and wondered if there was any similar complexity to the forces of > Good. I couldn't think of any, and noticed that as curious. All the > could think of was The Powers That Be, who seemed to be kind of added on > to the Buffyverse for Angel. > > -- > | josephzitt@josephzitt.com http://www.josephzitt.com/ | > | http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt/ http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt/ | > | == New book: Surprise Me with Beauty: the Music of Human Systems == | > | Comma / Gray Code Silence: the John Cage Discussion List | ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2002 10:41:03 -0500 (CDT) From: allenw Subject: Re: b/Lessons On Tue, 24 Sep 2002, Joseph Zitt wrote: > On Tue, 24 Sep 2002 22:23:29 -0400 (EDT) > "Donald G. Keller" wrote: > > And what I > > suspect is a heartfelt but very oh-by-the-way tribute to Damon Knight > > tucked away in there. > > Yup -- though I wondered how Dawn might know about "To Serve Man". Twilight Zone marathons on the Sci-Fi Channel? ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2002 16:16:31 -0700 From: "Marta Grabien" Subject: Re: b/Lessons > > Yup -- though I wondered how Dawn might know about "To Serve Man". > Careful coaching from her big sis? ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2002 17:15:41 -0700 From: "Berni Phillips" Subject: Re: b/Lessons From: "Susan Kroupa" > Yes, it was fun and compelling and new-hair, new-soul Spike was very > different than what I was expecting. Marsters is sure a good actor! New hair? It struck me as a cross between the human William's longer curly brown hair and the bleached combed back hair of Spike. To tell the truth, I didn't recognize him at first. I disagree with Donald about "crazy, psychic" Spike. To me he seemed to be reacting as Fred did in her cave in the demon dimension. More like "overwhelmed, this is way too much for me to deal with" guy. I liked Xander looking so successful -- nice suit, nice car. Sad for Anya -- "If this is an intervention, why aren't all my demon friends here?" "They are." Berni ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2002 17:48:05 -0700 From: "Berni Phillips" Subject: Re: b/Lessons From: "Joseph Zitt" > > I was watching it with a friend who had never seen the show. I gave up > trying to explain that final scene until it was over. But I wonder if it > will point to a return to the issue of whether Buffy, and slayers in > general, have something demonic about them. I found the tossing-aside of > the problem last season a bit lame. I think that final scene was just to show newer viewers what the previous Big Bads have looked like. > The friend with whom I was watching, BTW, is a devout Christian. He was > curious that there seemed to be a complex demonology developed for the > show and wondered if there was any similar complexity to the forces of > Good. I couldn't think of any, and noticed that as curious. All the > could think of was The Powers That Be, who seemed to be kind of added on > to the Buffyverse for Angel. Since I'm watching with that in mind, I'd have to say no. I'm rewatching the whole series (I'm up to season 4) looking for Christian symbolism. The forces of good are very vague and not necessarily Christian. Christians, the few times when they are portrayed, are more bad than good. Think Ted and the woman who ran the home for delinquent children in "Where the Wild Things Are" -- she had tons of Christian religious images in her home -- and Ted prayed a very selfish and self-serving prayer at the dinner table in the Summers home. The most positive thing seen is Riley who just happened to be at the church which the vampires had taken over because he was going to church for services. Back to "Lessons," I haven't seen anyone mention that Joss himself was in this episode. In the coffee shop with the two singer/guitarists, that was definitely Joss. Does anyone know if the woman was his wife? She sings with him on the last track of the "Once More with Feeling" soundtrack. Berni ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2002 18:14:02 -0700 (PDT) From: Todd Huff Subject: Re: b/Lessons Just a thought on the final scene. The big bad took the form of many previous villains, but didn't _quite_ get the details right on them. Adam always called Spike "Spike", not "Number Seventeen" (or even his genuine designation of "Hostile Seventeen"). Warren only ever called Jonathon "Sparky". Also, I can't really see the Master using the word "schmuck". Nothing Joss writes ever seems to be insignificant, so I can't help but wonder if I'm just seeing something that isn't there or if this is a clue. New DSL Internet Access from SBC & Yahoo! http://sbc.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2002 18:54:15 -0700 From: Joseph Zitt Subject: Re: b/Lessons On Wed, 25 Sep 2002 18:14:02 -0700 (PDT) Todd Huff wrote: > The big bad took the form of many previous villains, > but didn't _quite_ get the details right on them. Adam > always called Spike "Spike", not "Number Seventeen" > (or even his genuine designation of "Hostile > Seventeen"). Warren only ever called Jonathon > "Sparky". Also, I can't really see the Master using > the word "schmuck". Well, I could believe the "Number Seventeen", mostly as a way to remind the viewers of the relationship between Adam and Spike. Unfortunately, I didn't catch some of the dialog -- due to odd aspects of living here, we have to keep the TV on rather quietly, and there was a lot of noisy traffic last night. And it's simply unconscionable that studiesinwords.de doesn't have transcripts online the moment that the episode ends :-) After reading other messages here, I read the script of "Amends", which I don't think I'd seen. Yup, seems like the same thing at work. Weirdly, I realize that the lacunae in my viewing are such that I've never seen an episode with Jenny Callendar (or the evil thingie in that episode that was disguised as her). Gotta catch up sometime... - -- | josephzitt@josephzitt.com http://www.josephzitt.com/ | | http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt/ http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt/ | | == New book: Surprise Me with Beauty: the Music of Human Systems == | | Comma / Gray Code Silence: the John Cage Discussion List | ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2002 22:07:46 -0400 From: meredith Subject: Re: b/Lessons Hi, Ah, new Buffy. Life is good again. Do we need spoiler space? Don commented: >Rupert Giles on a horse! (Sounds like some ancient imprecation, doesn't >it?) Hee! That was very cool. The scenes with Giles and Willow in England were wonderful, though I had to crank the volume up during both of them so I could understand what Giles was saying. (Did anyone else have this problem?) >Although I =will= note that that opening sequence was never followed up... Neither was the quick instant in "The Freshman" where we saw The Initiative for the first time. >And what I suspect is a heartfelt but very >oh-by-the-way tribute to Damon Knight tucked away in there. How stupid am I -- I was thinking it was a _Silver Chair_ reference. :} >My first sudden realization/speculation of the season: I think I know who >the entity with Spike at the end is. Hint: "Amends." More later. Hmmm. The First Evil again? Interesting thought. That last scene was a *corker*. I had read that all of the previous Big Bads would be back in the episode, but I fortuitously managed to forget about that while I was actually watching it, so when it occurred it knocked me for a loop. (How did Joss manage to get everybody back for that one scene?!) And Buffy delivering the last line, same as the first line ... gave me chills, it did. >Pop quiz: spot Dawn's two friends-to-be before she meets them. The boy was the one Buffy spotted with the basketball ... but I missed the girl. Guess I fail the quiz. :) Todd postulated: >Thoughts on the Principal? I don't get an evil vibe >from him. Maybe he does know more than he's letting on >and is glad to have the Slayer hanging around. > > >Real wild thought: he's from the Watcher's Council, >working behind the scenes. It'll be interesting to see >if he and Giles ever meet. Ooooh!!! I *really* hope you're right. That'd be great. Buffy The Guidance Counselor. The mind boggles. But at least she has a job! Berni pointed out: >Back to "Lessons," I haven't seen anyone mention that Joss himself was in >this episode. In the coffee shop with the two singer/guitarists, that was >definitely Joss. Does anyone know if the woman was his wife? She sings >with him on the last track of the "Once More with Feeling" soundtrack. I *thought* that looked a lot like Joss!! I would imagine that was probably his wife -- it would make sense. Speaking of whom, do we all know about the major article on Joss in this past weekend's New York Times Magazine? It should be available on nytimes.com all week. ============================================== Meredith Tarr New Haven, CT USA mailto:meth@smoe.org http://www.smoe.org/meth ============================================== Live At The House O'Muzak House Concert Series http://muzak.smoe.org NEXT UP: Annie Gallup, Saturday, 9/28 at 8 pm ============================================== ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Sep 2002 01:26:17 -0700 From: Joseph Zitt Subject: Re: b/Lessons On Wed, 25 Sep 2002 17:48:05 -0700 "Berni Phillips" wrote: > Since I'm watching with that in mind, I'd have to say no. I'm > rewatching the whole series (I'm up to season 4) looking for Christian > symbolism. The forces of good are very vague and not necessarily > Christian. Christians, the few times when they are portrayed, are > more bad than good. Think Ted and the woman who ran the home for > delinquent children in "Where the Wild Things Are" -- she had tons of > Christian religious images in her home -- and Ted prayed a very > selfish and self-serving prayer at the dinner table in the Summers > home. The most positive thing seen is Riley who just happened to be > at the church which the vampires had taken over because he was going > to church for services. On this note, check out the surprisingly thoughtful article (I thought it was going to be a gag) at http://www.thedoormagazine.com/buffy.html - -- | josephzitt@josephzitt.com http://www.josephzitt.com/ | | http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt/ http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt/ | | == New book: Surprise Me with Beauty: the Music of Human Systems == | | Comma / Gray Code Silence: the John Cage Discussion List | ------------------------------ End of stillpt-digest V4 #140 *****************************