From: owner-stillpt-digest@smoe.org (stillpt-digest) To: stillpt-digest@smoe.org Subject: stillpt-digest V4 #62 Reply-To: stillpt@smoe.org Sender: owner-stillpt-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-stillpt-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk stillpt-digest Thursday, May 9 2002 Volume 04 : Number 062 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: b/seeing red [allenw ] Re: b/seeing red ["Marta Grabien" ] Re: b/seeing red [Todd Huff ] Re: b/seeing red [GHighPine@aol.com] Re: b/seeing red ["David S. Bratman" ] Re: b/seeing red [Joseph Zitt ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 8 May 2002 07:35:28 -0500 (CDT) From: allenw Subject: Re: b/seeing red On Tue, 7 May 2002, David S. Bratman wrote: > At 10:41 PM 5/7/2002 , Gayle wrote: > > What no one has mentioned, that struck me right off, is the irony that > > this > >is surely the first time that we have ever seen a weapon as mundane as a gun > >used in Sunnydale (or even appear in the show). I almost thought they didn't > >exist in the Buffyverse -- otherwise, someone could have simply shot the > >Slayer a long time ago. The title reminds me too -- is this also the > >first time that we have seen blood outside of vampire bites? > That's a good point. But I expect the Slayer has healing properties > against guns, too. After all, at the start of this episode she was nearly > sliced in half by a buzz saw, and had nothing but a big bloody scar > (there's some non-vampirically-caused blood display for you) to show for it. > Not quite. Her red leather jacket was sliced, but Buffy wasn't, and there was no blood. I just went back and checked. As for guns, didn't Darla have one back in Season 1? Anya certainly had one in her apartment; the police-assassin-woman in the Great Slayer Hunt had one; and of course Spike had one when he went to kill Buffy (but ended up sitting on the steps with her). This *may* be the first time one's actually hit anything. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 May 2002 05:43:13 -0700 From: "Marta Grabien" Subject: Re: b/seeing red I don't think Buffy is dead. Remember, she came back changed. Spike can hurt her. Can't hurt anyone else. I think Johnathan will survive everything and still be going strong (Danny Strong) in the last show. He was in the first one and almost every one since then. I knew Tara would die. Firstly, Benson has lots of other irons in the fire and has stated she couldn't be on the show for much longer. I am really tired of Xander's nastyness. He just seems to spew more and more venom as he goes along. Hope he becomes a bit nicer next season. I saw the show after 17 hours of testing people, so I will wait and see it again in a day or so, when I recover. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 May 2002 07:24:14 -0700 (PDT) From: Todd Huff Subject: Re: b/seeing red - --- allenw wrote: > On Tue, 7 May 2002, David S. Bratman wrote: > > At 10:41 PM 5/7/2002 , Gayle wrote: > > > What no one has mentioned, that struck me > right off, is the irony that > > > this > > >is surely the first time that we have ever seen a > weapon as mundane as a gun > > >used in Sunnydale (or even appear in the show). > I almost thought they didn't > > >exist in the Buffyverse -- otherwise, someone > could have simply shot the > > >Slayer a long time ago. The title reminds me > too -- is this also the > > >first time that we have seen blood outside of > vampire bites? > > That's a good point. But I expect the Slayer has > healing properties > > against guns, too. After all, at the start of > this episode she was nearly > > sliced in half by a buzz saw, and had nothing but > a big bloody scar > > (there's some non-vampirically-caused blood > display for you) to show for it. > > > Not quite. Her red leather jacket was sliced, but > Buffy wasn't, and > there was no blood. I just went back and checked. > As for guns, didn't Darla have one back in Season > 1? Anya certainly had > one in her apartment; the police-assassin-woman in > the Great Slayer Hunt > had one; and of course Spike had one when he went to > kill Buffy (but ended > up sitting on the steps with her). > This *may* be the first time one's actually hit > anything. Yes, Darla tried to kill Buffy with a gun in Season One. Also, Adam came equipped with his own machine gun and Xander used one in the first Halloween episode when he became soldier-guy. The assassins in the Slayerfest episode ended up killing each other with their guns, and wasn't a gun used in the episode where Buffy and Angelus were possessed by the ghosts of old lovers at the high school? As far as the Andrew being gay thing goes, I don't think I suspected until last week when he made that remark about Spike. Yahoo! Health - your guide to health and wellness http://health.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 May 2002 11:28:28 EDT From: GHighPine@aol.com Subject: Re: b/seeing red In a message dated 5/7/02 11:30:19 PM Pacific Daylight Time, dbratman@stanford.edu writes: << If Willow does become a demon, >> I didn't mean literally a demon (which is why I put "vengeance demon" in quotes). She doesn't need to become a demon, after all; that would be redundant with the magic powers she has already. I meant it the way that it might be understood in ordinary English (like someone is a "vacuuming demon" when they are filled with furious energy to vacuum) but with the implication that some comparison would be drawn explicitly or implicitly with the vengeance demons who have that as their job. It's already been established, anyway, that the VDs can't take vengeance on their own behalf. Funny, I didn't notice blood from the buzz saw, I thought it just ruined her nice leather coat -- but that would be a good "framing" device for the episode, blood drawn at the beginning and the end by non-vampire instruments. About Buffy's being hit, something wil surely connect with her dying and coming back, but will it be 1) "no, don't bring me back again"; 2) this incident somehow demonstrates a change from her resurrection we/she didn't know about before (I don't thionk she could be unkillable, though, since THAT would take a lot of suspense from the show) or 3) something else? Gayle ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 08 May 2002 08:46:14 -0700 From: "David S. Bratman" Subject: Re: b/seeing red Has it been noticed how much Warren is "the man who was heavily into revenge"? He used his woman-catching superpowers to pick up and humiliate his old girlfriend. He used his invulnerability (a copy from the Mayor's book, but not as effective) to get back at a guy who picked on him in high school. (In both cases Jonathan and Andrew stand around looking exasperated.) His action at the end of this episode is not supernatural, but is quite in character. At 05:35 AM 5/8/2002 , Allen wrote: > Not quite. Her red leather jacket was sliced, but Buffy wasn't, and >there was no blood. I just went back and checked. Then what was what looked like a big bloody red scar? This wasn't a cut _in_ something red (her jacket), but a red cut. > As for guns, didn't Darla have one back in Season 1? Anya certainly had >one in her apartment; the police-assassin-woman in the Great Slayer Hunt >had one; and of course Spike had one when he went to kill Buffy (but ended >up sitting on the steps with her). > This *may* be the first time one's actually hit anything. The question of the deadliness of guns reminds me of the (in)famous end of the '70s British SF show "Blakes 7", in which the protagonists (heroes would be too questionable a word) are ambushed and go down in a hail of gunfire. This is a far-future, galaxy-spanning SF show, but guns still work. The producer was still hoping for a possible additional season at that point, and has been recorded as saying that the characters who survived this massacre would be those whose actors wanted to come back. As there never were more episodes, I guess they all died. At 05:43 AM 5/8/2002 , Marty wrote: >I knew Tara would die. Firstly, Benson has lots of other irons in the fire >and has stated she couldn't be on the show for much longer. Which not only is the strongest evidence that Tara is dead (much stronger than seeing her with a hole in her chest), it also provides by implication, YET AGAIN, the answer to the question which not only vexes the viewers but even vexes the characters: namely, why doesn't someone stake Spike? The answer is, of course, that they don't want James Marsters to leave the show. >I am really tired of Xander's nastyness. He just seems to spew more and more >venom as he goes along. Hope he becomes a bit nicer next season. I thought he was much less nasty this time, except to Warren. At 08:28 AM 5/8/2002 , Gayle wrote: > I didn't mean literally a demon (which is why I put "vengeance demon" in >quotes). She doesn't need to become a demon, after all; that would be >redundant with the magic powers she has already. I meant it the way that it >might be understood in ordinary English (like someone is a "vacuuming demon" >when they are filled with furious energy to vacuum) but with the implication >that some comparison would be drawn explicitly or implicitly with the >vengeance demons who have that as their job. It's already been established, >anyway, that the VDs can't take vengeance on their own behalf. Either way. Doesn't matter to my point, which is that if Willow really does go over the edge, I'll be mighty skeptical of any successful attempts to drag her back yet once again. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 May 2002 19:07:02 -0500 From: Joseph Zitt Subject: Re: b/seeing red On Wed, May 08, 2002 at 11:28:28AM -0400, GHighPine@aol.com wrote: > About Buffy's being hit, something wil surely connect with her dying and > coming back, but will it be 1) "no, don't bring me back again"; 2) this > incident somehow demonstrates a change from her resurrection we/she didn't > know about before (I don't thionk she could be unkillable, though, since THAT > would take a lot of suspense from the show) or 3) something else? Also, while I haven't gone back and freeze-framed, it looked to me that she was hit in the shoulder, which, wile damaging, probably wouldn't be life-threatening. - -- | jzitt@metatronpress.com http://www.josephzitt.com/ | | http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt/ http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt/ | | == New book: Surprise Me with Beauty: the Music of Human Systems == | | Comma / Gray Code Silence: the John Cage Discussion List | ------------------------------ End of stillpt-digest V4 #62 ****************************