From: owner-stillpt-digest@smoe.org (stillpt-digest) To: stillpt-digest@smoe.org Subject: stillpt-digest V4 #40 Reply-To: stillpt@smoe.org Sender: owner-stillpt-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-stillpt-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk stillpt-digest Wednesday, March 13 2002 Volume 04 : Number 040 Today's Subjects: ----------------- normal again??? ["Donald G. Keller" ] Re: normal again??? [Dawn Friedman ] Re: normal again??? [GHighPine@aol.com] Re: normal again??? ["David S. Bratman" ] Re: normal again??? [Joseph Zitt ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 22:54:47 -0500 (EST) From: "Donald G. Keller" Subject: normal again??? Well! - -->spoil space<-- - -->spoil space<-- - -->spoil space<-- - -->spoil space<-- Metafiction alert! I don't know about anybody else, but I thought that was possibly the best episode of the season. I was getting glimmers of Polanski's "Repulsion" as Buffy was "collecting" people. Fox just reran "Ted" a week ago Saturday, and when I saw the previews last Tuesday for tonight's episode, I flashed back to what Ted says to Buffy when he finds her diary: "I'm real, I'm not some goblin you made up in your diary. The psychiatrists have a word for this kind of thing...delusional. From now on you are going to do what I say when I say or I show this to your mother and you spend your best dating years behind the walls of a mental institution." !!! Given the big revelation tonight--that Buffy had been in an institution, if only for a few weeks, and never mentioned it--no =wonder= Buffy snapped, and "killed" Ted. And you have to wonder how far in advance Joss Whedon thinks..."Ted" is 2nd season, after all. I'm getting the feeling (from some disgruntled people on another list) that one of the keys to the episode is (as John Clute would say) decipherment: which "world" is real, Sunnydale? or the mental institution? And you realize they're leaving us hanging now until late April... (I was just in =stitches= when the doctor was explaining how Buffy had this delusional world set up where she was a superhero, etc. etc.!) My inclination (a very Jungian one, mind you) is to take Sunnydale as the base reality of the show; to accept the idea that the demon poisoned Buffy and caused her to have hallucinations (=very much= as the demon in "Hell's Bells" caused Xander to have hallucinations, but about the future, not the past--Joss Whedon does leave clues in the form of parallels about how to "read" things); and that--here's the key point--Buffy, being the Slayer, who has prophetic dreams with "spirit-guides" (as I went on about in my essay in that damned book that hasn't appeared yet), got a message from her dream-mother that she needed to believe in herself, and took the message to heart, and reaffirmed her hero status. (There are parallels, also, to be thought about between this and "The Weight of the World," the one where Buffy is catatonic and Willow has to snap her out of it.) The ending of the episode is very ambiguous on the "reality" question; but my guess is we were just given closure (a tragic ending) on what was =no more than= a possible alternate reality like "The Wish." Assuming we're still taking Sunnydale seriously...I think things bottomed out last week, and things are starting, very gradually, to look up: Dawn seems to be doing a little better, Willow and Tara may be breaking the ice again a little, Buffy might have regained her stability, Xander got his head together...not that they don't all have a lot to go through still. Re the Trio, increased friction between Warren and Jonathan noted... And they've =also= left us hanging on the whole Anya matter: will she be a demon again? (Probably.) No Emma Caulfield this week, note. It may have escaped notice that I never took the opportunity to join the discussion about "Hell's Bells." And I'm not, now, going to try to address specific points. Basically, I was pretty stunned that the wedding didn't happen; I had assumed (and not alone, I don't think) that it was a basically comic episode, pratfalls and obstacles but in the end happily...well, not ever after, but at least for the week. No such luck. I need to watch it again, and go back over people's comments. And watch this last one at =least= one more time. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 23:36:25 -0500 From: Dawn Friedman Subject: Re: normal again??? At 10:54 PM 3/12/2002 -0500, Don wrote: >Well! > >-->spoil > >space<-- > >-->spoil > >space<-- > >-->spoil > >space<-- > >-->spoil > >space<-- > > >Metafiction alert! > >I don't know about anybody else, but I thought that was possibly the best >episode of the season. And it may have been the most painful (in a goodfic way), which, this season, is saying a *lot*. >Given the big revelation tonight--that Buffy had been in an institution, >if only for a few weeks, and never mentioned it--no =wonder= Buffy >snapped, and "killed" Ted. Good point. >[...]Buffy, being the >Slayer, who has prophetic dreams with "spirit-guides" (as I went on about >in my essay in that damned book that hasn't appeared yet), got a message >from her dream-mother that she needed to believe in herself, and took the >message to heart, and reaffirmed her hero status. I'm with you on this one. It's the most Jossish of interpretations. >The ending of the episode is very ambiguous on the "reality" question; but >my guess is we were just given closure (a tragic ending) on what was =no >more than= a possible alternate reality like "The Wish." When we see that scene, Buffy is still under the influence of the poison, holding herself together until the antidote is ready. Therefore the other universe still exists, if only in her poisoned mind, and she's aware of the grief her dream-mother must feel. Have I mentioned how much this episode hurt? Is there anyone out there who hasn't had dreams where they're reunited with someone they love, suspecting even in the dream that this can't be real, and wishing there was some way to keep from waking up? Dawn ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 00:05:50 EST From: GHighPine@aol.com Subject: Re: normal again??? One very significant throwaway line was what the doctor said about Buffy having briefly awakened or returned to reality or something like that last summer. Last summer. When she was dead and in heaven. Gayle ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 22:55:54 -0800 From: "David S. Bratman" Subject: Re: normal again??? At 07:54 PM 3/12/2002 , DGK wrote: >Well! > >-->spoil > >space<-- > >-->spoil > >space<-- > >-->spoil > >space<-- > >-->spoil > >space<-- > > >Metafiction alert! > >I don't know about anybody else, but I thought that was possibly the best >episode of the season. Yes indeed. And I agree with Dawn, and Berni agrees even more: this was the most painful of the season, even more so than last week, and that's saying quite a lot. Yet it wasn't wincingly painful: the only embarrassing part was Willow practicing her pickup lines. >Given the big revelation tonight--that Buffy had been in an institution, >if only for a few weeks, and never mentioned it--no =wonder= Buffy >snapped, and "killed" Ted. > >And you have to wonder how far in advance Joss Whedon thinks..."Ted" is >2nd season, after all. Yes you do. Does the institution story fit into what we already know of Buffy's past? >I'm getting the feeling (from some disgruntled people on another list) >that one of the keys to the episode is (as John Clute would say) >decipherment: which "world" is real, Sunnydale? or the mental institution? That is a puzzlement, but not the way you may think: it's more the way they plant the clues. This is another one of those mind games played by the Nemesises, they say they're plotting one, they comment on it after it starts to happen. It's not entirely explicit that this was caused by them, but that wasn't the case in the earlier cases either. The Nemesises aren't being watched by Buffy: this world has got to be _a_ "real" world. What's puzzling in that case is the final shot, which leaves you in Doctor-World. I think that's misdirection, or at most that both worlds are real at once. (Alternate universes, very old sfnal trick, and an old BTVS trick, too: Dopplegangerland was one.) No matter how clever he is about it, I don't think Joss is about to pull a "Dallas". But what is real? Sunnydale isn't really real, after all: it's a tv show. How metafictional are we going to get here? >(I was just in =stitches= when the doctor was explaining how Buffy had >this delusional world set up where she was a superhero, etc. etc.!) Yeah, and I also noticed the comment that Gayle observed, his reference to Buffy's period of death. But it's got to be more complex than a simple recovery, as "recovering in a mental institution" doesn't fit Buffy's description of heaven. When the doctor and parents kept telling Buffy she had to free herself from those phantom characters she kept relying on, methought they did protest too much. >My inclination (a very Jungian one, mind you) is to take Sunnydale as the >base reality of the show; to accept the idea that the demon poisoned >Buffy and caused her to have hallucinations (=very much= as the demon in >"Hell's Bells" caused Xander to have hallucinations, etc. Yes, I see the clues pointing that it's to be read that way. >And they've =also= left us hanging on the whole Anya matter: will she be a >demon again? (Probably.) No Emma Caulfield this week, note. We're guessing not. But I did note, before this episode started, that I wouldn't be surprised if that was held over for a while. Remember the firing of Giles, where again a major plot point was raised at the end of an episode and was simply left hanging for a week, quite audaciously. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 02:41:35 -0600 From: Joseph Zitt Subject: Re: normal again??? On Tue, Mar 12, 2002 at 10:55:54PM -0800, David S. Bratman wrote: > At 07:54 PM 3/12/2002 , DGK wrote: > >Well! > > > >-->spoil > > > >space<-- > > > >-->spoil > > > >space<-- > > > >-->spoil > > > >space<-- > > > >-->spoil > > > >space<-- > > > > > >Metafiction alert! > > > >I don't know about anybody else, but I thought that was possibly the best > >episode of the season. > > Yes indeed. And I agree with Dawn, and Berni agrees even more: this was > the most painful of the season, even more so than last week, and that's > saying quite a lot. Yet it wasn't wincingly painful: the only embarrassing > part was Willow practicing her pickup lines. I agree, Very different from the other best, "Once More, with Feeling", but quite amazing. > >Given the big revelation tonight--that Buffy had been in an institution, > >if only for a few weeks, and never mentioned it--no =wonder= Buffy > >snapped, and "killed" Ted. > > > >And you have to wonder how far in advance Joss Whedon thinks..."Ted" is > >2nd season, after all. > > Yes you do. Does the institution story fit into what we already know of > Buffy's past? And it would be worth revisiting the episodes in which Buffy "came out" to her mother as the Slayer. Did the performers know that this was in the characters' past? If this weren't the first time that Buffy had started in on the whole vampire trip, it might get a whole different buncha reactions than if it were. > What's puzzling in that case is the final shot, which leaves you in > Doctor-World. I think that's misdirection, or at most that both worlds are > real at once. (Alternate universes, very old sfnal trick, and an old BTVS > trick, too: Dopplegangerland was one.) No matter how clever he is about > it, I don't think Joss is about to pull a "Dallas". > > But what is real? Sunnydale isn't really real, after all: it's a tv > show. How metafictional are we going to get here? I got the feeling that perhaps both were real with, indeed, the whole alternate universe thing involved. I also found myself torn, both wanting Buffy to get better in the Sunnydale reality and to get better and rejoin her family in the other world. Her need to choose was harrowing. I was reminded a lot of various Twilight Zone and Night Gallery episodes. And also of "The Jet-Propelled Couch", the first section of Robert Lindner's "The 50 Minute Hour: : A Collection of True Psychoanalytic Tales", in which a scientist was continually drawn away from the real world by the superhero science-fiction world in his head. (I recall that this was reputed to have been the man who wrote under the name Cordwainer Smith, but it has been decades since I read it.) I know that on a lot of days I resist waking up, since the world I dream is in a lot of ways more interesting and convincing than my everyday existence... > >(I was just in =stitches= when the doctor was explaining how Buffy had > >this delusional world set up where she was a superhero, etc. etc.!) > > Yeah, and I also noticed the comment that Gayle observed, his reference to > Buffy's period of death. But it's got to be more complex than a simple > recovery, as "recovering in a mental institution" doesn't fit Buffy's > description of heaven. OTOH, if the institution were real, it might make sense for the the Institution Buffy to have fabricated a memory of a timeless pleasant near-nothingness to cover the gap in which she wasn't busy maintaining and generating this internal Buffyverse. > We're guessing not. But I did note, before this episode started, that I > wouldn't be surprised if that was held over for a while. Remember the > firing of Giles, where again a major plot point was raised at the end of an > episode and was simply left hanging for a week, quite audaciously. BTW, this was this first episode where Xander really came across, IMO, as a real grownup, rather than a big kid playing grownup. - -- | jzitt@metatronpress.com http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt | | New book: Surprise Me with Beauty: the Music of Human Systems | | http://www.metatronpress.com/nj/smwb.html | | Latest CDs: Collaborations/ All Souls http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt | | Comma: Voices of New Music Silence: the John Cage Discussion List | ------------------------------ End of stillpt-digest V4 #40 ****************************