From: owner-stillpt-digest@smoe.org (stillpt-digest) To: stillpt-digest@smoe.org Subject: stillpt-digest V3 #188 Reply-To: stillpt@smoe.org Sender: owner-stillpt-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-stillpt-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk stillpt-digest Thursday, November 29 2001 Volume 03 : Number 188 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: b/Wrecked ["Susan Kroupa" ] Re: b/Wrecked [allenw ] Re: b/Wrecked [Micole Sudberg ] Re: b/Wrecked ["Susan Kroupa" ] Re: b/Wrecked ["David S. Bratman" ] Re: b/Wrecked [Dawn Friedman ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 09:12:22 -0800 From: "Susan Kroupa" Subject: Re: b/Wrecked Yeah, the addiction metaphor was definitely heavy (but Joss has never been subtle about his metaphors--it's one of the things that makes Buffy fun), but I still thought this was one of the truly scary episodes of the show. By the time Willow and Dawn were in the car, I was good and frightened along with Dawn. And the pairing of Willow's obvious addiction with Buffy's hidden one in the final conversation between them was elegant writing, imo. Sue - ----- Original Message ----- From: David S. Bratman To: Sent: Tuesday, November 27, 2001 9:31 PM Subject: Re: b/Wrecked > Can you say "metaphor for drug addiction"? I knew you could. > > SMG looks like somebody else in that high-necked black sweater and hoop > earrings. Somebody older. But I can't think of whom. > > I know what would have been a good title for this episode. How about ... > "Bad Girls"? And I think we're at a similar crux point in this > season. I'm wondering what Todd is wondering: is anyone else reminded of > certain points in the history of Faith? > > And who is J.D. Peralta? ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 10:01:12 -0600 (CST) From: allenw Subject: Re: b/Wrecked > ----- Original Message ----- > From: David S. Bratman > To: > Sent: Tuesday, November 27, 2001 9:31 PM > Subject: Re: b/Wrecked > > > And who is J.D. Peralta? > Marti Noxon's assistant. Died recently from cancer. Nice person, by all accounts. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 11:17:38 -0500 From: Micole Sudberg Subject: Re: b/Wrecked At 09:12 AM 11/28/01 -0800, Susan Kroupa wrote: >Yeah, the addiction metaphor was definitely heavy (but Joss has never been >subtle about his metaphors--it's one of the things that makes Buffy fun), >but I still thought this was one of the truly scary episodes of the show. >By the time Willow and Dawn were in the car, I was good and frightened along >with Dawn. > >And the pairing of Willow's obvious addiction with Buffy's hidden one in the >final conversation between them was elegant writing, imo. Eh. I expect more from *Buffy* than *Reefer Madness II*. The problem with this metaphor isn't just that it's heavy-handed (although it is), it's that it loses the emotional resonance of the Dark Willow arc. The frightening thing about Willow's descent hasn't been magic-as-physical-addiction (which hasn't been until "Wrecked"); it's been seeing Willow act utterly in character in using magic to evade difficult emotional consequences. That idea was completely lost last night. And Buffy's not addicted. *She* thinks she is, but she has a history of inappropriate emotional projection. She's using Spike to escape emotional numbness and to take out the anger she won't direct at her friends. She isn't hurting anyone but herself and Spike: she stayed out too late one night when she had every reason to believe another responsible adult would be home, she hasn't used Spike to hunt out the Tiny Kings but no one is taking them very seriously, and she went to Spike when she was afraid Dawn was in danger. Her problem is, in many ways, the inverse of Willow's: Willow wants to be Super!Willow and Buffy doesn't want to accept being anything but plain Buffy. And as a minor note, if that was the most perverse, degrading experience of Spike's unlife, I'm severely disappointed in Angelus, Darla, and Drusilla. - -- Micole Sudberg micole@aya.yale.edu mobile: 646.245.3822 home: 212.396.9785 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 10:01:19 -0800 From: "Susan Kroupa" Subject: Re: b/Wrecked I agree about Buffy--worrying over her own possible addiction--while she's still acting responsibly most of the time. Still, I liked the final conversation for its subtext. Maybe I found the ep truly scary because I've lost a brother to drugs and have my niece, his daughter, living with us now, after she was diagnosed as an alcoholic at age 15. Monsters aren't real to me; this kind of danger is. And I've never seen Reefer Madness!:) Sue - ----- Original Message ----- From: Micole Sudberg To: Sent: Wednesday, November 28, 2001 8:17 AM Subject: Re: b/Wrecked > At 09:12 AM 11/28/01 -0800, Susan Kroupa wrote: > >Yeah, the addiction metaphor was definitely heavy (but Joss has never been > >subtle about his metaphors--it's one of the things that makes Buffy fun), > >but I still thought this was one of the truly scary episodes of the show. > >By the time Willow and Dawn were in the car, I was good and frightened along > >with Dawn. > > > >And the pairing of Willow's obvious addiction with Buffy's hidden one in the > >final conversation between them was elegant writing, imo. > > Eh. I expect more from *Buffy* than *Reefer Madness II*. > > The problem with this metaphor isn't just that it's heavy-handed (although > it is), it's that it loses the emotional resonance of the Dark Willow arc. > The frightening thing about Willow's descent hasn't been > magic-as-physical-addiction (which hasn't been until "Wrecked"); it's been > seeing Willow act utterly in character in using magic to evade difficult > emotional consequences. That idea was completely lost last night. > > And Buffy's not addicted. *She* thinks she is, but she has a history of > inappropriate emotional projection. She's using Spike to escape emotional > numbness and to take out the anger she won't direct at her friends. She > isn't hurting anyone but herself and Spike: she stayed out too late one > night when she had every reason to believe another responsible adult would > be home, she hasn't used Spike to hunt out the Tiny Kings but no one is > taking them very seriously, and she went to Spike when she was afraid Dawn > was in danger. Her problem is, in many ways, the inverse of Willow's: > Willow wants to be Super!Willow and Buffy doesn't want to accept being > anything but plain Buffy. > > And as a minor note, if that was the most perverse, degrading experience of > Spike's unlife, I'm severely disappointed in Angelus, Darla, and Drusilla. > -- > > Micole Sudberg > micole@aya.yale.edu > mobile: 646.245.3822 > home: 212.396.9785 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 08:49:14 -0800 From: "David S. Bratman" Subject: Re: b/Wrecked What Micole said. The whole Willow-&-Dawn sequence was el primo stupido. I'll agree with Susan, though, that the final scene was well-written, but one expects no less. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 12:38:54 -0500 From: Dawn Friedman Subject: Re: b/Wrecked At 11:17 AM 11/28/01 -0500, Micole wrote: >Eh. I expect more from *Buffy* than *Reefer Madness II*. I have to agree with this. It pulled me along while I was watching, despite mutinous thoughts -- I think Todd must be right about Alyson's acting; she's shown us progressive levels of devastation in each episode -- but afterwards I felt cheated, and for precisely this reason: >The frightening thing about Willow's descent hasn't been >magic-as-physical-addiction (which hasn't been until "Wrecked"); it's been >seeing Willow act utterly in character [...] Anyone can get stoned on anything and have a car accident. It could have happened to Willow back in "Something Blue" if her friends hadn't stopped her drinking (though of course she wouldn't have had Dawn with her.) And I just don't see Willow giving some sleazy guy power over her. She scorned Giles' advice because she had so much faith in her own powers, but accepted that this lowlife's magic was better than what she could manage herself? That isn't her way. She was growing addicted to her own power, not anyone else's. I believed in her initial uneasiness; I could believe that she could be tricked into staying once; I definitely believed in her morning shower-and-cry ritual; but I can't see anything but a powerful spell imposed from outside getting her to go back again, and an imposition from outside ruins the point. >And Buffy's not addicted. *She* thinks she is, but she has a history of >inappropriate emotional projection. She's using Spike to escape emotional >numbness and to take out the anger she won't direct at her friends. She >isn't hurting anyone but herself and Spike: Agreed -- which is why we wondered at one point whether it was Spike she was thinking of in connection with "hurting the ones we love." I'm not sure the text supports it, but her expression... perhaps SMG and Buffy are having a difference of opinion about Buffy's feelings . >And as a minor note, if that was the most perverse, degrading experience of >Spike's unlife, I'm severely disappointed in Angelus, Darla, and Drusilla. Awww. He was just returning her compliment. Dawn ------------------------------ End of stillpt-digest V3 #188 *****************************