From: owner-stillpt-digest@smoe.org (stillpt-digest) To: stillpt-digest@smoe.org Subject: stillpt-digest V3 #81 Reply-To: stillpt@smoe.org Sender: owner-stillpt-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-stillpt-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk stillpt-digest Wednesday, May 9 2001 Volume 03 : Number 081 Today's Subjects: ----------------- OT: 'Tis Fortinbras! [allenw ] b/toughlove ["Donald G. Keller" ] b/meredith's dream ["Donald G. Keller" ] b/alternate buffys ["Donald G. Keller" ] Re: b/alternate buffys ["David S. Bratman" ] Re: b/toughlove ["David S. Bratman" ] Re: b/toughlove [Todd Huff ] b/one word: "truck!" [meredith ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 8 May 2001 09:21:29 -0500 (CDT) From: allenw Subject: OT: 'Tis Fortinbras! This just passed through my inbox, and it's *almost* on-topic... - -Allen === This recently discovered folio edition of "Hamlet" follows other known versions closely until Act V, Scene II, where it begins to diverge at line 232, as will be seen: KING ...`Now the king drinks to Hamlet.' Come, begin, And you the judges, bear a wary eye. Trumpets sound. HAMLET and LAERTES take their stations. HAMLET: Come on, sir. LAERTES: Come, my lord. Enter FRED, DAPHNE, VELMA, SHAGGY, and SCOOBY. DAPHNE: Wait! SHAGGY: Stop the fight! HAMLET and LAERTES put up their foils. KING: I like this not. Say wherefore you do speak? FRED: Good lord, I pray thee, let thy anger wait. For we, in seeking clues, have found the truth behind the strange events of latter days. VELMA: The first clue came from Elsinore's high walls, where, so said Hamlet, Hamlet's ghost did walk. Yet though the elder Hamlet met his death, and perforce hath been buried in the ground, 'tis yet true one would not expect a ghost to carry mud upon his spectral boots. Yet mud didst Shaggy and his faithful hound espy, with footprints leading to a drop. This might, at first, indeed bespeak a ghost... Until, when I did seek for other answers, I found a great, wide cloth of deepest black Discarded in the moat of Elsinore. 'Tis clear, the "ghost" used this to slow his fall while darkness rendered him invisible. FRED: The second clue we found, my lord, was this. KING: It seems to me a portrait of my brother in staine'd glass, that sunlight may shine through. FRED: But see, my lord, when placed before a lantern-- KING: My brother's ghost! HAMLET: My father! VELMA: Nay, his image. FRED: In sooth, that image caught the Prince's eye when he went to confront his lady mother. Nor did his sword pierce poor Polonius. ForHamlet's blade did mark the castle wall behind the rent made in the tapestry. Polonius was murdered by another. The knife which killed him entered from behind. LAERTES: But who? FRED: Indeed my lords, that you shall see. HAMLET: And if this ghost was naught but light and air, then what of that which I did touch and speak to? The GHOST enters. GHOST: Indeed, my son. SHAGGY: Zoinks! DAPHNE: Jenkies! GHOST: Mark them not. Thou hast neglected duty far too long. Shall this, my murderer, live on unharmed? Must I remain forever unavenged? SCOOBY and SHAGGY run away from the GHOST. SCOOBY, looking backward, runs into a tapestry, tearing it down. As a result, tapestries around the walls collapse, one surrounding the GHOST. GHOST: What? FRED: Good Osric, pray restrain that "ghost", that we may reach the bottom of the matter. Now let us see who truly walked tonight. FRED removes the helm and the disguise from the GHOST'S face. ALL: Tis Fortinbras! FRED: The valiant prince of Norway! FORTINBRAS: Indeed it is, and curses on you all! This Hamlet's father brought my own to death, and cost me all my rightful heritage. And so I killed this king, and hoped his son would prove no obstacle to Norway's crown. Then Claudius bethought himself the killer (As if one might be poisoned through the ear!) The brother, not the son, took Denmark's throne, and held to Norway with a tighter grip. I swore an end to Denmark's royal house. I spoke to Hamlet of his uncle's crimes. Then killed Polonius to spark Laertes. This day, with poison's aid, all might have died, and Denmark might have come to me as well as my beloved Norway and revenge. My scheme blinded them all, as if by fog but for these medd'ling kids and this, their dog. KING: The villain stands confessed. Now let us go. For much remains to us to be discussed and suitable reward must needs be found for these, our young detectives and their hound. EXEUNT OMNES. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 May 2001 18:33:00 -0400 (EDT) From: "Donald G. Keller" Subject: b/toughlove It's been a strange week. Because my fave performer Kristeen Young chose Tuesday nights in May at 8 p.m.(!! she did this last year as well) for her first shows of the year, I'm on tape delay for the nonce (last week, this week, and next week at least). As a result I didn't watch last week's episodes until the VCR clicked off at 10 p.m., and then my week got crazy, and when I wasn't working overnight or sleeping it off I found myself strangely reluctant to watch the =Buffy= episode a second time; very heavy emotionally, I guess...but that didn't prevent me from rewatching "The Body" and "Forever." Can't account for it. Anyway, I finally did rewatch "Tough Love" this morning, and here follow a few comments. Not basically a funny episode, of course, but I did like the little joke about "haiku" sounding like a sneeze, and Anya's comment about the "us of A" (U.S.A.) had me on the floor. Many people, I think, had assumed that Giles would step in and take over official father-figure for Buffy and Dawn; the fact that he explicitly refuses I think makes the situation much more interesting. (By the way, did I really hear SMG say--twice--"figger," that is the British pronunciation of "figure"?) More reality-check with the scene in the principal's office, and then the Buffy & Dawn scene where the repercussions are discussed. (I anticipated Buffy's line "I just did.") I think Buffy didn't tell Dawn at first because she would have preferred to not threaten her, but Dawn didn't allow that kindness. Buffy sure did go overboard with her "tough love," though. And it's interesting (does it follow legal guidelines?) that a 20-year-old is even considered as legal guardian for a 14- year-old. Probably the most important scene in the entire episode is the argument between Tara and Willow. Meredith is on record as finding it "Dadaist," and in part that was my initial reaction: "how did they get from point A to point B?" But the rest of my reaction was to actually =admire= the scene for its realism: I've certainly had arguments like that. There is a clear emotional logic to it, however; and the preparation goes back some way. Think on Willow's cranky "Slayers Only" speech in "Consequences," where she felt that Buffy and Faith were shutting her out. And her snappish reactions in "Something Blue" where she felt everyone was expecting her to "behave" herself. Willow spent many years as a nerd, feeling excluded and ostracized; it's still a hot button for her (see her reaction to Percy calling her a nerd in "Doomed," and the burden of her dream in "Restless"). And when it's her nearest and dearest who exclude/ostracize her (Buffy her best friend in "Consequences," Buffy, Xander, =and= Giles in "Something Blue"), it's one of the few things that makes her really angry. Add to this just a scene or so earlier in "Tough Love" where Buffy, overdoing her strictness, tells Willow that she can't possibly understand, thus raising the red flag again. And on the other side of the argument, there is Tara's still-strong feelings of inadequacy and her doubt about whether she really belongs in the Scooby Gang. So Willow was already, I think, seething when she and Tara began their talk; and in the course of the discussion it seems to me that Tara made several tactical errors: 1) She in all innocence took Buffy's side and reiterated the fact that Willow can't understand, her still having a mother after all; and her backpedaling didn't take away the sting Willow clearly felt. 2) When Willow wanted to drop the discussion Tara pushed the point, because her inadequate feelings made her unwilling to leave the situation unresolved. 3) She said that Willow frightened her; which Willow took as a) a rebuke to her practicing witchcraft (which was also part of the "Something Blue" situation) b) as a signal that Tara was drawing away from her (ostracizing/excluding again). 4) She repeated her fear of not fitting into Willow's life. 5) Getting a little vexed herself, she replied "Should I?" to Willow's suggestion she expected Willow to go back to "boys' town." But all this said, it was Willow who took the argument and ran with it; she made two huge interpretive leaps (very Freudian ones, too), one that Tara's fear meant Tara didn't trust her (and even at the time I thought Tara's line "I trust you with my life!" was both poignant and ominous), and the other that Tara's apprehension about whether she fit in Willow's life meant she doubted Willow's commitment (to her, and to women in general). I don't think Tara meant any such thing, either time. A very unfortunate, dismaying argument, of course; but I think upon reflection that it was 1) well-prepared for 2) emotionally consistent with the characters 3) well-written in the way, as I said, that it =seemed= out of left field and to that degree highly realistic. In the following scene in the magic shop, it's not clear from first viewing (and in fact on second viewing I rewound a bit to doublecheck), but while Giles is trying to mollify Willow, he hears the minion rustling behind the door, which leads him to open it and close it again quickly, knocking him out. And nice bit of Ripper coming out when he threatens the creature. Really intense scene with Glory and Tara. David: I don't think anyone on this list has cast doubt on Clare Kramer's acting ability, but some friends of mine off-list have, which is why I brought it up. I thought Kramer was really nicely menacing in this scene. Very good scene with Dawn and Spike, as usual. ("Rot.") And yes, he did call her "platelet." I think that Buffy and Dawn were visiting Willow and Tara's dorm room at the end; there was an establishing shot of the dorm just before it. But here's the odd thing. In "The Body" they're clearly on the second floor; when Glory busts out the window, however, she seems to be standing on level ground, meaning it was a first-floor room. ?? I had =completely= forgotten that people Glory has brainsucked see through Dawn. Sure made for a chilling cliffhanger for the episode. (Anybody else feeling that this has been a really long season? Can it be possible this same season began with "Buffy vs. Dracula"? Seems like the characters have been put through even more changes than is usual in a season.) Only a few hours until a new one... ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 May 2001 18:35:38 -0400 (EDT) From: "Donald G. Keller" Subject: b/meredith's dream Meredith: Even Freud could interpret your Joss Whedon dream correctly. (Jungian Arrogance Alert!) You think about him, consciously or unconsciously, the same way you do about other artists you admire (mostly musicians) whom you actually do know and speak to on a semi-regular basis (and the fact that you and he are Wesleyan alums makes a rapport that much more likely). Plus, you know his style well enough from interviews that your dream-Joss speaks plausibly like the real one. I have some confidence in this interpretation because I think about him much the same way and I suspect if I dreamed about him it would be along similar lines. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 May 2001 18:38:18 -0400 (EDT) From: "Donald G. Keller" Subject: b/alternate buffys David: Good points about the Robot Buffy episode. It's true we had plenty of Faithful Robot (love the term!) in "I Was Made to Love You," but in the balance we got more of the other robot and less of Robot Buffy, and I wish the proportion had been reversed, simply because I was enjoying SMG's performance so much. And it =was= a striking performance, and she was very careful to distinguish between Buffy and Robot Buffy, and as you say the last scene with Spike was a third thing entirely. I had noticed before that the show had had a lot of fun setting up situations where a Spike and Buffy romance could be played out, even if not "for real": in "Something Blue," of course, and Faith-as-Buffy in "Who Are You," and Spike's dream in whatever episode it was, and now Robot Buffy, which as you said makes four times. Expanding on this point just a little, there have been a surprising number of times when we have gotten "alternate Buffys," where SMG has had to play what is at least a =slightly= different character to be distinguished from Buffy (not counting the highly variable moods we recognize as parts of Buffy's base personality, whiny to menacing being one axis thereof): Aristocrat Buffy in "Halloween" Feral Buffy in "The Wish" Engaged Buffy in "Something Blue" "Betty" Buffy in "Superstar" Faith-as-Buffy in "Who Are You" Robot Buffy in "Intervention" And I may have forgotten one or two. (Aristocrat Buffy is probably SMG's least convincing moment in the whole series--the accent just doesn't work.) One of the distinguishing marks, by the way, in the last four on the list, is that she pronounces "Spike" with a different emotional emphasis--from each other and from Buffy's pissed- off usual--in each one. And slightly different again in the last scene of "Intervention." A job well-done. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 08 May 2001 16:27:32 -0700 From: "David S. Bratman" Subject: Re: b/alternate buffys At 03:38 PM 5/8/2001 , DGK wrote: >Expanding on this point just a little, there have been a >surprising number of times when we have gotten "alternate >Buffys," where SMG has had to play what is at least a >=slightly= different character to be distinguished from Buffy >(not counting the highly variable moods we recognize as parts >of Buffy's base personality, whiny to menacing being one axis >thereof) Both the (surprising number of) alternate Buffys and the specific variant thereof, Buffy in love with Spike, are, to an extent, gimmicks: but they're well-done gimmicks, and as a group enhance Buffy's already formidable reputation as a complex, in-depth character, as commented on in that tv critic article that was recently posted here. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 08 May 2001 16:27:22 -0700 From: "David S. Bratman" Subject: Re: b/toughlove At 03:33 PM 5/8/2001 , DGK wrote: >(By the way, did I really hear SMG >say--twice--"figger," that is the British pronunciation of >"figure"?) I've heard Americans say "figger." >I think >Buffy didn't tell Dawn at first because she would have >preferred to not threaten her, but Dawn didn't allow that >kindness. Buffy sure did go overboard with her "tough love," >though. On the one hand, Buffy needed Giles's reassurance about her ability to handle the situation. On the other, it was inevitable that, once given the reassurance, she was going to run too far with it. A well-presented subtle psychological point, of the kind common in real life but rare in fiction. >And it's interesting (does it follow legal guidelines?) that >a 20-year-old is even considered as legal guardian for a 14- >year-old. At 20, Buffy is a legal adult for all purposes except drinking. I believe that what appears to have happened here has been known to occur in the primary world: that when a set of siblings are orphaned, if one or more is 18 or over, they may be made guardians of the rest if the only alternative is a severe disruption of the minors' lives, i.e. sent to live with distant or estranged relatives far away. A matter like this could be addressed in the parents' wills. I could believe that (in the with-Dawn timeline, of course) Joyce had, on Buffy's reaching her majority, altered her will to state that in the event of her decease, un-remarried, at a time when Dawn was still a minor, Buffy would be appointed Dawn's guardian, possibly with a phrase like "at the discretion of the court" added. >I had =completely= forgotten that people Glory has brainsucked see through >Dawn. Sure made for a chilling cliffhanger for the episode. IIRC, Tara had started gibbering in Dawn's presence before Glory showed up. That was enough to remind me. I'd originally thought that Glory sucked Tara's brain merely out of pique and hunger. But is it possible that Glory (a remarkably stupid god, all things considered) has enough savvy to have realized that this would be a way to identify the Key? But then, perhaps she didn't know of the brainsuckeds' special ability at all. There may be much she doesn't know: the instructions she gave to her minions (find someone new in the Slayer's life) make it clear that she had no idea that the monks' spell had added the Key retroactively. >(Anybody else feeling that this has been a really long season? Can it be >possible this same season began with "Buffy vs. Dracula"? Yeah, it's amazing that such a clunker could have been the start of a good season. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 May 2001 18:22:44 -0700 (PDT) From: Todd Huff Subject: Re: b/toughlove > I think that Buffy and Dawn were visiting Willow and > Tara's dorm room at > the end; there was an establishing shot of the dorm > just before it. But > here's the odd thing. In "The Body" they're clearly > on the second floor; > when Glory busts out the window, however, she seems > to be standing on > level ground, meaning it was a first-floor room. ?? > I've been thinking about this and I think we've all made an incorrect assumption. It was Tara's dorm room! Remember in "The Body" when Willow was frantic to find her blue blouse? Tara said something about going back to her room to look for it again. When Buffy moved back home, Tara didn't move in with Willow. Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 09 May 2001 01:01:00 -0400 From: meredith Subject: b/one word: "truck!" Hi, So here I sit at 1 am, having just watched the episode after getting home from Xena Night in NYC because I knew I couldn't wait until tomorrow evening. I'm going to be a basket case at work tomorrow, but that's nothing new. Need I leave spoiler space? Oh my god. What an *intense* episode. Holy crap. Where to begin?! So much happens, so much key information is revealed (no pun intended), and the ending ... oy! Buffy has really lost it, it seems ... does anyone else know that killing Ben will kill Glory? I don't think anyone else was in the room -- was Dawn there yet? There's so much spinning around in my head ... I should just go to sleep and read what you all have to say tomorrow. Just wanted to pop in with an "eep!" It's going to be a LONG week. P.S. Why wasn't the RV pulled over for having all its windows covered over with tinfoil? Methinks that's illegal. ======================================= Meredith Tarr New Haven, CT USA mailto:meth@smoe.org http://www.smoe.org/meth "things are more beautiful when they're obscure" -- veda hille ======================================= Live At The House O'Muzak House Concert Series http://www.smoe.org/meth/muzak.html ------------------------------ End of stillpt-digest V3 #81 ****************************