From: owner-stillpt-digest@smoe.org (stillpt-digest) To: stillpt-digest@smoe.org Subject: stillpt-digest V3 #66 Reply-To: stillpt@smoe.org Sender: owner-stillpt-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-stillpt-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk stillpt-digest Thursday, April 19 2001 Volume 03 : Number 066 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: b/forever? ["Marta Grabien" ] Re: b/forever? [allenw ] Re: b/forever? ["David S. Bratman" ] missing word [Kathleen Dalton-Woodbury ] Re: b/forever? [Hilary Hertzoff ] Re: b/forever ["Berni Phillips" ] Re: b/forever [Todd Huff ] Re: b/forever [Micole Sudberg ] Re: b/forever [Micole Sudberg ] Re: Some great non-spoiler B interviews [meredith ] Re: b/forever? [meredith ] Re: b/forever [allenw ] Re: b/forever ["David S. Bratman" ] Re: Some great non-spoiler B interviews [Todd Huff ] Re: Some great non-spoiler B interviews ["Marta Grabien" Subject: Re: b/forever? > Query: At the end of the teaser on "Angel," he says "_____'s a bitch." > Fill in the blank, please? Atonement ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2001 15:57:38 -0500 (CDT) From: allenw Subject: Re: b/forever? SPOILER REPLY = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = On Tue, 17 Apr 2001, David S. Bratman wrote:] > At 11:23 PM 4/17/2001 -0400, DGK wrote: > > The egregious vampire in "The Body" was excused as being necessary for > the obligatory fight scene. It's worth noting, then, that there was no > fight scene in tonight's BTVS. Unless you count Ben stabbing Glory's > minion, which hardly qualifies. > > There may have been a reason for this. In this violence-free chamber, > the one slap in the critical scene near the end echoes like a bell. David, I'll grant you that they may have kept *Buffy* out of a fight scene for that reason, but there was indeed a big, fairly obligatory-seeming fight scene this episode, complete with massive, massively unconvincing rubber monster. Allen W. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2001 14:22:56 -0700 From: "David S. Bratman" Subject: Re: b/forever? Allen - My memory had mercifully erased that scene. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2001 16:47:08 -0600 From: Kathleen Dalton-Woodbury Subject: missing word >Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2001 22:49:05 -0700 >From: "David S. Bratman" >Subject: Re: b/forever? >Query: At the end of the teaser on "Angel," he says "_____'s a bitch." >Fill in the blank, please? It was "atoning" or "atonement." Phaedre/Kathleen workshop@burgoyne.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2001 08:07:42 -0400 From: Hilary Hertzoff Subject: Re: b/forever? On Tue, 17 Apr 2001, you wrote: > It's all about tone, folks. > > First of all, anyone else catch the literary allusion in the episode? The > main plot is a "retelling" of the famous horror story "The Monkey's Paw" > by W.W. Jacobs (although the engine of the short story is three wishes, > not necromancy); I picked it up when Doc (Joel Grey) was explaining to > Dawn that it would be her mother "more or less." Very nicely played out. > Missed it entirely. I'm feeling really stupid now. I just took it as a "bringing people back from the dead is a bad thing riff" to forstall questions of "they brough back Angel and Darla from the dead, why can't they bring back Jenny and Joyce". This also differentiates from soap operas and comic books, where people come back from the dead all the time and makes the theme of Joyce's death (and Jenny's) stronger. They aren't coming back. Just like real life. > =Serious= points off to Xander for being so mean to Spike. Well-presented > that Spike had reasons to like Joyce a lot, and should have been permitted > to express his feelings. Bad Xander. Which brings up a scene that I don't think anyone has mentioned in the Spike discussion, at the end of Fool for Love, where Spike goes off to kill Buffy and ends up comforting her as well. Even after telling him that he was beneath her, she wasn't pushing him away or using him as a punching bag in that scene. Whether this actually means something, time alone will tell. On a personal note, I think there are ways both storylines (she loves him/she hates him) might work for me and ways in which both storylines might fall flat for me (and I trust Joss too much at this point to really expect the latter). And quite honestly part of my enjoyment in watching Buffy is seeing how Joss plays the crowd. Joss is very aware of the fans and the Buffy/Spike "romance", has been one of the biggest topics of discussion (even before he fell for her). If he can add little touches here and there to make both groups say "such-and-such scene proves my view is correct, he's going to do it. And because it's Joss, it makes the show stronger. So I'm just going to sit back and wait to see who wins and in the meantime, I'll enjoy the discussion. > As usual, Michelle Trachtenberg was terrific: the portrayal of Dawn's > sullen grief was extremely well-done, and her smarts and determination > too. (Clever of her to realize that you don't take an oath not to do > something that can't be done.) And well done continuation of her covert > activities with Spike. I spent the episode wondering if Spike was actually trying to help Dawn for whatever reason, or if he brought her to the old man to scare her off and I still don't have an answer. This wouldn't be the first time he's shown protective instincts towards Dawn. Earlier in the show, they emphasized again how much he respected Joyce, so would this respect have led him to trying to bring her back or to protect her daughter? Which brings us back to his earlier comments about Joyce...that she was the only one who never treated him like a freak. Which is true. Of course, Spike doesn't help much with his emphasis on how bad he is. A question for the list...when is the last time we've actually seen Spike do something "evil" if we don't count leading Dawn to the magician which I still believe had an ambiguous motive. I don't think the Buffybot counts either - nobody's being hurt, it's just sick. Hilary - -- Hilary Hertzoff hhertzof@panix.com Mamaroneck, NY hhertzof@wls.lib.ny.us Miss Bettany had told them to read the classics and see how little slang was used there,and to try to model their own speech rather more on them than on that of cheap magazines filled with Americanese and language which might be suitable for boys, but was not allowable for girls. - Jo of the Chalet School ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2001 17:40:12 -0700 From: "Berni Phillips" Subject: Re: b/forever From: "meredith" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- Nice to see Tara a bit more front and center, too. She was a lot more > successful with Dawn than Willow was, the poor thing. (But WHAT was Willow > doing, pointing her toward that book? Did she secretly want Joyce to rise > again as well? That part confused me.) To me, this highlighted the difference between Tara and Willow as witches. Tara really does have more background and experience. She takes it more seriously and is more mature in her approach. On some level, witchcraft is still a game with Willow, and she's still at that "talented amateur" stage. She doesn't always think through the repercussions of her spells. I think the bit with the book was a combination of ignorance -- not being aware of the resurrection spells in the book -- and her discomfort at Dawn's pain and being unwilling to be the bad guy and say no to her. Tara chose to be the "parent" to Dawn; Willow chose to be the buddy. > > -- I'm wondering: why on earth did Cordelia call Willow when Harmony came > to town? As I recall, they weren't exactly the best of friends, > particularly after the whole Xander thing. I would think she would've > called Buffy, if she called anyone. Well, Cordy can be fickle, too. And perhaps she tried Buffy first and couldn't reach her and just =had= to talk to somebody from Sunnydale. > -- Cordelia scored some major points with me this episode, only to lose > them (and then some) at the very end. Her performance against the vampires > in the big battle, and her very cool "*this* is the one I'd kill you with" > to Harmony rocked. I was thinking "wow, Cordelia has really come into her > own, hasn't she?" But then her little display when she found all the > clothes Angel had bought her regressed her right back to 11th grade. Yeah, but it's also typical. And it was clear from her earlier conversation with Angel that one of the things that most bugged her was his giving away her clothes. She certainly seems to have quite a wardrobe anyway. Berni ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2001 17:55:47 -0700 (PDT) From: Todd Huff Subject: Re: b/forever > > -- I'm wondering: why on earth did Cordelia call > Willow when Harmony came > > to town? As I recall, they weren't exactly the > best of friends, > > particularly after the whole Xander thing. I > would think she would've > > called Buffy, if she called anyone. > > Well, Cordy can be fickle, too. And perhaps she > tried Buffy first and > couldn't reach her and just =had= to talk to > somebody from Sunnydale. Aren't Willow and Tara in the same dorm room that Willow shared with Buffy? Cordelia just dialed the old number and Willow answered. Offhand, the last genuinely evil thing I can remember Spike doing is the episode where he tried to break up the gang by lying to them all about what others had said. Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2001 21:07:48 -0400 From: Micole Sudberg Subject: Re: b/forever At 05:55 PM 4/18/01 -0700, Todd Huff wrote: >Offhand, the last genuinely evil thing I can remember >Spike doing is the episode where he tried to break up >the gang by lying to them all about what others had >said. I'm inclined to think that watching Dru kill people at a dance, drinking their blood, and threatening Buffy with a cattleprod was pretty evil. But maybe that's just me. - --m. - -- "Socks are a fact." -- A. S. Byatt, THE BIOGRAPHER'S TALE ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2001 21:07:48 -0400 From: Micole Sudberg Subject: Re: b/forever At 05:55 PM 4/18/01 -0700, Todd Huff wrote: >Offhand, the last genuinely evil thing I can remember >Spike doing is the episode where he tried to break up >the gang by lying to them all about what others had >said. I'm inclined to think that watching Dru kill people at a dance, drinking their blood, and threatening Buffy with a cattleprod was pretty evil. But maybe that's just me. - --m. - -- "Socks are a fact." -- A. S. Byatt, THE BIOGRAPHER'S TALE ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2001 23:10:14 -0400 From: meredith Subject: Re: Some great non-spoiler B interviews Hi, Todd posted: >http://www.eonline.com/Features/Features/Buffy/TheSlayerSpeaks/index.html Hey, thanks! Some really great stuff in there (the interview with Joss is particularly amusing). I think the next five episodes are going to be one hell of a ride. The most interesting piece of information there is that the show is going into syndication next season. That'll be a good chance for people to catch up with reruns if they came to the party late. I wonder where the show will end up ... my guess is the FX channel, since it is a Fox studios show. (When _Xena_ first hit the rerun market, it was on USA, since it's a Studios USA show.) I don't know why the prospect of Alyson Hannigan dating Alexis Denisof is so skeevy to me, but it is. (And while we're on the gossip pages, SMG is now engaged to Freddie Prinze, Jr. Whee.) ======================================= Meredith Tarr New Haven, CT USA mailto:meth@smoe.org http://www.smoe.org/meth "things are more beautiful when they're obscure" -- veda hille ======================================= Live At to pHouse O'Muzak House Concert Series http://www.smoe.org/meth/muzak.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2001 23:14:54 -0400 From: meredith Subject: Re: b/forever? Hi, Todd wondered: >And just why DID Spike help her? I can't say I quite >buy his explanation. Perhaps just the desire for >chaos. I think that even though he's doing a good job of denying it, he's still thinking about ways to earn Buffy's favor. Deep down, he is probably thinking that if he can be instrumental in giving Buffy her mom back, she'll change her mind about him. >Oh, and the demon they stole the egg from has to be >the worst monster costume since "Teacher's Pet." No, it wasn't anywhere near as bad as the Big Rubber Snake(tm) from earlier this season. (Or, for that matter, Oz's werewolf costume.) >And he was humming bits from "Peter and the Wolf" >while he was tottering around. I can't help but think >this was some deliberate foreshadowing. Oooh -- I missed that. (For some reason I can't figure out, the music in this show completely passes me by -- for instance, I wouldn't recognize the famous "Buffy and Angel Love Theme" if it jumped out of the CD player and bit me in the arse. I guess there's too much other stuff to pay attention to.) >Xander's nastiness towards Spike has been shown to us >several times now. I can't help but think that X is >getting set up for some kharmic fall. I hope so -- because otherwise, he's just being needlessly snarky about the whole thing. >Have we >seen any good singing characters other than Giles and >the Host? Not that I can recall. Maybe Joss thinks that singing belongs in the same category as driving: of no real use save to give us something to laugh at. ======================================= Meredith Tarr New Haven, CT USA mailto:meth@smoe.org http://www.smoe.org/meth "things are more beautiful when they're obscure" -- veda hille ======================================= Live At The House O'Muzak House Concert Series http://www.smoe.org/meth/muzak.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2001 22:55:06 -0500 (CDT) From: allenw Subject: Re: b/forever On Wed, 18 Apr 2001, Micole Sudberg wrote: > At 05:55 PM 4/18/01 -0700, Todd Huff wrote: > > >Offhand, the last genuinely evil thing I can remember > >Spike doing is the episode where he tried to break up > >the gang by lying to them all about what others had > >said. > > I'm inclined to think that watching Dru kill people at a dance, drinking > their blood, and threatening Buffy with a cattleprod was pretty evil. But > maybe that's just me. > > --m. > > Nah, that'd only be evil if he chained Buffy up and threatened to kill her unless she said she loved him... oops. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2001 20:58:26 -0700 From: "David S. Bratman" Subject: Re: b/forever meredith wrote: > > I don't know if there are LA denizens on this list or not, but just in case of confusion, I should say that Berni and I live in the San Francisco Bay Area. This difference is very important to us, out here. > -- Nice to see Tara a bit more front and center, too. She was a lot more > successful with Dawn than Willow was, the poor thing. (But WHAT was Willow > doing, pointing her toward that book? Did she secretly want Joyce to rise > again as well? That part confused me.) I thought that was made clear when Tara discovered that Dawn had taken the book. It was a history book: Willow was hoping its accounts of past disasters would dissuade Dawn. What she didn't realize was that its pointers towards spells would be of more interest to Dawn. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2001 21:36:25 -0700 (PDT) From: Todd Huff Subject: Re: Some great non-spoiler B interviews > The most interesting piece of information there is > that the show is going > into syndication next season. That'll be a good > chance for people to catch > up with reruns if they came to the party late. I > wonder where the show > will end up ... my guess is the FX channel, since it > is a Fox studios show. > (When _Xena_ first hit the rerun market, it was on > USA, since it's a > Studios USA show.) I have heard (but not seen confirmed) that it is indeed going to FX, and that's why we're not getting those Buffy DVDs we all want. There is supposedly an agreement to not release them in the US until FX has aired each episode at least once. Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2001 21:59:46 -0700 From: "Marta Grabien" Subject: Re: Some great non-spoiler B interviews By the way, anyone spot the blooper in Angel? (he is seen in the mirror at the last instant of the show.) ------------------------------ End of stillpt-digest V3 #66 ****************************