From: owner-stillpt-digest@smoe.org (stillpt-digest) To: stillpt-digest@smoe.org Subject: stillpt-digest V3 #45 Reply-To: stillpt@smoe.org Sender: owner-stillpt-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-stillpt-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk stillpt-digest Wednesday, March 14 2001 Volume 03 : Number 045 Today's Subjects: ----------------- RE: b/body2 ["Karin Rabe" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2001 14:05:39 -0500 From: "Karin Rabe" Subject: RE: b/body2 Gayle, Re: > That sounds like you are looking for signs of trust, not respect. (And > Glory appeared =after= the chipping.) I'm well aware Glory appeared after the chipping, but the chip doesn't prevent Spike from protecting humans from demons and goddesses. :) And indeed, I mentioned in an earlier post that I see that incident as evidence of trust on Buffy's part; I =don't= equate trust with respect. That's why I said "unless you're thinking of something like....," because I was wondering if =you= saw it as evidence of respect. You go on to reiterate, > > Buffy used to respect him, even when she hated him, because he > was a strong > and formidable opponent, a worthy adversary. He was a powerful vampire > warrior who had killed two Slayers. Well, if that's what you had in mind as Buffy's previously respecting Spike, then wouldn't it follow that as long as he has that chip in his head respect is out of the question, with or without pity? And that her respect is indissolubly mixed with fear? I.e., she can only "respect" a vampire's potential for killing her? I guess I didn't really have that kind of respect in mind. You also said, > He first became pitiable and pathetic to her in the ep where he was > mooning over Dru, but now, of course, he is much more so. Why "more so"? Because loving her is even more inconsistent with how vampires are supposed to be, than loving Dru? That making himself vulnerable to a vampire slayer's power to kill him is even more pathetic, i.e. masochistic, than letting a fellow vampire torment him emotionally? I guess the consistent thread here is the idea that Buffy can only "respect" a vampire who's not only a "worthy" adversary, i.e. is a match for her and therefore might actually kill her, but who remains true to his vampire nature by refusing to see her any other way. I don't disagree with that, but from where I sit, it means =she's= choosing to stay locked into her vampire slayer mentality -- refusing to acknowledge the complexity of Spike's character, because doing so would threaten her on two levels: by making it harder to stake every vampire she encounters without knowing anything more about them than the fact that they're vampires, and by making it harder to keep her relationship with Angel banished to a deep dark barely acknowledged any more corner of her psyche. I can certainly sympathize with the first motive, but I think she's going to have to do something more healing and constructive with her memories of Angel, since burying them isn't really working. It cost her Riley, for starters. - ---Karin ------------------------------ End of stillpt-digest V3 #45 ****************************