From: owner-stillpt-digest@smoe.org (stillpt-digest) To: stillpt-digest@smoe.org Subject: stillpt-digest V3 #36 Reply-To: stillpt@smoe.org Sender: owner-stillpt-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-stillpt-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk stillpt-digest Thursday, March 1 2001 Volume 03 : Number 036 Today's Subjects: ----------------- b/the body [Todd Huff ] Re: b/the body [Micole Sudberg ] b/the body ["Hilary L. Hertzoff" ] Re: b/the body [Micole Sudberg ] Re: b/the body [Micole Sudberg ] Re: b/the body ["David S. Bratman" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2001 07:55:12 -0800 (PST) From: Todd Huff Subject: b/the body Another outstanding episode. I wonder whether the Willow/Tara kiss was permitted this time because it was a kiss of comfort rather than lust or whether the WB simply changed it's mind. Speaking of "Restless", I've been trying to come up with some link between Xander putting his hand through the thin wall in the dorm and Joyce living in the wall during Buffy's dream. No luck so far. Looking backward, were there any hints at all in those dreams about what has occurred so far this season? I'm starting to wonder if Joyce's funeral will provide the excuse for the rumored return of Oz, Angel, etc to Sunnydale for a visit. How long is the hiatus? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2001 11:49:30 -0500 From: Micole Sudberg Subject: Re: b/the body I'm still too shaken to say much about the episode. But to respond briefly to a couple of things: At 11:48 PM 2/27/01 -0500, Donald G. Keller wrote: >Notice, too, that it was Tara who was holding the whole >thing together--partly, we find out later, because she had been through >this exact situation before (though "it's different for everybody"). It's already been mentioned that Tara's mother is dead, I think, perhaps in "Family." I was expecting it to come up through the entire episode. At 07:55 AM 2/28/01 -0800, Todd Huff wrote: >I wonder whether the Willow/Tara kiss was permitted >this time because it was a kiss of comfort rather than >lust or whether the WB simply changed it's mind. I thought it was pretty sexy. Clearly intended for comfort, but also two lovers kissing. I liked it. And I have a lot of nasty things to say about the WB's promo department, particularly their habit of including spoilers in ads, but I'm very proud of them for not hyping that kiss at all. That was a good thing. >Speaking of "Restless", I've been trying to come up >with some link between Xander putting his hand through >the thin wall in the dorm and Joyce living in the wall >during Buffy's dream. No luck so far. Looking >backward, were there any hints at all in those dreams >about what has occurred so far this season? I don't think Joyce-in-the-wall is linked to Xander; I think it's linked to Joyce being bricked up. Buried. - --m. - -- "There's trees in the desert since you moved out. And I don't sleep on a bed of bones."--Joss Whedon, BUFFY THE VAMPIRE SLAYER ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2001 17:02:01 -0500 (EST) From: "Hilary L. Hertzoff" Subject: b/the body I'm still trying to absorb this episode, so I fear this will be a bit disconnected. 1. I thought for the longest time that this would be the Buffy episode without a fight in it. I suppose that as much as I'd like to see an episode like this, the nature of the program prevents it. 2. Loved the Willow/Tara kiss. And the kissing Willow's forehead. And Willow dithering about the blue shirt. 3. Loved what Joss did with the sound. Joss proved with Hush that he was good at letting actions speak for themselves and he uses the technique again here. 4. Notice the echo of Jenny's death, where we didn't actually hear Buffy tell Dawn that Joyce had died. 5. Anyone else think that Dawn was wondering what was going to happen to her now that Joyce had died. I suspect she's still more than a little insecure about her place in the family. 6. Loved seeing the new high school. Hilary Hilary L. Hertzoff From here to there, Mamaroneck Public Library a bunny goes where a bunny must. Mamaroneck, NY hhertzof@wls.lib.ny.us Little Bunny on the Move hhertzof@panix.com by Peter McCarty ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2001 17:06:34 -0500 From: Micole Sudberg Subject: Re: b/the body At 05:02 PM 2/28/01 -0500, Hilary L. Hertzoff wrote: >5. Anyone else think that Dawn was wondering what was going to happen to >her now that Joyce had died. I suspect she's still more than a little >insecure about her place in the family. I'm wondering too. Buffy is twenty, yes? Is legal adulthood 18 or 21? If it's 21, will Hank return? Or did Joyce put together a will when she first got sick leaving guardianship to Giles (which is really the most sensible thing she could have done)? Or is it all irrelevant because the monks' magic extended to inserting Dawn into the memories of everyone in Sunnydale, not to mention the Sunnydale school system, but didn't go as far as the rest of the world? - --m. - -- "There's trees in the desert since you moved out. And I don't sleep on a bed of bones."--Joss Whedon, BUFFY THE VAMPIRE SLAYER ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2001 17:06:34 -0500 From: Micole Sudberg Subject: Re: b/the body At 05:02 PM 2/28/01 -0500, Hilary L. Hertzoff wrote: >5. Anyone else think that Dawn was wondering what was going to happen to >her now that Joyce had died. I suspect she's still more than a little >insecure about her place in the family. I'm wondering too. Buffy is twenty, yes? Is legal adulthood 18 or 21? If it's 21, will Hank return? Or did Joyce put together a will when she first got sick leaving guardianship to Giles (which is really the most sensible thing she could have done)? Or is it all irrelevant because the monks' magic extended to inserting Dawn into the memories of everyone in Sunnydale, not to mention the Sunnydale school system, but didn't go as far as the rest of the world? - --m. - -- "There's trees in the desert since you moved out. And I don't sleep on a bed of bones."--Joss Whedon, BUFFY THE VAMPIRE SLAYER ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2001 17:07:43 -0800 From: "David S. Bratman" Subject: Re: b/the body This episode hardly needs me to praise it. Remorseless. Stunning. Not a tour-de-force as "Restless" and "Hush" were, so I wouldn't rate it as highly _on that scale_: its excellence is of a different kind. I note that the pacing and structure were entirely unlike a typical BTVS, in more ways than the absence of music. BTVS, more than many drama shows, lingers on moments of insignificance when they provide punctuation or cadence to the drama - an example here would be Xander's car getting a ticket. But this episode lingered in that way even when that kind of punctuation was lacking. What I'm referring to mostly is holding the camera on transitional scenes, like someone walking, much longer than would normally be done. The doctor finishing up the autopsy, cleaning up, and coming down the corridor to talk to Buffy and Giles, for instance: normally we wouldn't be given so much attention to someone like that unless he was about to be attacked by a vampire. (But see below.) The dinner scene seemed to me to be a memory rather than a dream or fantasy; the scene of Joyce recovering could hardly be classed as a dream or fantasy either, but rather just a brief hope. I thought there was one serious flaw. Apart from the brief discussion of whether Glory was responsible for this (and she could be: supernatural powers can always work through natural processes), the episode was completely free of the supernatural - until the vampire attacks Dawn. Creepy and effective in itself, and perfectly appropriate for the show at any other time, this scene spoiled the special atmosphere of this episode, and belittled the dire natural terror that enfolded it. Thus, at the last moment, when Dawn reaches out to touch Joyce's face, instead of thinking "She's gone. Mom is dead. Poor girls!", I am distracted into half-expecting Joyce to jump up and bare fangs. (Which would put Buffy into a situation we've seen once before, with Gunn and his sister.) Turning to the trivia we usually think about: did it seem that Buffy had a little more trouble with this vampire than usual? Is it possible there's some previously unknown Slayer rule involving whether she has a living mother? And the business with Xander's hand and the wall mystified me. I guess we're supposed to observe that the wall is very thin and Xander much stronger than he thinks, and he didn't notice what he was doing in his grief. But his hand getting stuck in there reads, as others have noted, as a commentary on something. Watching "Angel" after that was a bit of a let-down, though I thought this episode hung together better than other recent ones, and got better as it went along. Especially after Darla went away. Unfortunately, Lindsay seems to have become infected with Darla's bad acting gene. ------------------------------ End of stillpt-digest V3 #36 ****************************