From: owner-stillpt-digest@smoe.org (stillpt-digest) To: stillpt-digest@smoe.org Subject: stillpt-digest V3 #24 Reply-To: stillpt@smoe.org Sender: owner-stillpt-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-stillpt-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk stillpt-digest Friday, February 16 2001 Volume 03 : Number 024 Today's Subjects: ----------------- RE: Dawn's fogetting ["Karin Rabe" ] RE: b/Dawn the Key ["Karin Rabe" ] Re: stillpt-digest V3 #23 [Kathleen Woodbury ] Re: b/crush! [Hilary Hertzoff ] Re: b/crush! [meredith ] Re: b/crush! [Todd Huff ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2001 12:00:40 -0500 From: "Karin Rabe" Subject: RE: Dawn's fogetting - ---Karin When Don wrote, > > >Incidentally, I'm of the school that Dawn =doesn't= remember Ben turning > >into Glory (why, I'm not sure; so she doesn't know it's a Bad Idea for > >Buffy and Ben to get together?); she was under serious stress, > and it just > >seems unlikely to me that she was thinking clearly enough to > have a "plot" > >to hide something from Buffy. But we'll see, as always. David replied, > She must have remembered, or semi-remembered, something, because she > hesitated and stumbled when speaking about this. Couldn't her hesitation and stumbling simply be a function of her realizing she =didn't= remember something she ought to, how Ben left the scene? You went on to say, > This could be > because she > was not quite sure how much she wanted to say about what she saw (my > theory, and it's not necessary to have a plot to hide something to decide > to hold it back for now); or because she was so bewildered by the weird > transformation that her mind couldn't process it (the best alternative, I > think). Bewilderment of that kind is a possibility, I'll grant you, although Dawn doesn't strike me as easily bewildered. >...Another question is the secondary-universe why, or more > precisely how it is that she doesn't remember, if she doesn't. Given that > assumption, I'd hold to bewilderment, which would be an entirely straight > interpretation of her actual words. Other possibilities, less likely, are > supernatural intervention (Glory's own, or somebody's spell), or something > related to her being the Key. Those other possibilities seem quite real to me. And FWIW, my niece, whom I discussed the episode with just yesterday, made exactly the same assumption that I originally had: that Glory somehow prevented Dawn from remembering the transformation. Of course, we haven't seen Glory exhibit that sort of power with anyone else, but then she hasn't morphed out of Ben in =front= of anyone else before, either. :) And if Dawn were deliberately sitting on such a major discovery, it's a little hard to imagine how she could have seemed totally oblivious of its importance throughout this week's episode. - ---Karin ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2001 12:09:02 -0500 From: "Karin Rabe" Subject: RE: b/Dawn the Key Robert, re: > my impression was that Dawn genuinely did not > remember the Ben/Glory connection. And, yes, Karin, it seemed a bit > arbitrary; I expect they'll deal with that in a later script. One hopes! > I was struck by Ben's very real concern for her well-being, once he realized > what she was (excellent transcription, Don). A possible ally, perhaps > (though a ticklish one for the team to play, given the supernatural > closeness of that brother/sister relationship). My thoughts as well! > Spike's scene with Buffy in his mausoleum was top-notch. Especially > at the end of it, when we see him mentally kicking himself for being so > upfront, though (and precisely because) he'd told Buffy exactly what was > so. Interesting, the way his regard for her is playing out. Very. And I must say Spike's "upfrontness" strikes me as his most consistent virtue, brutal though it often is (e.g., with Harmony :). And it's the one thing Buffy clearly needs heavy doses of, this season! She's become such a master of denial, as her main emotional coping mechanism. This week's episode was more proof of that. And what =was= she thinking, when she adamantly refused to give Spike an inch, or even =pretend= to, while he had her and Dru both rendered helpless? If she were serious about not trusting him, she had to assume that her defiance would prompt him to sic Dru on her, and that would have been the end of Buffy! Of course, that on some level she actually does trust Spike, and not just to be rendered harmless by his chip, was made very clear a couple of episodes back when she brought Dawn and her mother to his lair, so he could protect them! Can't wait to see what happens next week. - ---Karin ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2001 14:22:26 -0700 From: Kathleen Woodbury Subject: Re: stillpt-digest V3 #23 >Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2001 15:20:26 -0500 (EST) >From: "Hilary L. Hertzoff" >Subject: VCR problems > >You'll like this one. > >I was taping the episodes that I had promised Kathleen and I noticed >white streaks running vertically across the screen as Blood Ties was >taping. After all of the comments about problems with taping this >episode I first thought that it must be something with the feed (although >I hadn't noticed it when I first watched the episode). However I decided >to clean the vcr I was playing the tape on anyway. > >The vcr cleaner picked up some bunny fur that had gotten into the vcr. >One of the hazards of having a shedding rabbit around the house, I guess. > >Kathleen, I'm going to retape Blood Ties and send it off tomorrow morning. > >Sorry about the delay. I shall scold Marble severely. Thank you. Late is better than never. (What I can't figure out is whether or not your bunny fur problem had anything to do with those of us who also had taping problems. Or is mercury in retrograde finding individual ways to mess us up?) Also, comment on ANGEL--did I get mixed up on the time frame of the episode, or did Angel forego messing up the Wolfram and Hart meeting his informant told him about so he could help Kate do something about those cops? If so, he isn't as obsessed with Wolfram and Hart as he would like to think he is. Phaedre/Kathleen workshop@burgoyne.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2001 08:26:48 -0500 From: Hilary Hertzoff Subject: Re: b/crush! On Wed, 14 Feb 2001, you wrote: > (please do not write spoilers in above space) > On a side note, I've just picked up The Willow Files v. 2 at the bookstore. It contains Gingerbread, Dopplegangland and Choices. > Another really good episode, I thought; typical =Buffy= in the fact that > it's basically a comedy, =despite= bystanders dying like flies and main > characters being tied up and jeopardized... > > What I liked about was its emotional verisimilitude: the characters seemed > to me to act exactly the way they should under the circumstances: > > -=Of course= Dawn would get a crush on Spike, given how he's treated her > (as she was quick to point out) I liked the bit where he was telling her an obviously gruesome story...and then Buffy walked in. > -=Of course= Spike would get bent out of shape observing Buffy chatting up > Ben (and what a problem-causing plot development =that= could be, eh?) > Which...Buffy chatting up Ben or Spike getting bent out of shape about it. I just had the odd thought that I trust Spike more than I trust Ben. Spike at least is completely honest about his motives and his actions. His one saving grace. > -=Of course= Spike would have lost interest in Harmony, and she would be > pouting. (Where's Harmony been, anyway?) > I wish someone would get around to killing Harmony. It was funny the first time, now she's just pathetic. > -=Of course= Spike would, given the opening, persuade Harmony the Moron to > playact as the Slayer for a sex game (the funniest moment of the > episode). > It's these vampires and their obsessions with blondes. > -=Of course= Drusilla, Harmony, =and= Buffy walk out on him at the end. > > -=Of course= (despite the way the previews seemed to slant towards Buffy > throwing Spike a crumb, as he put it) Buffy stuck to her guns, a.k.a. her > complete revulsion towards Spike. As I suspected. > One almost has to feel sorry for Spike. It's starting to bother me just how often Buffy beats him up, like he's her personal vampiric punching bag. It occured to me last night that he is essentially in an abusive relationship with Buffy and he honestly believes that if he's a good enough boy she'll stop hitting him. He seems to define himself by his relationship with the women in his life, which doesn't help matters any. They've been so good with the magic as a metaphor for real life in the past that I wonder if they're going to do anything with this. > The only false note to me was Buffy's seeming consternation at Spike's > confession; she didn't =know=? After he started to kiss her in =Fool for > Love=?? Sure, she was in denial about it, but she couldn't have been > =that= unaware. She thought he was playing mindgames? She's as oblivious as her mother at times? I really thought she knew. > > Got another tape with glitches in it. I think it's my VCR; it tends to > "catch" a little for a second at a time, and I have two scenes somewhat > damaged by it. What was it that Xander said about Spike? It was a > memorable line, and I've lost it. Have you cleaned your vcr recently? That sometimes helps. I had the joy of watching my tape pop out 10 minutes before the end of Buffy, and while I got another tape in for Angel, I'm extremely furious with myself for not checking before I taped Babylon 5 (I don't have time to change the tape in between the two). Last time I checked, my parents were getting it Weds. night rather than Tues. so I'll see if they can make me a copy. Phaedre, I'm about to start taping the episodes I promised you. I'll send them off on my way to work. > Incidentally, I'm of the school that Dawn =doesn't= remember Ben turning > into Glory (why, I'm not sure; so she doesn't know it's a Bad Idea for > Buffy and Ben to get together?); she was under serious stress, and it just > seems unlikely to me that she was thinking clearly enough to have a "plot" > to hide something from Buffy. But we'll see, as always. I don't think she remembered either. The whole point of the episode being that Buffy (and the viewers) need to react to Dawn as if she is a 14 year old girl rather than as the "key". Although, note how she has started using this to get her way in things, such as getting Spike to tell her a story. Hilary - -- Hilary Hertzoff hhertzof@panix.com Mamaroneck, NY hhertzof@wls.lib.ny.us Miss Bettany had told them to read the classics and see how little slang was used there,and to try to model their own speech rather more on them than on that of cheap magazines filled with Americanese and language which might be suitable for boys, but was not allowable for girls. - Jo of the Chalet School ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2001 19:06:40 -0500 From: meredith Subject: Re: b/crush! Hi! Don commented: >What I liked about was its emotional verisimilitude: the characters seemed >to me to act exactly the way they should under the circumstances: >-=Of course= Drusilla would turn up at the right moment and give Spike's > head a spin (and take him on a killing spree to boot!) I hope you don't mean that part should have been predictable?? I somehow managed to miss Juliet Landau's name in the opening credits, so when she walked in I just about fell on the floor. >The only false note to me was Buffy's seeming consternation at Spike's >confession; she didn't =know=? After he started to kiss her in =Fool for >Love=?? Sure, she was in denial about it, but she couldn't have been >=that= unaware. I think she was in so much denial, it made her act as blonde as she is. I do, however, have the feeling that at the root of her revulsion lies a spark of feeling for the poor sod. Otherwise, there is no reasonable explanation for why she hasn't dusted him yet. (I don't quite buy the "he's harmless with the chip in his head" argument she's mentioned before.) >Good episode of =Angel=, too, by the way. Glad to see Kate back on; also >another appearance from Anne. I *loved* the zombie cops!! Very enjoyable ep. +==========================================================================+ | Meredith Tarr meth@smoe.org | | New Haven, CT USA http://www.smoe.org/~meth | +==========================================================================+ | "things are more beautiful when they're obscure" -- veda hille | | *** TRAJECTORY, the Veda Hille mailing list: *** | | *** http://www.smoe.org/meth/trajectory.html *** | +==========================================================================+ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2001 16:58:26 -0800 (PST) From: Todd Huff Subject: Re: b/crush! > > -=Of course= Spike would, given the opening, > persuade Harmony the Moron to > > playact as the Slayer for a sex game (the > funniest moment of the > > episode). > > > It's these vampires and their obsessions with > blondes. > That was a funny moment. I don't think it's blondes that attract the vampires (yes, I know you're joking), it's strong women period. Spike knows Buffy can kick his butt and he has to respect that. Respect has grown into obsession. Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ End of stillpt-digest V3 #24 ****************************