From: owner-stillpt-digest@smoe.org (stillpt-digest) To: stillpt-digest@smoe.org Subject: stillpt-digest V2 #219 Reply-To: stillpt@smoe.org Sender: owner-stillpt-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-stillpt-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk stillpt-digest Saturday, November 25 2000 Volume 02 : Number 219 Today's Subjects: ----------------- b/glorysnake ["Donald G. Keller" ] Re: b/glorysnake [Todd Huff ] Re: b/glorysnake ["Hilary L. Hertzoff" ] Re: b/glorysnake [Todd Huff ] Re: b/glorysnake [GHighPine@aol.com] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2000 15:31:50 -0500 (EST) From: "Donald G. Keller" Subject: b/glorysnake A very heavy =Buffy= episode this past Tuesday; I'm intrigued by the fact that they are clearly going to keep Joyce's health crisis entirely in the realm of science/medicine, and not involve the supernatural (and are we disappointed that, for the second time this season, a mundane explanation applies?). The teaser this time was at the other extreme: multiple scenes, about five minutes long. I was particularly struck by the scene therein between Buffy and Dawn (more good sister stuff), where Dawn was speculating on why they call it a "cat" scan. It wasn't a joke, either on Dawn's part or on the writers', but it did serve to lighten the mood of a very heavy moment, just a little. The manipulation of tone has always been one of the show's strongest skills. Intern Ben on the scene again, unsurprisingly. I suspect it's significant that Buffy remembered his name. And boy, did Spike cause trouble! As is frequently the case, what he said to Riley had =just= enough truth in it to be plausible, and really sent Riley into a tailspin. Then add to that what Dawn said to him, surely thinking she was telling him things he'd be glad to hear, but which we are aware he would read between the lines of and corroborate his feeling that Buffy doesn't love him--at least not as much as she did Angel. Here's an interesting angle that Deirdre brought up when I discussed the episode with her yesterday. (Actually it was her flatmate Eileen who had the thought.) Doesn't the retroactive presence of Dawn in Buffy's life change =all= of Buffy's relationships? Wouldn't it have been much more difficult for Buffy to lead her clandestine life the first two seasons with a (then-10-year-old) sister in the house, too? Doesn't it change the dynamic of her relationship to Willow and Xander, as well? Their bond is based partly on the fact that they were all three only children; if Buffy has a sister that changes things. I don't know what I think about this just yet, but it's a point worth pondering. Back to Riley: what =was= he up to with Sandy? Had he simply made his mind up to stray and then changed his mind? Or--a point Deirdre also brought up, which hadn't even occurred to me--did he have the momentary impulse (after the conversation with Spike) to get himself changed into a vampire?? And then changed his mind, of course. And a good scene where Xander confronts Riley about going it alone. The mild conflict of their relationship is one of the good things the show had been doing this season. More good Anya stuff. She had the best line of the episode: "Thank you =very much= for =those= nightmares!" I think I liked it so much because I half-anticipated it when Xander mentioned bunnies: I flashed on Anya's bunny-suit in "Fear, Itself" and her admission that bunnies scare her. (My second-favorite line was Buffy describing the snake-thing as "not Mayor-big," again because I half-anticipated it.) Also liked Anya saying she'd grown because she didn't want to start the morning with a massacre. And it's working very well to have Anya and Tara as part of the team: note the way that they were first and second lead in solving the mystery this episode (with Willow just behind and Giles well behind). The magic shop as base for operations was a swell idea. Very clever scene when Glory (now named within the "text") shows up at the shop unrecognized: not only the timing where Giles is talking about her, turns and waits on her, and then starts talking about her again; but also the fact that, on rewatching, you can see in the background that Anya is waiting on another customer and missed Glory's transaction entirely. And very funny altercation between Anya and Giles over his "stupidity." Incidentally: did they say the ancient snake-cult priest was named Kull (as in Robert E. Howard)? (Not the guy in the episode--he was called Dreg, forsooth.) I found myself wondering if they used a real cobra in any of those shots in the zoo; I'm pretty sure it wasn't real when Glory was handling it on camera. The effects for the creature were an improvement on the Mayor-snake, but still obviously computer-generated. Good (but easy to miss) line by Willow, wondering why the snake was "afraid" of Dawn; and an effectively dramatic line where Buffy says =sotto voce= to Giles, "It knows!" And effective use of Buffy's well-known tendency to take out her stress ("kicking ass is comfort food," remember?) in combat, battering the snake-thing to death and beyond in a rather Faith-like manner. Good episode, on the whole (though last week's is probably best-of-season so far). And another solid =Angel=. I really liked the cryptic teaser followed by flashback, and it was good to see Kate back on board, with an interesting twist in her ongoing attitude towards Angel. I've got a bunch of notes to discussions of previous episodes, but I'm not going to get to them today. Maybe over the weekend. One order of business. I, too, was wondering where we'd heard about the Order of Aurelius before. No, it's not the vampire gang in "Angel," 1st season: they were called merely The Three. Nor the assassins in "What's My Line," 2nd season: they were the Order of Taraka (the latter being the name of two different demons in Hindu mythology, by the way). It wasn't until I was reading through the scripts this week (all done--next task is to watch the episodes, book in hand, to corroborate the differences) that I came across it: that was the name of the group of vampires in "Never Kill a Boy on a First Date," 1st season, who greet the Anointed on behalf of the Master; that episode implies they are a different group from the Master, but last week's =Angel= implies that they are the Master's group. (Aurelius being a monk who wrote prophecies about vampires.) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2000 12:55:30 -0800 (PST) From: Todd Huff Subject: Re: b/glorysnake > Back to Riley: what =was= he up to with Sandy? Had > he simply made his mind > up to stray and then changed his mind? Or--a point > Deirdre also brought > up, which hadn't even occurred to me--did he have > the momentary impulse > (after the conversation with Spike) to get himself > changed into a > vampire?? And then changed his mind, of course. > I found myself wondering if he wanted just a taste of that wild side that Buffy had experienced, i.e. sex with a vampire. > > I found myself wondering if they used a real cobra > in any of those shots > in the zoo; I'm pretty sure it wasn't real when > Glory was handling it on > camera. The effects for the creature were an > improvement on the > Mayor-snake, but still obviously computer-generated. I'd say it was all fake except for the part where the snake is being lowered into the amphora, where you can't see who's really handling it. Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. http://shopping.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2000 21:19:41 -0500 (EST) From: "Hilary L. Hertzoff" Subject: Re: b/glorysnake On Fri, 24 Nov 2000, Donald G. Keller wrote: > A very heavy =Buffy= episode this past Tuesday; I'm intrigued by the > fact that they are clearly going to keep Joyce's health crisis > entirely in the realm of science/medicine, and not involve the > supernatural (and are we disappointed that, for the second time this > season, a mundane explanation applies?). > Is it? Someone speculated somewhere (and it could even have been this list) that Dawn was responsible for Joyce's illness, I was reminded of this when the doctor started asking all of those questions (cellphone usage etc.); Dawn is theoretically very powerful and it might not be intentional. I hope this idea doesn't pan out though. > > I was particularly struck by the scene therein between Buffy and Dawn > (more good sister stuff), where Dawn was speculating on why they call it a > "cat" scan. It wasn't a joke, either on Dawn's part or on the writers', > but it did serve to lighten the mood of a very heavy moment, just a > little. The manipulation of tone has always been one of the show's > strongest skills. > This set me to thinking...if Dawn hadn't been sent to Buffy, she would be even more alone right now. > And boy, did Spike cause trouble! As is frequently the case, what he said > to Riley had =just= enough truth in it to be plausible, and really sent > Riley into a tailspin. Then add to that what Dawn said to him, surely > thinking she was telling him things he'd be glad to hear, but which we are > aware he would read between the lines of and corroborate his feeling that > Buffy doesn't love him--at least not as much as she did Angel. > Spike's obsessing is turning into a lovely subplot. Sputter. I did think it was a good point that she hadn't revoked his access into her house. And it's pretty clear that he believes at least some of what he said, or else he wants to believe it. > Here's an interesting angle that Deirdre brought up when I discussed the > episode with her yesterday. (Actually it was her flatmate Eileen who had > the thought.) Doesn't the retroactive presence of Dawn in Buffy's life > change =all= of Buffy's relationships? Wouldn't it have been much more > difficult for Buffy to lead her clandestine life the first two seasons > with a (then-10-year-old) sister in the house, too? Doesn't it change the > dynamic of her relationship to Willow and Xander, as well? Their bond is > based partly on the fact that they were all three only children; if Buffy > has a sister that changes things. I don't know what I think about this > just yet, but it's a point worth pondering. > And it still is. I couldn't tell for certain, but it looked like Buffy was glad to have Dawn to hang on to now, rather than being jealous of an intrusion. It's as though learning that her memories were false and Dawn was not her sister caused her to become more protective of Dawn *as her sister* (as opposed to a responsibility she doesn't want, and doesn't have time to deal with). > Back to Riley: what =was= he up to with Sandy? Had he simply made his mind > up to stray and then changed his mind? Or--a point Deirdre also brought > up, which hadn't even occurred to me--did he have the momentary impulse > (after the conversation with Spike) to get himself changed into a > vampire?? And then changed his mind, of course. I thought that he had decided that Buffy was into vampires so the only way for their relationship to suceed would be for him to become one. Also all of the background stuff we've been seeing about him feeling he isn't strong enough to pull his own weight. He just came to his senses at the very end. > More good Anya stuff. She had the best line of the episode: "Thank you > =very much= for =those= nightmares!" I think I liked it so much because I > half-anticipated it when Xander mentioned bunnies: I flashed on Anya's > bunny-suit in "Fear, Itself" and her admission that bunnies scare her. (My > second-favorite line was Buffy describing the snake-thing as "not > Mayor-big," again because I half-anticipated it.) Bunnies are scary. My bun has just discovered how easy it is to terrorize my brother's cat. > Good (but easy to miss) line by Willow, wondering why the snake was > "afraid" of Dawn; and an effectively dramatic line where Buffy says =sotto > voce= to Giles, "It knows!" > > And effective use of Buffy's well-known tendency to take out her stress > ("kicking ass is comfort food," remember?) in combat, battering the > snake-thing to death and beyond in a rather Faith-like manner. There was a point somewhere in there when I was wondering if there was going to be a fight in this week's Buffy. Loved the Giles and Buffy chase after the snake bits. His car has improved. Can someone confirm for me that there will be new episodes next week. I'm visiting my parents for Thanksgiving and either next week is a repeat or they just didn't air the trailer here. - ---- On another note, I just picked up the Buffy shooting scripts myself and noted this comment by Giles in the very first episode. About halfway through scene 21 on p. 28 of the 1st volume. "You have no idea what's going on, do you? Do you think it's coincidence, your coming here? That boy was just the beginning." Just food for thought. Hilary Hilary L. Hertzoff From here to there, Mamaroneck Public Library a bunny goes where a bunny must. Mamaroneck, NY hhertzof@wls.lib.ny.us Little Bunny on the Move hhertzof@panix.com by Peter McCarty ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2000 19:07:10 -0800 (PST) From: Todd Huff Subject: Re: b/glorysnake > Can someone confirm for me that there will be new > episodes next week. > I'm visiting my parents for Thanksgiving and either > next week is a repeat > or they just didn't air the trailer here. > Next week is two new episodes. Rerun (Buffy vs. Dracula) on the 5th. Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. http://shopping.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 25 Nov 2000 01:15:32 EST From: GHighPine@aol.com Subject: Re: b/glorysnake In a message dated 11/24/00 6:21:29 PM Pacific Standard Time, hhertzof@wls.lib.ny.us writes: << Doesn't the retroactive presence of Dawn in Buffy's life > change =all= of Buffy's relationships? Wouldn't it have been much more > difficult for Buffy to lead her clandestine life the first two seasons > with a (then-10-year-old) sister in the house, too? >> That was certainly my thought when Dawn talked about how Buffy acted when Angel was her boyfriend, "my boyfriend's a vampire, boo-hoo," or whatever. That suggests that family knew about Angel at that time (even pre-change), which suggests that a =lot= of things must have been different. Point of mundane Joyce illness seems to be about Buffy's helplessness before this kind of crisis. The mundane explanation about Tara was a letdown; this mundane explanation is not. The main reason for the difference is that Tara's seems to have been a plot dead-end, a setup that led nowhere, whereas this is a potent setup idemonstrating Buffy's impotence before a mundane crisis. (And part of the difference is that Tara's revelation was simply implausible, IMO.) Gayle ------------------------------ End of stillpt-digest V2 #219 *****************************