From: owner-stillpt-digest@smoe.org (stillpt-digest) To: stillpt-digest@smoe.org Subject: stillpt-digest V2 #205 Reply-To: stillpt@smoe.org Sender: owner-stillpt-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-stillpt-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk stillpt-digest Wednesday, October 25 2000 Volume 02 : Number 205 Today's Subjects: ----------------- b/comments10/24 ["Donald G. Keller" ] b/smg moments ["Donald G. Keller" ] Re: b/comments10/24 [GHighPine@aol.com] Re: Three episodes in... [Dori ] Re: b/comments10/24 [Dori ] Re: b/comments10/24 [meredith ] Angel episode titles [Micole Sudberg ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 15:22:03 -0400 (EDT) From: "Donald G. Keller" Subject: b/comments10/24 Before I forget...can someone be kind enough to run down the =Buffy= and =Angel= episode titles so far this year (and any future ones if available)? My tapes aren't labeled yet. Life's been wacky: I've been working nights a lot (every Tuesday but one--including tonight), and feeling fogged in too much of the time, not alert enough to write anything coherent. Thus my silence. But time now for a few notes about the last couple episodes. It'll surprise nobody that I wasn't wild about the Xander episode ("The Replacement"?). OK but very light, and as usual (cf. "The Zeppo") it interrupted the continuity: no Tara at all, only an amusing "choking" scene from Dawn. Still, some very amusing moments from Anya. "Am not!" (listening to the phone message). "I have a list somewhere." "I anticipate many years before my death." Talking about "the kicking movie" (reminded me of my son Oisin at three years old describing the Rolling Stones' "Paint It, Black" as "the painting song"). In the same scene I got a kick(!) out of Buffy's critique of the martial arts (a subtle dig at Jeff Pruitt?) and her "invading all willy-nilly" line. Good moment where Willow says about her evil twin "I handled it fine!" And getting to see Xander's Snoopy dance, which we heard about all the way back in "Passion." Very good scene where Xander talks encouragingly to Anya about her sudden fear of dying. Reminiscent of his "dadaist pep talk" in "The Freshman" last year. I can't be certain, since I couldn't tell their acting apart as much as I expected to, but I'm guessing that Nicholas Brendon played both Xanders except in scenes where both were present; in those cases he played Desperate Xander and his twin Kelly played Suave Xander. (By which I mean I think it was NB in the scene with Anya just mentioned.) Moving on to this past week's...I liked it better (new scriptwriter, Rebecca Rand Kirshner, good job). Especially the plot twist (and then double twist) with Spike comandeering the doctor/being doublecrossed. Harmony continues to be an amusing airhead. And Spike's dream! We've known for a long time about Spike's ambivalent feelings about Buffy (remember "Hello, cutie" in "Becoming"? Or the very funny scene with the mannequin last week?)(not to mention "Something Blue," or Buffy's line about dating Spike), but this is just hilariously twisted. Still not a =lot= about the ongoing mysteries (two nice-but-no-news Tara & Willow scenes), though the "Who are you?" from Joyce was a true chiller. Can't wait for tonight to find out what's up. Let's sum up here. Credit to Meredith for some of this (from phone conversations and comments here) as well as Dawn Friedman. We know there's Something Up with Tara. We know there's Something Up with Dawn ("Who are you?" "Curds and whey/you don't belong here"). It's suggestive that Tara identifies with Dawn so strongly. (And that Tara mentioned Dawn--as in "back before" in "Restless"--but that was just Buffy's dream...right??) It's suggestive that Dracula repeated Dawn's "you think you know..." speech to Buffy, and that =before= Dracula showed up we had the scene with Joyce not looking forward to an empty house with Buffy going back to college. (And as Dawn F. pointed out, it's not so incongruous that Joyce is clueless about Willow and Tara =before= Dawn shows up, but has a clue afterwards. There's some kind of transition there.) And it's suggestive that Dawn talks about no one knowing the real her, and that Buffy's in for a surprise. (Meredith: I'm not as sure as you that the scene outside Dawn's window in the diary scene--I did look in on it--is a ref to the 1st Slayer's desert. But it's an intriguing idea.) So is there a connection? Between Dracula and Tara and Dawn? Is Dawn an agent in what's going on, or a pawn? (Poet and don't know it.) Will there be some kind of crossover with =Angel= where the latter characters don't know about Dawn? (Is Faith having dreams about Dawn? Remember =her= dream in "This Year's Girl" talked about "little sis coming.") I have a feeling we're going to be very annoyed at a week's hiatus for the Halloween reruns. As for the matter of Riley and Buffy's mutual feelings...it =is= true that Buffy has only ever used the word "love" about Riley in that speech to Angel in "Sanctuary" (a deliberately cruel ploy), despite plentiful opportunities. We should remember the conversation between Buffy and Willow last season ("Something Blue") where Buffy talks about liking Riley a lot, but not finding the fire there. Note also the car conversation in the Xander episode, where Riley uses the word "love" and Buffy very pointedly does not. Also the conversation in "The Yoko Factor" after Buffy sends Angel away, where Riley talks about loving Buffy so much it makes him crazy, and she answers "Tell me about it" (but doesn't verbally reciprocate). (We'll leave aside him saying he loves Buffy in "Who Are You" since Buffy wasn't "there" at the time. But Faith's freakout can't have helped the situation.) And note that this last episode Buffy says she =needs= Riley--and his reaction shot seems to indicate he's waiting to hear her say she loves him--but she doesn't. And what about Buffy's statement that she's never opened up to anyone like she has to Riley? I put that in the same category as her statement to Faith that she'd given her every chance--i.e. statements Buffy may believe but aren't supported by the facts we have. She was resistant to Faith's friendship as often as she offered her own (at times when Faith was resistant); and she's never talked to Riley, at least not onscreen, the way she did to Angel (she's kept a lot from Riley, among other things). Their relationship is more physical, and more healthy in a lot of ways, but it's not as close or as passionate. And Riley knows it. Interesting echo of "Helpless" in the exchange about Riley being just a normal guy--it wasn't enough for Buffy to be normal, after all. But I think she =is= sincere about being satisfied with Riley being normal--that's =his= problem. Enjoyable debate between Willow and Buffy (Marat a vampire victim??), especially Buffy's line about Willow "wearing the smartypants." Smaller things. Nice to see Marc Blucas play basketball; we know he was a college star, and it's obvious from just those closely-cut clips that he is in fact very good indeed (as far as I can tell he wasn't stunt-doubled). And how about those agents named Goodman and Brown? (Hawthorne, anyone?) Good to see Graham get some substantial scenes; more in this one episode than all of last season, I think. Especially liked him seeing "seventeen" fingers. Was that =Dawson's Creek= Spike was watching? Incidentally, Buffy =does= say "You're not going to die" to all the boys. Angel, certainly. (And wasn't it a bit too easy to patch Riley up? No real explanation.) Is that all for now? I guess so. Much more to discuss after tonight, I suspect... ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 15:24:29 -0400 (EDT) From: "Donald G. Keller" Subject: b/smg moments [A sequel to my comments to Ken, which I mostly wrote the night of the season premiere while I was at work, then let sit for =weeks= a paragraph short of being finished.] While Jeff Pruitt may be tired of SMG, I'm not convinced it's a supportable argument that the writers are. As evidence for the opposing argument, let's make a list of 4th-season moments that the writers gave SMG and that she executed. I'm leaving "Hush" and "Restless" to the side in this discussion, since they both fire on all cylinders, including the acting of all concerned, and are not as vulnerable to the general shortcomings of the season. 1. Buffy Around the Bend in "Living Conditions." Not quite up to Bad Mood Buffy in "When She Was Bad" (2nd season), but effective at portraying Buffy's behavior worrying her friends. The pout at Giles and the glare at Oz and Xander while she was tied up were nice touches. 2. Cave Slayer in "Beer Bad." Nice comic performance. ("Foamy!" "Say 'bye!") 3. Spike's Fiancee in "Something Blue." Terrific comic performance (she does vapid =so well=). Kudos to Marsters also: they were hilarious =before= they were engaged, even more so after. 4. Faith as Buffy in "Who Are You." Bravura. (Points off, though, for the writers' not giving Dushku as much of a chance to match the performance.) 5. "Betty" in "Superstar." A nicely-drawn portrayal of how diminished self-confidence would permeate Buffy's entire personality. Let's pause here a moment. Do you see the interesting thread running through all of these? Buffy acting =out of character= in one way or another. This may indicate the writers' boredom with Buffy-as-usual, but it seems to me the very opposite of boredom with the actor. Speaking of Buffy-as-usual: 6. Doomed Buffy in "Doomed." If we tend to think that Buffy's relationship with Riley has been a bit too easy (and we do), it's because we forget the two bitter scenes in the course of this episode. Not so much the beginning--the continuation of the blackout from "Hush"--nor the end--which still seems to me undermotivated: what exactly changed Buffy's mind?--but the scenes in the graveyard and in downtown Sunnydale. Kudos to Marc Blucas here: he's not a great actor and got off to a nervous start, but these scenes are his second-best performance so far. (The best was Riley stressed and in withdrawal in "Goodbye Iowa." Which reminds me--add to these two scenes the "happy about death" argument from the latter episode.) He conveys very well that Riley, an easygoing guy most of the time, isn't going to let Buffy just walk away like Angel always did. Pause for another thought. SMG is quite capable of carrying a scene by herself (we could make a list of monologues...), but when she has a good foil (whether one or more of her peers, like the other three principals, or someone somewhat lesser, like Boreanaz or Blucas) that she can play off of, sometimes the results are even better. (Hold that thought--I'll get to Eliza Dushku in a moment.) Next, two moments from =Angel=, both at least partly Whedon-written: 7. "I Will Remember You," strong throughout but best in the final Buffy&Angel scene, so emotionally powerful I haven't subjected myself to it in a long while now; it works in spite (although actually because) of the fact that it's same-old-Buffy&Angel. 8. Avenging Buffy in "Sanctuary," especially the "If you apologize to me I'll beat you to death" line and the look-that-could-kill that precedes it. Note that she's the foil, not the lead, in this episode. Keep holding that prior thought... ...while I start another list of smaller acting moments I liked during the season: 1. The Faith/Buffy standoff in "This Year's Girl." Possibly the best single scene in the entire season, SMG's quieter performance running Buffy through a whole series of emotional reactions squared off against Dushku's more flamboyant (but actually no less subtle) performance conveying Faith's usual breezy exuberance masking obdurate menace. (And let's not forget a good supporting contribution from Alison Hannigan.) So let's talk about Eliza Dushku for a minute. There seems no question that she is SMG's peer talentwise, and as Ken points out her tremendous energy kickstarts any episode she's in. It's also interesting that in a sense SMG "defers" to her in their scenes together; as similarly SMG did with Charisma Carpenter when Cordelia was still on =Buffy=; the internal reason is that Cordelia and Faith are two people who can cow Buffy a little. Both actors tend to be a little broader than SMG (quite intentionally), which allows SMG to underplay for contrast. And the campus scene in "This Year's Girl" is a particularly strong example of just that: Dushku carries the scene, with SMG playing a good foil. (As was the case in many of their 3rd-season scenes.) 2. Xander's "dadaist pep talk" in "The Freshman." Nicholas Brendon gets the honors here (again) because he carries the scene with SMG as foil; it's the strongest scene in the first few episodes. 3. The touching Buffy & Riley scene in "This Year's Girl": "You've been strong long enough, Riley Finn." 4. The equally touching reconciliation between Buffy and Willow in "Primeval." 3. Brief but menacing SMG speeches: "you don't know what a Slayer is" to Maggie Walsh in "The 'I' in Team"; "you're on =my= turf" to the colonel in "Primeval"; "your trademark stoicism" to Oz in "Wild at Heart"; "no prophecy about the Slayer and her friends" in "The Yoko Factor." 4. Good reaction shots: catching Spike's slip in "Primeval"; trying to hide her startlement at Willow's revelation in "New Moon Rising." It seems to me that these lists suggest that Buffy didn't =only= get "angry and whiny" (though she did a lot of both), and that there was plenty for SMG to do in the 4th season. The question remains: if I were to make a similar list for previous seasons (=especially= the 2nd), wouldn't it be longer? Probably. But my point in all this was not to suggest the 4th season was as good as previous seasons, only that it wasn't a total loss. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 17:02:19 EDT From: GHighPine@aol.com Subject: Re: b/comments10/24 In a message dated 10/24/00 12:25:08 PM Pacific Daylight Time, dgk@panix.com writes: << So is there a connection? Between Dracula and Tara and Dawn? >> Before she was cast, there was a well-publicized casting call for Buffy's little sister. I wouldn't be surprised if that turned out to be deliberate misdirection intended to make us discount Dawn's resemblance to Tara, and if some connection to Tara is revealed tonight. As far as last week's ep, it gave me hope that there =may= perhaps actually be a long-term plot reason in the works for Riley's presence in the show. Last season =may= have actually been prologue for a more Joss-worthy arc. Maybe. I loved the ending to last ep. Love/hate sexual tension between Spike and Buffy is vastly more exciting than the Buffy/Riley relationship. Always has been, now that promises to be turned up. Gayle ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 11:36:30 -0400 From: Dori Subject: Re: Three episodes in... >P.S. A quick note from the Xenaverse: in case anyone was wondering, >apparently the Hellmouth was formerly in Amphipolis, before it opened up in >Sunndale. Who knew? Kimberley Rector and Martha Wells. They've almost finished a Buffy/Herk/Xena crossover novel. http://www.rtis.com/nat/user/chimera/index2.htm - -- Dori cleindori@rica.net - -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- "Some illusions are worth any price you pay for them." Jane Mortimer - -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 20:40:40 -0400 From: Dori Subject: Re: b/comments10/24 >Was that =Dawson's Creek= Spike was watching? Yep. And I must say that I'm crushed--CRUSHED, I tell you--to find that Spike is just not behind the Pacey/Joey 'ship... - -- Dori cleindori@rica.net - -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- "Some illusions are worth any price you pay for them." Jane Mortimer - -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 21:23:20 -0400 From: meredith Subject: Re: b/comments10/24 Hi! Responses to Don's comments in light of the episode just finished. SPOILER WARNING!!! >Before I forget...can someone be kind enough to run down the =Buffy= >and =Angel= episode titles so far this year (and any future ones if >available)? My tapes aren't labeled yet. I can't help you with _Angel_, but the _Buffy_ titles so far are: Buffy vs. Dracula The Real Me The Replacement Out Of My Mind No Place Like Home I don't have any information on future titles, sorry. >Moving on to this past week's...I liked it better (new scriptwriter, >Rebecca Rand Kirshner, good job). Especially the plot twist (and then >double twist) with Spike comandeering the doctor/being >doublecrossed. Harmony continues to be an amusing airhead. She was a stitch. Seeing her name in the guest credits made me happy. >And Spike's >dream! We've known for a long time about Spike's ambivalent feelings about >Buffy (remember "Hello, cutie" in "Becoming"? Or the very funny scene with >the mannequin last week?)(not to mention "Something Blue," or Buffy's line >about dating Spike), but this is just hilariously twisted. I *love* it. And the scene this week where they followed it up ... oh, this is going to be SO delicious. >Still not a =lot= about the ongoing mysteries (two nice-but-no-news Tara & >Willow scenes), though the "Who are you?" from Joyce was a true >chiller. Can't wait for tonight to find out what's up. So now we know, and Buffy knows, but nobody else does. The obvious question is: will Buffy tell? And if so, whom will she tell? Will they believe her? I'm convinced that Joyce's illness has a direct correlation to Dawn's presence. >It's >suggestive that Tara identifies with Dawn so strongly. (And that Tara >mentioned Dawn--as in "back before" in "Restless"--but that was just >Buffy's dream...right??) Is the "Abomination" really the Weird Science woman from the factory (what was UP with her, anyway?!)? Or is it significant that we didn't see Tara at all in this episode? >It's suggestive that Dracula repeated Dawn's "you >think you know..." speech to Buffy, and that =before= Dracula showed up we >had the scene with Joyce not looking forward to an empty house with Buffy >going back to college. That's another thing. We know from last week that summer is over, and classes have started up again. Is Buffy living at home this year? And if so, why? Does Willow have her own dorm room, or is she shacked up with Tara? >And it's suggestive that Dawn talks about no one knowing the real >her, and that Buffy's in for a surprise. The monk said that Dawn doesn't know who she is, but I'm thinking that's not entirely accurate. >(Meredith: I'm not as sure as you >that the scene outside Dawn's window in the diary scene--I did look in on >it--is a ref to the 1st Slayer's desert. But it's an intriguing idea.) I guess we have never seen Buffy's backyard, but it looks just a bit too barren to me. And the way it was shot would certainly seem to have deliberately emphasized the view out the window. Or maybe I'm just projecting again. :) >So is there a connection? Between Dracula and Tara and Dawn? Is Dawn an >agent in what's going on, or a pawn? (Poet and don't know it.) Now we know she's a pawn ... or at least a key. >Will there >be some kind of crossover with =Angel= where the latter characters don't >know about Dawn? (Is Faith having dreams about Dawn? Remember =her= dream >in "This Year's Girl" talked about "little sis coming.") While that would be intriguing, now I'm not so sure that's going to happen. >I have a feeling we're going to be very annoyed at a week's hiatus for the >Halloween reruns. I'm annoyed, but only because I want to find out how Buffy is going to handle this with regard to the rest of the gang. And now, back to last week's episode. >Smaller things. Nice to see Marc Blucas play basketball; we know he was a >college star, and it's obvious from just those closely-cut clips that he >is in fact very good indeed (as far as I can tell he wasn't >stunt-doubled). But as Rob pointed out: who the hell plays basketball in jeans? What, is he from Iowa or something? >Was that =Dawson's Creek= Spike was watching? Yes. And I was *howling*. Utterly brilliant. But that's not even my favorite moment of the ep. That was when Buffy said "You're like my Q". Rob and I turned to each other and said, "Q?!?", and right on -- well -- cue, Buffy replied, "Q as in Bond, not Star Trek." We were both on the floor. :> >(And wasn't it a bit too easy to patch Riley >up? No real explanation.) That whole thing was rather lame. How does one do brain surgery on a vampire without leaving any noticeable scarring at all? Back to baseball (gods, but I'll be glad when all this sports stuff is over ... I need some sleep!), +==========================================================================+ | Meredith Tarr meth@smoe.org | | New Haven, CT USA http://www.smoe.org/~meth | +==========================================================================+ | "things are more beautiful when they're obscure" -- veda hille | | *** TRAJECTORY, the Veda Hille mailing list: *** | | *** http://www.smoe.org/meth/trajectory.html *** | +==========================================================================+ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 00:22:54 -0400 From: Micole Sudberg Subject: Angel episode titles At 03:22 PM 10/24/00 -0400, Donald G. Keller wrote: >Before I forget...can someone be kind enough to run down the =Buffy= >and =Angel= episode titles so far this year (and any future ones if >available)? My tapes aren't labeled yet. Judgment Are You Now or Have You Ever Been First Impressions Untouched Dear Boy - -- "There's trees in the desert since you moved out. And I don't sleep on a bed of bones."--Joss Whedon, BUFFY THE VAMPIRE SLAYER ------------------------------ End of stillpt-digest V2 #205 *****************************