From: owner-stillpt-digest@smoe.org (stillpt-digest) To: stillpt-digest@smoe.org Subject: stillpt-digest V2 #157 Reply-To: stillpt@smoe.org Sender: owner-stillpt-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-stillpt-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk stillpt-digest Friday, July 21 2000 Volume 02 : Number 157 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Buffy Emmy nomination [Todd Huff ] Re: Buffy Emmy nomination ["Marta Grabien" ] Re: Forever Knight (was Re: b/redemption) [GHighPine@aol.com] Re: Buffy Emmy nomination [GHighPine@aol.com] Re: Buffy Emmy nomination [meredith ] Re: Buffy Emmy nomination [GHighPine@aol.com] Re: Buffy Emmy nomination [Todd Huff ] Re: Forever Knight (was Re: b/redemption) [Dawn Friedman ] Re: Buffy Emmy nomination [GHighPine@aol.com] Re: b/klhmemo: The deLint factor ["David S. Bratman" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2000 07:57:21 -0700 (PDT) From: Todd Huff Subject: Buffy Emmy nomination Buffy has finally gotten it's first Emmy nomination. HUSH has been nominated for best writing in a dramatic series. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get Yahoo! Mail – Free email you can access from anywhere! http://mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2000 09:21:22 -0700 From: "Marta Grabien" Subject: Re: Buffy Emmy nomination > Buffy has finally gotten it's first Emmy nomination. > > HUSH has been nominated for best writing in a dramatic series. Alll right! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2000 13:56:19 EDT From: GHighPine@aol.com Subject: Re: Forever Knight (was Re: b/redemption) In a message dated 7/19/00 11:15:50 PM Pacific Daylight Time, cleindori@rica.net writes: << One longs to see Vachon's take on Angel. Or better yet, Spike. >> Unfortunately I haven't seen FK enough or recently enough to remember all the characters' names. Was Vachon the white-haired vampire? If so, I totally agree with you. Well, I can guess how he'd react to Angel (he'd probably have the same incredulous contempt for Angel's conscience as he did for Nick Knight's conscience). But boy, I'd love to see how the two white-haired vamps hit it off. A big difference between Buffy / Angel vamps and the FK vamps is that in FK the vampires had an underground society with their own laws and were expected to have some loyalty to each other and protect each other, while there is no hint of such loyalty in B / A. If Spike were transplanted to the FK universe, I'll bet he'd get in trouble fast. Gayle ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2000 16:26:40 EDT From: GHighPine@aol.com Subject: Re: Buffy Emmy nomination In a message dated 7/20/00 9:23:47 AM Pacific Daylight Time, sfmarty1@home.com writes: << > Buffy has finally gotten it's first Emmy nomination. > > HUSH has been nominated for best writing in a dramatic series. >> No nomination for best directing? Most TV directing, even for the best shows, is routine and pedestrian. Nothing like Hush. BTW, I noticed on second viewing that one of the reasons the acting was so effective was that the actors really =were= speaking and shouting at the appropriate times. Simply moving their lips would not have been as effective because they would not have breathed the same way. (That is why Veruca's lip-syncing seemed fake even though well-timed to the music; she wasn't breathing like someone who was really singing.) Are you sure this is Buffy's first Emmy nom? I thought I heard that Becoming 2 won an Emmy for best incidental music. (Which Hush should definitely have gotten as well.) Gayle ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2000 20:45:43 -0400 From: meredith Subject: Re: Buffy Emmy nomination Hi! Todd reported: > Buffy has finally gotten it's first Emmy nomination. Yay!!! It's about *!(^ time. > HUSH has been nominated for best writing in a dramatic series. Ah, I'd heard that was the episode they were sending around (well, duh). Glad to see it finally woke people up. Gayle retorted: > No nomination for best directing? Most TV directing, even for the best >shows, is routine and pedestrian. Nothing like Hush. Hey, at least it got nominated for *something*. That's better than tbe big goose egg the show has been handed for the past three years. > BTW, I noticed on second viewing that one of the reasons the acting was so >effective was that the actors really =were= speaking and shouting at the >appropriate times. Simply moving their lips would not have been as effective >because they would not have breathed the same way. (That is why Veruca's >lip-syncing seemed fake even though well-timed to the music; she wasn't >breathing like someone who was really singing.) Were they actually speaking, or were they doing the "silent scream", thing, I wonder? > Are you sure this is Buffy's first Emmy nom? I thought I heard that >Becoming 2 won an Emmy for best incidental music. (Which Hush should >definitely have gotten as well.) I don't recall hearing that. Of course I may have missed it. +==========================================================================+ | Meredith Tarr meth@smoe.org | | New Haven, CT USA http://www.smoe.org/~meth | +==========================================================================+ | "things are more beautiful when they're obscure" -- veda hille | | *** TRAJECTORY, the Veda Hille mailing list: *** | | *** http://www.smoe.org/meth/trajectory.html *** | +==========================================================================+ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2000 22:07:02 EDT From: GHighPine@aol.com Subject: Re: Buffy Emmy nomination In a message dated 7/20/00 5:55:56 PM Pacific Daylight Time, meth@smoe.org writes: << > BTW, I noticed on second viewing that one of the reasons the acting was so >effective was that the actors really =were= speaking and shouting at the >appropriate times. Simply moving their lips would not have been as effective >because they would not have breathed the same way. (That is why Veruca's >lip-syncing seemed fake even though well-timed to the music; she wasn't >breathing like someone who was really singing.) Were they actually speaking, or were they doing the "silent scream", thing, I wonder? >> What's the "silent scream" thing? A way of breathing and moving your throat and diaphragm as though screaming? That has to be a very difficult skill to master. And how often would it be called for? On stage people could not see your throat and diaphragm that closely, and on screen, why use it when real screaming will do? If "silent scream" means simply opening your mouth wide as though screaming, the point I was making was exactly that (although most shows would probably have let the actors do that) that was =not= what they were doing in Hush; in the screaming moments, the actors' throats and diaphragms showed real screaming. But just wanted to add, the one place where they did seem to be silently moving their lips instead of speaking was Giles' slide presentation. And I didn't intend to "retort" about the directing; just surprised that it wasn't recognized when it was conspicuously superior to most TV dramatic directing. The music, too. Gayle ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2000 19:21:29 -0700 (PDT) From: Todd Huff Subject: Re: Buffy Emmy nomination > If "silent scream" means simply opening your > mouth wide as though > screaming, the point I was making was exactly that > (although most shows would > probably have let the actors do that) that was =not= > what they were doing in > Hush; in the screaming moments, the actors' throats > and diaphragms showed > real screaming. > Perhaps they really were and just didn't use the audio? > But just wanted to add, the one place where they > did seem to be silently > moving their lips instead of speaking was Giles' > slide presentation. > By then they may have resorted to pantomiming to help get their thoughts across. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get Yahoo! Mail – Free email you can access from anywhere! http://mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2000 22:00:02 -0400 From: Dawn Friedman Subject: Re: Forever Knight (was Re: b/redemption) At 02:16 AM 7/20/00 -0400, Dori wrote: >Gayle said (and I'm chiming in late because of travel): >> Supporting characters are different, of course -- each ensemble >>entertaining in its own way. > >One longs to see Vachon's take on Angel. > >Or better yet, Spike. Just for another point of view, IMHO Vachon was a bit of fluff, and Angel would eat him alive. Spike, on the other hand, might fall for Natalie. He likes strong women. And redheads. Of course, that doesn't mean he wouldn't try to kill her. >And he'd have -so- much fun Whammying Xander... I dunno -- on the one hand, yes, Xander is Everyman and wouldn't be immune. On the other hand, he's had to cope with so many kinds of disorientation so often in the past four years that he may have his own devious ways of stumbling back to the truth. >> FK also was frankly darker and less hesitant about going into dark >> recesses of the soul. OK, this just baffles me. FK spent a lot of time *talking* about dark recesses of the soul. And they did hold a Gauda Prime party at the end. But the most interesting recess they got into, to me, was LaCroix's obsession with Nick, which prevented him from writing Nick off and going on with his unlife. That was fun. But for persuasive, disturbing darkness, I'd cite Xander's reaction to Anya's confession of love -- over any number of Nick's flashbacks. > This is one thing that just annoys me about ANGEL. I had thought >that we were going to get a lot darker show than we have, and I wish the >network weren't so antsy about it. But maybe next season... Agreed. Dawn ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2000 22:31:43 -0400 From: meredith Subject: Re: Buffy Emmy nomination Hi! Gayle responded: > What's the "silent scream" thing? A way of breathing and moving your >throat and diaphragm as though screaming? Right. What you do when you're stuck in a really, really bad dream. >That has to be a very difficult >skill to master. And how often would it be called for? On stage people >could not see your throat and diaphragm that closely, and on screen, why use >it when real screaming will do? I guess you have a point. But I thought I heard somewhere that the ep was filmed in silence, and it was really hard for the actors to do. Maybe I just hallucinated that part. > And I didn't intend to "retort" about the directing; just surprised that it >wasn't recognized when it was conspicuously superior to most TV dramatic >directing. The music, too. I wasn't making a value judgement. :) It's just a thing I do - I hate using the verbs "said" or "posted". A long time ago when I was dabbling in fiction writing (before I finally figured out that I can't do it), my sister challenged me to only use the verb "said" once in an entire story. It was a fascinating exercise, and I've found myself doing it in e-mail for years. :) +==========================================================================+ | Meredith Tarr meth@smoe.org | | New Haven, CT USA http://www.smoe.org/~meth | +==========================================================================+ | "things are more beautiful when they're obscure" -- veda hille | | *** TRAJECTORY, the Veda Hille mailing list: *** | | *** http://www.smoe.org/meth/trajectory.html *** | +==========================================================================+ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2000 23:21:37 EDT From: GHighPine@aol.com Subject: Re: Buffy Emmy nomination In a message dated 7/20/00 7:23:40 PM Pacific Daylight Time, thuff_007@yahoo.com writes: << in the screaming moments, the actors' throats > and diaphragms showed > real screaming. > Perhaps they really were and just didn't use the audio? >> That is exactly what they were doing, as I was saying. Even if subliminally, real screaming helped to make the horror more effective than if they had merely stretched open their mouths. The fact that so many viewers thought that Veruca's lip-syncing was "off" (despite the fact that it was well-timed with the music) testifies to how much people subliminally notice breathing. Veruca wasn't breathing like a singer. I was conscious of how she breathed (as well as how the screamers breathed) because I am a singer myself, and as a player of wind instruments. If Veruca had wanted to be convincing, she would have sung along with the music no matter what her voice really sounds like. Gayle ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2000 01:03:59 -0400 (EDT) From: "David S. Bratman" Subject: Re: b/klhmemo: The deLint factor Ken said that I explained "the deLint factor" as being authorial use of college students as protagonists who have nothing else to do. I remember writing that comment, though I can't find it on a quick browse through the archives, but I must have miswritten my intention if I called it by that title. Its actual name in my pantheon of authorial ticks is "Guy Gavriel Kay Disease". And Meredith wrote: > On _Buffy_, the story isn't the curriculum. It doesn't need to be. Indeed not, but nobody claimed that it was or should be. But like the humor, the fact that the characters are in school is an important part of the background. It adds to the piquancy, to the depth and passion of the show. The theme of _Buffy_, if it's anything, is not that she fights vampires, but that she's trying to balance that and have a life at the same time. This came out again as recently as the "I walk; I talk" speech. And part of this is being in school. A constant situation throughout the high-school years and up until Walsh's death was this conflict: Buffy had to patrol but she also had to study for a test, etc. All of a sudden that's vanished, and the absence is noticed. The show doesn't have to be about these things for them to play a part. A good example of the use of both school and humor comes in Anya's famous speech, the one quoted on the front of her sub-page on the "5 by 5" page that Donald told us about. (btw, about that URL "i.am" -- the top-level "am" is Armenia, which is probably selling off domains like other poor countries are) The one in which she complains about how she once was a powerful demon and now she's a helpless teenager -- "and" (punch line) "I'm flunking math." > I don't know about anyone else here, but when I think of "college", the > memories that come to mind aren't of the classes I took. They're of all > the cool things I did *outside* of class, most of which gave me more > education than a lot of my courses. Not to deny the validity of your reactions, but this is the conventional attitude. Everybody, it seems, says that. It makes me feel like some kind of inhuman alien to admit that I find many of my classes engrossing and valuable, that I enjoyed many of them, that I spent a lot of my time thinking about schoolwork and things that came up as a result of this. And yes, I had a vivid and engrossing life outside of class too, which I remember just as fondly. Why can't there be both? Willow, I'm sure, feels this way. From her comments about school, when she gets to make them, she sounds like someone who wouldn't want to give up her fascinating intellectual life from class any more than she'd want to give up being a Slayerette (a term she coined, don't forget). ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2000 01:12:14 -0400 (EDT) From: "David S. Bratman" Subject: Re: b/vampnotes On Mon, 17 Jul 2000, Donald G. Keller wrote: > As far as she can discern, the word entered the European languages > =roughly= about 1700, give or take a decade or so. (The best guess > is that the original word is Bulgarian, or other Slavic language.) > She states that the =OED= earliest citation is wrong, having found > an instance (metaphorical, no less! "Vampires of the Publick") > written in 1688. But this sort of thing can be dodgy to pin down. "wrong"? It is a common misinterpretation, but erroneous no matter how common it may be, to assume that the OED offers any guarantee whatever that its earliest citation is the first use of the word. A full history of a word with illustrative quotations from all periods is the OED's assignment, and with both primary and transformed meanings (the latter in the same phrase, "vampires of the public") from the period 1734/41, the OED has done its job properly. ------------------------------ End of stillpt-digest V2 #157 *****************************