From: owner-stillpt-digest@smoe.org (stillpt-digest) To: stillpt-digest@smoe.org Subject: stillpt-digest V2 #147 Reply-To: stillpt@smoe.org Sender: owner-stillpt-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-stillpt-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk stillpt-digest Tuesday, July 11 2000 Volume 02 : Number 147 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Xena question [GHighPine@aol.com] Re: b/Becoming [GHighPine@aol.com] b/Buffy S. meets Harry P. ["David S. Bratman" ] Re: Xena question ["Berni Phillips" ] Re: Xena question [Todd Huff ] Re: Xena question [meredith ] Re: b/Buffy S. meets Harry P. ["Susan Kroupa" ] Re: Xena question ["David S. Bratman" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2000 11:55:23 EDT From: GHighPine@aol.com Subject: Xena question Okay, here is something that might spark a little bit of summer discussion. Or not. (I've been waiting for summer rerun season to ask this.) I don't watch Xena, on any regular basis; I've seen two or three eps, and while I found it quite entertaining, I wasn't hooked enough to make an effort to look for it on a regular basis. So my question for the Xena-watchers is: am I really missing out on something? In the sense that I would be really missing out on something if I didn't watch Buffy? Opinions? Gayle ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2000 11:54:59 EDT From: GHighPine@aol.com Subject: Re: b/Becoming In a message dated 7/9/00 7:07:53 PM Pacific Daylight Time, dbratman@genie.idt.net writes: << I couldn't think of any other reason for Buffy to do this. Though by the time I read Gayle's last post, it was slowly dawning on me that sending Angel to hell was the only way to keep the demon from waking up. Is this correct? >> Yes. And swallowing the whole world into hell. << But if this is so, at what point did this necessity become clear to Buffy, >> Whistler's exposition in Giles' apartment. << and is it before any of the scenes where she seems still genuinely hopeful that his soul could be restored? >> No, that was after she had given up hope. Gayle ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2000 16:55:49 -0400 (EDT) From: "David S. Bratman" Subject: b/Buffy S. meets Harry P. Interesting review of the new Harry Potter book on _Salon_ today (no serious plot spoilers), including two specific references to _Buffy_, one of them to the ending of "Becoming" ... http://www.salon.com/books/review/2000/07/10/potter/index.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2000 18:19:55 -0700 From: "Berni Phillips" Subject: Re: Xena question >From: GHighPine@aol.com > So my question for the Xena-watchers is: am I really missing out on >something? > > In the sense that I would be really missing out on something if I didn't >watch Buffy? > > Opinions? > > Gayle I watch Xena and I'd have to say that it's pretty uneven. I'd say it's even purposefully uneven. They seem to alternate serious and silly episodes and the quality goes up and down as well. The writing is not as good as on Buffy. What seems to attract people are several things. I have some female friends who really enjoy seeing female action heroes (they're also Buffy fans, of course). The friendship between Xena and Gabrielle is very strong, so it's a good female bonding thing, and they also skirt the issue of whether their love is sisterly or Sapphic. (Lots of fanfic potential.) And they really have been pushing the envelope the past couple of years in what they do to their characters! At the end of last year (not the current season being re-run), they crucified both Xena and Gabrielle and they died! Where do you go from there? They were, of course, resurrected via a mishmosh of various religious/mythic ideas. So if your time is very limited, don't watch it. If you want something else to watch, do watch it. And be aware that if you've caught a silly episode and you don't like silly, that next week's may be dead serious. (My favorite silly episode was one where we saw Xena and Garbrielle not,er, at their best. That is, as they would probably be in real life in those days without shampoo and conditioner and the modern conveniences so obviously used on the actresses. And the buzzing lice Xena kept killing were rather amusing.) Berni ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2000 18:45:38 -0700 (PDT) From: Todd Huff Subject: Re: Xena question > > So my question for the Xena-watchers is: am I > really missing out on > something? > > In the sense that I would be really missing out on > something if I didn't > watch Buffy? > Generally, no. There have been some good dramatic episodes and some really great comedic moments, but it's not nearly the same caliber of writing. I usually watch it, but don't get upset if I miss one. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get Yahoo! Mail – Free email you can access from anywhere! http://mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2000 21:42:50 -0400 From: meredith Subject: Re: Xena question Hi! Gayle inquired: > So my question for the Xena-watchers is: am I really missing out on >something? > > In the sense that I would be really missing out on something if I didn't >watch Buffy? It depends on what you mean by "something". If you mean "something that is going to go down as a defining moment in fin-de-siecle popular culture", then yes. If you mean "something that is going to go down as one of the best television shows of all time", then no, not really. As Berni pointed out, it is really uneven. The producers of X:WP are blatantly uninterested in continuity and in depicting their characters in a consistent fashion. When put next to _Buffy_, it is by far the weaker show. Yet somehow they've managed to come up with something that has captured the imagination of millions of people around the world, and become the standard against which all other fantastical action series are judged. If it helps, a couple notes about where I'm coming from with it personally: There is something about _Xena_ that has inspired me to join media fandom (something I never, ever considered getting into before); buy action figures; religiously pick up the official comic and magazine every month; attend Xena Night in NYC (and gods forbid, even a Creation con); and purchase entire video sets on a season-by-season basis. Something about the "grrls kick ass" premise of the show, not to mention the incredible relationship between Xena and Gabrielle really speaks to the same part of me that never missed an episode of _Cagney and Lacey_ when I was younger. (And yeah, the eye candy factor doesn't hurt, either. :} While I will gladly discuss the finer points of _Buffy_ and help run Don's mailing list on the subject, I haven't been as moved to get caught up in the whole "Buffy fandom thing" like I have with _Xena_. I used to pick on my sister regularly for watching it, until I stumbled across the episode that was a spoof of _Raiders of the Lost Ark_ and realized the show doesn't take itself seriously. Once I knew that, I couldn't stop tuning in to see what piece of world mythology and/or history they were going to tackle next. (Did you know that Xena did the key-on-the-kite-in-a-thunderstorm trick millenia before Ben Franklin? Or that she invented CPR (to save Gabrielle's life, no less)? Or that Ulysses couldn't have strung his bow when he got home without Xena hiding under the table helping him along? How about that the poet Virgil was the son of Xena and Gabrielle's bumbling sidekick Joxer and a bawdy tavernkeeper named Meg (who also happened to look a hell of a lot like Xena)?) So far they have done takes on the Greek gods; a rather warped version of Christianity; Hindu mythology (not without controversy); Antony and Cleopatra; Julius Ceasar; and Lao Tzu, among many, many others. This coming season they will apparently tackle the Bedouins and the Ring Cycle. Suspend your disbelief at the door and just go along for the ride. :) The USA Network used to show reruns every night at 7 pm, but they don't any more, and apparently the Sci-Fi Channel is going to be dropping their weekly reruns too (if they haven't already). But if you're interested in starting from scratch I'd be willing to help you along -- I've got 'em all on tape. :) While they aren't huge on continuity or big story arcs like Joss Whedon is, it does help to start from the beginning. Gabrielle's character in particular has become a completely different person over the course of the 5 seasons, and not only as far as appearance goes. (In fact, one could argue that at this point, the show is more about Gabrielle's journey than Xena's, but I'll leave that for the other posting boards I'm on. :) Berni commented: >(My >favorite silly episode was one where we saw Xena and Garbrielle not,er, at >their best. That is, as they would probably be in real life in those days >without shampoo and conditioner and the modern conveniences so obviously >used on the actresses. And the buzzing lice Xena kept killing were rather >amusing.) Ewww! Only the unspeakable horror that was the one where Gabrielle married Joxer in the mermaid movie was a worse episode than that one. My favorite silly one remains "A Day In The Life". To each his own! :) So anyway, I hope that helps a little, Gayle... +==========================================================================+ | Meredith Tarr meth@smoe.org | | New Haven, CT USA http://www.smoe.org/~meth | +==========================================================================+ | "things are more beautiful when they're obscure" -- veda hille | | *** TRAJECTORY, the Veda Hille mailing list: *** | | *** http://www.smoe.org/meth/trajectory.html *** | +==========================================================================+ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2000 21:35:00 -0700 From: "Susan Kroupa" Subject: Re: b/Buffy S. meets Harry P. David, thanks for the heads up. I enjoyed the review! Sue - ----- Original Message ----- From: David S. Bratman To: Sent: Monday, July 10, 2000 1:55 PM Subject: b/Buffy S. meets Harry P. > Interesting review of the new Harry Potter book on _Salon_ today (no > serious plot spoilers), including two specific references to _Buffy_, one > of them to the ending of "Becoming" ... > > http://www.salon.com/books/review/2000/07/10/potter/index.html > > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2000 00:08:21 -0400 (EDT) From: "David S. Bratman" Subject: Re: Xena question On Mon, 10 Jul 2000, meredith wrote: > I used to pick on my sister regularly for watching it, until I stumbled > across the episode that was a spoof of _Raiders of the Lost Ark_ and > realized the show doesn't take itself seriously. Once I knew that, I > couldn't stop tuning in to see what piece of world mythology and/or history > they were going to tackle next. (Did you know that Xena did the > key-on-the-kite-in-a-thunderstorm trick millenia before Ben Franklin? Or > that she invented CPR (to save Gabrielle's life, no less)? Or that Ulysses > couldn't have strung his bow when he got home without Xena hiding under the > table helping him along? How about that the poet Virgil was the son of > Xena and Gabrielle's bumbling sidekick Joxer and a bawdy tavernkeeper named > Meg (who also happened to look a hell of a lot like Xena)?) Insofar as I've watched Xena, the silly episodes have gotten better (i.e. sillier) as they've gone on. (Modern-day Joxer takes Xena to psychiatrist was my favorite.) But the semi-serious semi-silly ones like you're describing struck me, especially in the early years, as just stupid. Julius Caesar one week, King David the next. And Xena is always so much annoyingly better than anybody, and they owe all their fame to her. It was almost like the deadly serious, and deadly awful, Jean Auel books (Clan of the Care Bears, er I mean Cave Bear, and sequels). Mixing humor and seriousness in fantasy can be a tough business. Mixing humor and horror is even tougher, and I can't think of anyone but John Bellairs who did it better than Joss. ------------------------------ End of stillpt-digest V2 #147 *****************************