From: owner-stillpt-digest@smoe.org (stillpt-digest) To: stillpt-digest@smoe.org Subject: stillpt-digest V2 #117 Reply-To: stillpt@smoe.org Sender: owner-stillpt-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-stillpt-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk stillpt-digest Thursday, May 25 2000 Volume 02 : Number 117 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: b/season finale ["Susan Kroupa" ] Re: b/season finale ["Susan Kroupa" ] Re: b/season finale ["Hilary L. Hertzoff" ] Re: b/season finale ["David S. Bratman" ] Re: b/season finale [GHighPine@aol.com] Adam (was Re: b/season finale) ["David S. Bratman" ] Re: restless?? [meredith ] Re: b/season finale [meredith ] m/Kristeen Young cybercast [meredith ] b/willow writing [meredith ] Re: b/season finale ["Berni Phillips" ] Re: b/season finale [Todd Huff ] Re: b/season finale [Todd Huff ] b/Restless [Todd Huff ] Re: b/season finale [meredith ] Re: restless?? [allenw ] Re: b/season finale ["Susan Kroupa" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 08:27:58 -0700 From: "Susan Kroupa" Subject: Re: b/season finale Thanks, David, for the plot summary. I didn't notice that the guy Riley was with was Adam. But I thought the demon's voice in ANGEL sounded a lot like Adam's voice. Maybe it's the masks. Sue - ----- Original Message ----- From: David S. Bratman To: Sent: Wednesday, May 24, 2000 12:04 AM Subject: Re: b/season finale > On Tue, 23 May 2000, Susan Kroupa wrote: > > > Unfortunately, my tape got fouled up and missed the opening scene. ARRRRGH! > > It starts with Willow's dream. > > It begins at Joyce's house, with Riley heading off for a debriefing which > he assures Buffy will be no big deal: he just has to promise to keep his > mouth shut about the Initiative. Joyce makes a pointed remark about how > nice it was to _finally_ meet Riley, which Buffy pointedly ignores. > > The four core scoobies sit down to pig out on videos. Xander wants to > watch _Apocalypse Now_: the others are not so keen, having just lived it. > Joyce says she's tired and goes to bed: the others swear they're still > too keyed up from the fight to sleep, but they all conk out anyway. > That's when Willow's dream starts. > > Yes, an all-dream episode: Don will be in heaven. > > I found it interesting how the dreams reflected each dreamer's > character. It seems that what Willow really fears, for instance, is that > nobody really likes her: that even Tara and Oz are sniggering _together_ > behind her back. Xander, of course we know what Xander dreams about. > And Giles can't stop being a Watcher no matter what, even when he's > singing. (My favorite scene, actually, but mostly for Anya trying to > tell a joke. But it's certainly also a key scene for the unraveling of > this episode's plot.) > > And then, of course, there's the key character in all the dreams, whose > increasing importance even when offstage has been noticable for a while > now. And no, I don't mean the cheese guy. > > I trust that everyone noticed that the guy sitting with Riley in the > "Surgeon General" scene of Buffy's dream was apparently the earlier human > incarnation of Adam: not that it either looked or sounded like him, but > the script so implies and I noticed the Adam actor's name in the opening > credits. > > > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 08:36:00 -0700 From: "Susan Kroupa" Subject: Re: b/season finale I found it interesting how prominently Tara figured in the dreams--not just in Willow's, which would be expected, but in Buffy's. So Willow is not yet comfortable with her relationship with Tara. It's hard to sort out the "prophetic" elements of the dreams from the subconscious ones--maybe that's a false division anyway. But the fact that Tara is hiding something is even more obvious after this episode. And I loved the fact that the bed Buffy and Faith made reappeared in Buffy's dream. Sue - ----- Original Message ----- From: David S. Bratman To: Sent: Wednesday, May 24, 2000 12:04 AM Subject: Re: b/season finale > On Tue, 23 May 2000, Susan Kroupa wrote: > > > Unfortunately, my tape got fouled up and missed the opening scene. ARRRRGH! > > It starts with Willow's dream. > > It begins at Joyce's house, with Riley heading off for a debriefing which > he assures Buffy will be no big deal: he just has to promise to keep his > mouth shut about the Initiative. Joyce makes a pointed remark about how > nice it was to _finally_ meet Riley, which Buffy pointedly ignores. > > The four core scoobies sit down to pig out on videos. Xander wants to > watch _Apocalypse Now_: the others are not so keen, having just lived it. > Joyce says she's tired and goes to bed: the others swear they're still > too keyed up from the fight to sleep, but they all conk out anyway. > That's when Willow's dream starts. > > Yes, an all-dream episode: Don will be in heaven. > > I found it interesting how the dreams reflected each dreamer's > character. It seems that what Willow really fears, for instance, is that > nobody really likes her: that even Tara and Oz are sniggering _together_ > behind her back. Xander, of course we know what Xander dreams about. > And Giles can't stop being a Watcher no matter what, even when he's > singing. (My favorite scene, actually, but mostly for Anya trying to > tell a joke. But it's certainly also a key scene for the unraveling of > this episode's plot.) > > And then, of course, there's the key character in all the dreams, whose > increasing importance even when offstage has been noticable for a while > now. And no, I don't mean the cheese guy. > > I trust that everyone noticed that the guy sitting with Riley in the > "Surgeon General" scene of Buffy's dream was apparently the earlier human > incarnation of Adam: not that it either looked or sounded like him, but > the script so implies and I noticed the Adam actor's name in the opening > credits. > > > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 11:03:25 -0400 (EDT) From: "Hilary L. Hertzoff" Subject: Re: b/season finale I watched it at my parents house and am now fretting that I didn't set the VCR properly at home. Oh my is right. Just to get us started on the symbolism discussion that will ensue, did anyone else notice where each of the three got attacked. Willow's throat, Xander's heart, Giles's brain - the voice, heart/center, and brains of the group, and the card Buffy was offered was the hands (manus) appropriate for the warrior. On another note: I don't know if anyone else watches Popular which is essentially a hit or miss parody of the teen genre. What's kept me watching is the occasional flashes of brilliance, but that's neither here nor there. Their season finale was a parody of the conventions of the sweeps/season finale epsiode starting with two of the characters discussing the usual plot gimmicks and then alerting viewers with a buzzer as they occured. And one of the conventions they mentioned was the musical number. So I was rather amused to see one on Buffy. Can anyone translate what Giles and Anya were saying to Xander. I know it was French but I was too tired and my French is too sketchy for me to understand it. Hilary Hilary L. Hertzoff From here to there, Mamaroneck Public Library a bunny goes where a bunny must. Mamaroneck, NY hhertzof@wlsmail.wls.lib.ny.us Little Bunny on the Move hhertzof@panix.com by Peter McCarty ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 12:00:20 -0400 (EDT) From: "David S. Bratman" Subject: Re: b/season finale On Wed, 24 May 2000, Susan Kroupa wrote: > So Willow is not yet comfortable with her relationship with Tara. I don't think Willow is, in one sense, comfortable in _any_ relationship. It has nothing to do with the special qualities of her relationship with Tara. I'd like to go through the episode carefully and collect all the comments about Tara, which seem to be filled with Clues. In particular I noticed a couple of comments about her name, or her real name, implying that it's something else: whether literally or symbolically isn't clear. But the likelihood seems to be that Tara, unlike most of the others, was consciously participating in the dreams. Hilary mentioned the French that Giles and Anya speak, or should I say "speak": the dubbing was so hideously bad that I guess it must have been deliberately so, one more weird artifact of the dream. (There were lots of places during this episode where I had to keep saying to myself: "This is a dream: they can do that." Spike outside in the sun, for instance.) The place where Buffy has the final showdown was a pretty typical swatch of high-country LA desert, if anyone who doesn't know the area is curious. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 12:39:48 EDT From: GHighPine@aol.com Subject: Re: b/season finale So much to comment on it's hard to know where to start (BTW, I recognized Adam immediately and am surprised that others didn't) but one thing that jumped out at me was the clock that said 730 (sic) and Tara saying "that clock's all wrong." (Maybe because a year has passed since 7-3-0?) Sue, not much happened before Willow's dream started. I wonder if -- no, I predict that -- the character that appeared in all their dreams will recur through next season. And will have some connection with "little sister." Gayle ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 16:11:20 -0400 (EDT) From: "David S. Bratman" Subject: Adam (was Re: b/season finale) On Wed, 24 May 2000 GHighPine@aol.com wrote: > So much to comment on it's hard to know where to start (BTW, I recognized > Adam immediately and am surprised that others didn't) but one thing that > jumped out at me was the clock that said 730 (sic) and Tara saying "that > clock's all wrong." (Maybe because a year has passed since > 7-3-0?) He did not, of course, look like Adam, but he didn't even look like what I expected the actor would look like without the makeup. Nor did he sound like Adam. It was the script clues plus noticing that the actor was in the episode that clued me in. I might not even have recognized Snyder, so different was the actor's performance (and the way he was photographed) from before, had not I been similarly cued. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 18:15:33 -0400 (EDT) From: "Donald G. Keller" Subject: restless?? "Making sense of Gene Wolfe, it seems to me, is initially a job of decipherment." --John Clute, =Strokes= Which episode was it (my mental "database" isn't working that well today, for reasons which will become clear) where Buffy said "I'm having a really weird day today"? I'd bought tickets a couple weeks ago for =both= Sleater-Kinney shows in New York, and it only dawned on me late last week that the second of them was on a Tuesday--last night, to be exact. So even though I'd seen Sleater-Kinney on Monday night (upholding my suspicion that they may be the best band in the world), I had a ticket for Tuesday, too, and was going to the show. (As I had gone to see Kristeen Young when she played several Tuesdays at the =beginning= of the =Buffy= season.) (And oh by the way, I'm in the middle of a stretch where in the last week I've seen Kristeen Young twice and Sleater-Kinney twice--my favorite musical performers right at the second--plus Kristeen twice before that this month, and again =tomorrow= night. May has been pig heaven for me, as I think I mentioned before.) Murphy's Law prophesies that my taping is going to foul up sometime, so I'm a little paranoid; I actually set up my VCR in the morning, before I went out on errands. About 7 p.m. I get a call from my temp agency. They want me to go to a quite good law firm...immediately. Sorry, plans for the evening, I said; though I would be done by midnight, if they really needed me. They rang off, called back: client was fine with midnight. Oh. But I needed the shift. So I managed to be home just long enough to see the VCR turn itself on (and resisted the temptation to stay), and went off to the show (as good as the previous night's), and then directly to work, until 7:30 a.m. I kept thinking during the night (I was steadily busy, unlike the last time I'd been there when I did =no work= for 10 hours) that when I got home I'd have three choices: 1) sleep 2) watch =Buffy= and =Angel= 3) listen to the live tape of Kristeen Young (shows I'd attended, mind you) I'd "scored" from my "pusher" (aka Meredith's boyfriend Rob). I was leaning toward the sensible choice, i.e. sleep. But I drank way too much coffee during the night, and when I got home I wasn't ready to sleep yet. So I put on Kristeen Young live while I rewound the videotape, then sat down to watch. Both shows. Now, for obvious reasons I didn't check my e-mail to read last night's digest. So I hope all will be amused at the phone message I left Meredith at work: "Hi, this is Don. It's 10:30 a.m. and I haven't been to sleep yet. Guess what I've been doing? It's going to take me =weeks= to figure it all out. Talk to you later." Will someone confirm for me that the episode is titled "Restless"? I can't think why that should be the title. (The =Angel= title, "To Shanshu in L.A.," is more relevant, silly/clever. Pretty good episode I don't need to watch again soon, by the way.) Anyway. I'm temporizing. The John Clute quote that heads this post popped into my head, and I looked it up (my small press published the book, incidentally). I think it's fair to say that Joss Whedon's writing is as far above the average level of TV as Gene Wolfe's is above the average sf novel. (For those who don't know his work: I wasn't the one who said Wolfe's four-volume =Book of the New Sun= is the single finest work in the sf/fantasy field, but I don't disagree.) Notice I cleverly haven't actually =compared= Whedon and Wolfe. More than any =Buffy= episode I can think of, "Restless" is in need of simple decipherment: what is going =on=? And it confirms Whedon as one of the best dream-sequence writers of my acquaintance. I've only watched it once, so far; I'm afraid to go back to it until I'm ready for it. Which means taking notes right away, and rather extensive notes at that: I suspect what the episode needs is a complete mapping-out. A few preliminary statements. It's nicely schematic: prologue, one dream apiece, epilogue; and I suspect that they're all, on some level, the "same" dream: they certainly "rhyme" in the sense that they end the same place. A tremendous number of clever things, of course, especially the way they brought back old characters in unexpected ways (most particularly Principal Snyder! and since I've never seen =Apocalypse Now= I hope someone will explain those references to me). Got a real Jungian chill and no mistake when Buffy converses with the First Slayer. Maybe the =most= important thing to figure out (if it's even decipherable; I suspect it may be oracular instead) is Tara's role in the episode. She's in everybody's dream, I think, and says something significant in each. (It'll be important to figure out the =dramatis personae= of each dream, and how much overlap there is.) I'm going to guess, pending further research, that Cheese-Man (goo goo ga joob, as Xander would say) is an intriguing red herring. Hope I'm wrong. The parlor-game aspect will be to try to catch all the cross-references, of which there are dozens, I think, going back all the way to the first season. (And obviously "Nightmares" will be important to re-watch as part of the "decrypting" process.) Also I'm curious to see if there was =any= reason to flop the credit sequence and the teaser--other than Joss Whedon messing with my head, that is. On first watching I'm not sure I buy the menace part of the experience--what was the cost? Buffy subdued the menace without a great deal of peril, and the group ends up merely thoughtful. But they now have a perfectly good excuse not to do the Enjoining spell again. Obviously, these are Notes Towards and Analysis, and I'll have to leave it be for the nonce. Working another long shift tomorrow and then straight to see Kristeen Young again, so it'll probably be Friday or so before I have another chance to tackle this thing. But I will. (By the way, I didn't fall asleep this morning until both sides of the Kristeen Young tape had played through--and I'm playing it again now.) I only managed two or three hours of sleep, so if I seem less coherent than usual I'm going to claim an excuse. My plan is to get in bed early with the ballgame on the radio and sleep through until morning. Pardon the descent into autobiography, but as I said at the top it's been a weird 24 hours. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 20:09:05 -0400 From: meredith Subject: Re: restless?? Hi! Don posted: >Now, for obvious reasons I didn't check my e-mail to read last >night's digest. So I hope all will be amused at the phone message I >left Meredith at work: "Hi, this is Don. It's 10:30 a.m. and I >haven't been to sleep yet. Guess what I've been doing? It's going to take >me =weeks= to figure it all out. Talk to you later." I got the message and laughed quite hard. :) >Will someone confirm for me that the episode is titled "Restless"? I >can't think why that should be the title. It is, and it makes sense to me. They were asleep, but they really weren't getting much rest, what with all those intense dreams they were having. >(The =Angel= title, "To >Shanshu in L.A.," is more relevant, silly/clever. Pretty good >episode I don't need to watch again soon, by the way.) (I need to interject my major question re _Angel_ -- what is the significance of Darla's condition at the end? Was she supposed to be dead before this or something?) >A tremendous number of clever things, of course, especially the way they >brought back old characters in unexpected ways (most particularly >Principal Snyder! and since I've never seen =Apocalypse Now= I hope >someone will explain those references to me). Principal Snyder was playing the Kurtz character (is that his name in the movie? I know it's his name in _Heart of Darkness_), and brilliantly, too. The entire scene had me rolling on the floor. It was a PERFECT recreation - -- the only thing missing was Snyder muttering something about "the horror, the horror" at the end. Methinks Joss was having a good time. :) >Got a real Jungian chill and no mistake when Buffy converses with the >First Slayer. So did I, and I don't know what you're talking about with this Jung stuff half the time. ;) >Maybe the =most= important thing to figure out (if it's even >decipherable; I suspect it may be oracular instead) is Tara's role in the >episode. She's in everybody's dream, I think, and says something >significant in each. The thing that was made the most clear in this ep, IMO, is that Tara is *much* more than a college girl who likes to do spells in her spare time. It's going to be fascinating to see how that plays out next year. >I'm going to guess, pending further research, that Cheese-Man (goo goo ga >joob, as Xander would say) is an intriguing red herring. Hope I'm wrong. A commentator on a site I surfed by last night opined that he was an homage to _Twin Peaks_. I'm inclined to believe that: a random cheese guy is just the sort of person you'd find lurking around the edges of that town. (He was hysterical. Interesting that everyone else just sort of took him in stride, but at his appearance in Buffy's dream that's when she declared "That's it. I'm waking up.") >The parlor-game aspect will be to try to catch all the cross-references, >of which there are dozens, I think, going back all the way to the first >season. (And obviously "Nightmares" will be important to re-watch as part >of the "decrypting" process.) Oh, yes. (Willow: "This isn't Madame Butterfly is it?") >Also I'm curious to see if there was =any= reason to flop the credit >sequence and the teaser--other than Joss Whedon messing with my head, that >is. I'm wondering if that wasn't an editing goof. There was no reason for it that I can see. I actually missed the first 10 or so seconds of the teaser, because as soon as the opening music was over I hit "pause" on my VCR to cut out the commercials, and it took a little bit for my brain to clue in to what was happening when the show started instead. >On first watching I'm not sure I buy the menace part of the >experience--what was the cost? Buffy subdued the menace without a great >deal of peril, and the group ends up merely thoughtful. But they now have >a perfectly good excuse not to do the Enjoining spell again. I firmly believe that a year from today we'll be able to go back and watch this episode and point to setup for every single significant point of season 5. +==========================================================================+ | Meredith Tarr meth@smoe.org | | New Haven, CT USA http://www.smoe.org/~meth | +==========================================================================+ | "things are more beautiful when they're obscure" -- veda hille | | *** TRAJECTORY, the Veda Hille mailing list: *** | | *** http://www.smoe.org/meth/trajectory.html *** | +==========================================================================+ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 20:19:05 -0400 From: meredith Subject: Re: b/season finale Hi! David fonted: >I found it interesting how the dreams reflected each dreamer's >character. It seems that what Willow really fears, for instance, is that >nobody really likes her: that even Tara and Oz are sniggering _together_ >behind her back. It seemed to me that Willow also fears the reaction of people (in particular her family) to her relationship with Tara. One gets the idea that the Scoobies are the only ones who know. >And Giles can't stop being a Watcher no matter what, even when he's >singing. (My favorite scene, actually, but mostly for Anya trying to >tell a joke. But it's certainly also a key scene for the unraveling of >this episode's plot.) Giles' song was a stitch. And Anya! "Quiet, or you'll miss the humorous conclusion!" That beat out her steering the ice-cream truck by "gesturing emphatically" as my favorite Anya moment of the week. :) >And then, of course, there's the key character in all the dreams, whose >increasing importance even when offstage has been noticable for a while >now. And no, I don't mean the cheese guy. Tara, you mean? Or am I being dense again? >I trust that everyone noticed that the guy sitting with Riley in the >"Surgeon General" scene of Buffy's dream was apparently the earlier human >incarnation of Adam: not that it either looked or sounded like him, but >the script so implies and I noticed the Adam actor's name in the opening >credits. I didn't notice until it was made clear in the dialogue. But then I realized it did rather look like him. Sue added: >But I thought the demon's voice in ANGEL sounded a lot like Adam's voice. >Maybe it's the masks. So did I! I also thought he kind of looked like him (well, his chin did, anyway :). Probably the same vocal-distortion effect. Gayle posted: >... one thing that >jumped out at me was the clock that said 730 (sic) and Tara saying "that >clock's all wrong." (Maybe because a year has passed since >7-3-0?) Not to mention that 3:65 isn't a valid clock time. :) I am rather anxiously awaiting Don's comparison of that portion of the dream with the two Buffy/Faith dreams. I have a feeling it'll make a lot of stuff come clear (no pressure, Don! ;). +==========================================================================+ | Meredith Tarr meth@smoe.org | | New Haven, CT USA http://www.smoe.org/~meth | +==========================================================================+ | "things are more beautiful when they're obscure" -- veda hille | | *** TRAJECTORY, the Veda Hille mailing list: *** | | *** http://www.smoe.org/meth/trajectory.html *** | +==========================================================================+ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 20:24:45 -0400 From: meredith Subject: m/Kristeen Young cybercast Hi! This was posted to another list I'm on and I thought it might be of interest to some who are wondering just who this Kristeen Young person Don mentions is: >Kristeen Young is on the cybercast >schedule for tomorrow night (Thursday), live from CB's >Gallery in New York. > >http://www.cbgb.com/gallerycybercasts.htm She's scheduled to go on at 10 pm EST. +==========================================================================+ | Meredith Tarr meth@smoe.org | | New Haven, CT USA http://www.smoe.org/~meth | +==========================================================================+ | "things are more beautiful when they're obscure" -- veda hille | | *** TRAJECTORY, the Veda Hille mailing list: *** | | *** http://www.smoe.org/meth/trajectory.html *** | +==========================================================================+ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 20:50:07 -0400 From: meredith Subject: b/willow writing Hi! I just got this comment from my sister, who has a degree in Classics and can thus pick up on these things: >I need to see it again, but I think Willow was writing Sappho's Hymn to >Aphrodite on Tara's back--"Immortal Aphrodite of the elaborate throne." > >Now that's brilliant. Amen. +==========================================================================+ | Meredith Tarr meth@smoe.org | | New Haven, CT USA http://www.smoe.org/~meth | +==========================================================================+ | "things are more beautiful when they're obscure" -- veda hille | | *** TRAJECTORY, the Veda Hille mailing list: *** | | *** http://www.smoe.org/meth/trajectory.html *** | +==========================================================================+ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 19:30:38 -0700 From: "Berni Phillips" Subject: Re: b/season finale >From: "David S. Bratman" >I'd like to go through the episode carefully and collect all the comments >about Tara, which seem to be filled with Clues. In particular I noticed >a couple of comments about her name, or her real name, implying that it's >something else: whether literally or symbolically isn't clear. But the >likelihood seems to be that Tara, unlike most of the others, was >consciously participating in the dreams. Yes, that was an interesting comment about Tara and the name. (Of course, "Tara" is so similar sounding to "tarot" that I like to think it's her real name.) Don't forget that Tara, in Buffy's dream, says she is speaking for the primeval Slayer. (I wonder if last week's episode title was a suggestion as to this week's episode.) If they were all dreaming of the first slayer and she (1st slayer) was real, the parts of the dreams where Tara says that stuff were real and connected but not necessarily to Tara personally. I noticed, too, that when Tara is in that part of the dream, we see what I would call the true Tara, the one we see in real life. Compare her with the tarted-up Tara we see with the tarted-up Willow in Xander's dream. I sincerely hope that Tara proves to be 100% human, witch or not. Except for when Xander was dating Cordelia, none of the Scoobies have had relationships with pure humans. You've got Buffy and Dead Boy, Willow and the werewolf, and Xander with the ex-demon. This sort of thing could give them a complex! Even Riley isn't unadulturated human, as far as we know. He's had a chip and programming and special "vitamins." Who knows what other surprises are in store with him? >Hilary mentioned the French that Giles and Anya speak, or should I say >"speak": the dubbing was so hideously bad that I guess it must have been >deliberately so, one more weird artifact of the dream. I thought the dubbing was hysterical. It was much more dream-like to me that way: they no longer sounded like themselves. It was one of those weird dream shifts that really happens. I was fascinated by Willow's dream in particular. We found out in an early episode that she has a fear of being on stage, or something like that. I think it was in the episode where Snyder forces the Scoobies to participate in the talent show. (Which, of course, makes it all the stranger that she would take a drama class. When I took drama in college, even registering for one class required that you audition for a show and be in it if selected.) Why is she dreaming of "Death of a Salesman?" Was it just such a ludicrous juxtoposition with the characters in the dream? As I recall, Willy Loman feels no longer needed -- much as Giles and Xander seem to feel. And her casting of characters was interesting. I can understand seeing Riley as a cowboy. He's so wholesome and such a white-hat kind of guy that that makes sense. Buffy as an independent flapper -- I was expecting her to be a femme fatale, but her dialog was angry, but not in the way Buffy normally gets angry. I loved seeing Harmony again, but I can't figure out why she was a milk maid, other than being so blonde and Nordic looking. Giles was perfect as the director. His wig was very appropriate, and I loved the line about how the audience contained every person Willow ever knew. The attack between the curtains -- that looked to me like Adam with the spiky thing coming at her. Then the scene in the classroom where she's back in high school, Willow as we saw her in the first season. She's reporting on _The Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe_, not a book a Jewish high school girl is likely to be reading on her own! I wonder if Joss threw it in because of the title. Willow would identify with the witch. It does concern four children who enter a magical land from the real world and befriend a powerful being -- this may be a parallel to the Scoobies. I also wouldn't say that Willow was afraid no one likes her. I think she was reliving how insecure she was before she met Buffy. Tara and Oz making goo-goo eyes at each other in the dream could mean that she thinks she's boring in comparison to them (or just too normal, maybe) and that they would be more interested in each other if given a chance. Also, someone else posted a question about Darla's condition at the end of Angel. Yes, Darla was dusted on Buffy a few seasons ago. It wasn't just a matter of transporting an active vampire; it was resurrecting a deceased one. Berni ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 20:04:49 -0700 (PDT) From: Todd Huff Subject: Re: b/season finale Anya was indeed a stitch this week. Rumor has it (I can't confirm because my tape is so bad) that Gile's girlfriend is seen with a baby carriage in one scene, and that it's seen overturned in another. I recognized Adam right away from his eyes. Snyder was playing Marlon Brando's Colonel Kurtz, who was also maddened by power. :) Another great moment for soldier-Xander to experience. > Also, someone else posted a question about Darla's > condition at the end of > Angel. Yes, Darla was dusted on Buffy a few seasons > ago. It wasn't just a > matter of transporting an active vampire; it was > resurrecting a deceased > one. > Yes, she was dusted way back in Season One. There was a bit of a spoiler posted on Harry Knowle's site about how somebody was coming back and the regulars were arguing it couldn't be Darla. :) Very clever, because she's appeared in a lot of flashbacks this season and her name in the cast list would raise no eyebrows. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Kick off your party with Yahoo! Invites. http://invites.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 20:05:10 -0700 (PDT) From: Todd Huff Subject: Re: b/season finale Anya was indeed a stitch this week. Rumor has it (I can't confirm because my tape is so bad) that Gile's girlfriend is seen with a baby carriage in one scene, and that it's seen overturned in another. I recognized Adam right away from his eyes. Snyder was playing Marlon Brando's Colonel Kurtz, who was also maddened by power. :) Another great moment for soldier-Xander to experience. > Also, someone else posted a question about Darla's > condition at the end of > Angel. Yes, Darla was dusted on Buffy a few seasons > ago. It wasn't just a > matter of transporting an active vampire; it was > resurrecting a deceased > one. > Yes, she was dusted way back in Season One. There was a bit of a spoiler posted on Harry Knowle's site about how somebody was coming back and the regulars were arguing it couldn't be Darla. :) Very clever, because she's appeared in a lot of flashbacks this season and her name in the cast list would raise no eyebrows. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Kick off your party with Yahoo! Invites. http://invites.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 20:06:16 -0700 (PDT) From: Todd Huff Subject: b/Restless Anya was indeed a stitch this week. Rumor has it (I can't confirm because my tape is so bad) that Gile's girlfriend is seen with a baby carriage in one scene, and that it's seen overturned in another. I recognized Adam right away from his eyes. Snyder was playing Marlon Brando's Colonel Kurtz, who was also maddened by power. :) Another great moment for soldier-Xander to experience. > Also, someone else posted a question about Darla's > condition at the end of > Angel. Yes, Darla was dusted on Buffy a few seasons > ago. It wasn't just a > matter of transporting an active vampire; it was > resurrecting a deceased > one. > Yes, she was dusted way back in Season One. There was a bit of a spoiler posted on Harry Knowle's site about how somebody was coming back and the regulars were arguing it couldn't be Darla. :) Very clever, because she's appeared in a lot of flashbacks this season and her name in the cast list would raise no eyebrows. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Kick off your party with Yahoo! Invites. http://invites.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 23:07:28 -0400 From: meredith Subject: Re: b/season finale Hi! >Yes, she was dusted way back in Season One. D'oh! I knew that. Really, I did. :P Thanks for the reminder! I guess this explains why she was reacting much the same as Angel was when he came back from the pits of Hell, eh? +==========================================================================+ | Meredith Tarr meth@smoe.org | | New Haven, CT USA http://www.smoe.org/~meth | +==========================================================================+ | "things are more beautiful when they're obscure" -- veda hille | | *** TRAJECTORY, the Veda Hille mailing list: *** | | *** http://www.smoe.org/meth/trajectory.html *** | +==========================================================================+ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 22:56:08 -0500 (CDT) From: allenw Subject: Re: restless?? On Wed, 24 May 2000, meredith wrote: SPOILERS BELOW! v v v v v v v v v v > Hi! > > Don posted: > > >Will someone confirm for me that the episode is titled "Restless"? I > >can't think why that should be the title. > > It is, and it makes sense to me. They were asleep, but they really weren't > getting much rest, what with all those intense dreams they were having. > Plus, they were dealing with a restless spirit, both in the sense of "uneasy" and in the sense of "all work, no play". > > (I need to interject my major question re _Angel_ -- what is the > significance of Darla's condition at the end? Was she supposed to be dead > before this or something?) > Yes, Darla was staked either late in Season 1 or early in Season 2 of Buffy. All her subsequent appearances have been Angel flashbacks. > >I'm going to guess, pending further research, that Cheese-Man (goo goo ga > >joob, as Xander would say) is an intriguing red herring. Hope I'm wrong. > Sorry, you appear to be right. A Joss quote from the Bronze: "the cheese man means nothing. He is the only thing in the show that means nothing. I needed something like that, something that couldn't be explained, because dreams alawys have that one element that is just RIDICULOUS. Thus, man of cheese. Plus funny. (to me)" Some other Joss quotes: "The ice cream truck scene: FOR THE RECORD, i had envisioned the scene very differently, the girls all matter-of-fact and parka'd up (honestly.) But I mentioned the dream ep to Amber and her first comment was: "will Aly and I act all slutty in Xander's dream?" and then I spoke to Aly and her first comment was "can Amber and I dress all trampy?" and well, they both seemed so excited... so if it seems like a bit much, just understand I was led from the path of righteousness by my two hottie friends and it's only partially (okay, largely) my fault." "Damn, I was so close to gone... just wanted to mention: the red curtains weren't actually a Twin Peaks homage -- in fact I thought of cutting them when I remembered the connection. But I had my own reasons (rather obvious, I thought) for wanting willow to go into them, so I kept 'em. Also, I've never read Hellblazer and I've never seen the Pillow Book. (I did see the POSTER for it, though, something I had forgotten until Amber brought it up.) I don't go much for the obvious homage EXCEPT in the case of Apocalypse now, becasue a)I always have that dream where I'm watching something I know, it's different and kind of lame, and then I'm in it, b)it seemed right for Xander that in his own dark journey, the Kurtz figure would be his disapproving highschool principal and c)it just made me laff my ass off (yes, I am now assless. Hard to sit)" I assume Joss' "obvious reason" for the red curtains was as a vaginal metaphor, from which Willow emerges into the cruel world (after starting in her nice safe womb-room). - -Allen W. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 22:09:54 -0700 From: "Susan Kroupa" Subject: Re: b/season finale That's what I was getting at when I said Willow isn't comfortable with her relationship with Tara--I think it's clear (if anything is clear from this episode) that Willow's worried about what others think. Sue - ----- Original Message ----- From: meredith > It seemed to me that Willow also fears the reaction of people (in > particular her family) to her relationship with Tara. One gets the idea > that the Scoobies are the only ones who know. ------------------------------ End of stillpt-digest V2 #117 *****************************