From: owner-stillpt-digest@smoe.org (stillpt-digest) To: stillpt-digest@smoe.org Subject: stillpt-digest V2 #100 Reply-To: stillpt@smoe.org Sender: owner-stillpt-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-stillpt-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk stillpt-digest Friday, May 5 2000 Volume 02 : Number 100 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: b/newmoon/sanctuary [Dori ] movies versus books [Kathleen Woodbury ] b/Christian virtues ["David S. Bratman" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 4 May 2000 22:52:53 -0400 From: Dori Subject: Re: b/newmoon/sanctuary > I assumed that they hadn't because the tone of the interaction between >Buffy and Angel afterward did not suggest they had. But that still leaves >unanswered the question of how Angel managed to avoid it without tipping his >hand to Faith. Well, personally I was disappointed that they hadn't, because it would have been a nice symmetry with the Riley thing. But someone on another list said, back when the ep aired, that it would have been completely in character for Angelus to tease Faith and then turn her down because he thought she wanted it too much and he wanted to jerk her chain. - -- Dori cleindor@cfw.com - -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Torture first. It's better that way. Troll maxim - -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 04 May 2000 09:53:49 -0600 From: Kathleen Woodbury Subject: movies versus books At 04:45 AM 5/4/00 -0400, Donald G. Keller wrote: >Phaedre: That's another odd thing. To me a genre is a genre, and the >medium (text, screen, stage, etc.) doesn't much matter; there's not a >great difference between the book and the movie of =Silence of the Lambs= >(or =Psycho=). The reason I make a distinction there is that a movie usually has to =show= the horror, where a book lets you envision it yourself (and people tend to envision much scarier stuff than movies can come up with, or so it seems to me). Example: the woman in the bathtub in THE SHINING was much scarier in the book than she was in the movie, for one thing (several things were much scarier in that book than they were in the movie, FWIW). Phaedre/Kathleen workshop@burgoyne.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 May 2000 02:21:03 -0400 (EDT) From: "David S. Bratman" Subject: b/Christian virtues Before I go into any of this, I should say, since most of you probably don't know, that I'm not a Christian of any description and never have been. I'm Jewish, a group with long reason to be suspicious of Christian love. But, especially because I know a number of intelligent, thoughtful Christians (including the one I'm married to), some of them (but not the one I'm married to) even being fundamentalists, I do not condemn all Christians. (Unlike some Jews, I don't condemn all Germans either. I do condemn all Nazis, though. I hope that's not inconsistent.) Interesting stuff, especially from Gayle, about what Christians can do to knock out the stereotype. She mentions writing their own scripts ... not to scoff at this, but it's ironic that Berni and I do know a conservative Catholic who spent a long time in Hollywood trying to hawk a script of Connie Willis's _Doomsday Book_ ... good script, too ... but now she's back in Detroit trying to earn a living. Gayle goes on, in another message, to mention how Wesley's actions this week impressed her even more than last week. I agree, though I wouldn't say that last week he had no choice. He had the choice to break down and whimper, and he didn't do it. Of course if he had, it would probably have gone even worse for him ... but people don't usually break down because they think it'll make things better: they do it because they're incapable of doing anything else. Wesley was not incapable. But what he does this week is -- after being markedly tempted not to -- is forgive and counsel others to forgive. Surprise! El Primo #1 Christian virtue! This, IMHO, makes up for a lot of stereotyping before, and I think it's exactly what Gayle is asking the Christians to do to counter the "That's all that I remember"-about-Baltimore problem. This is what I tell my fundie friends when they try to preach Jesus at me: don't preach. Show your values in action: it will sell your package [I don't phrase it quite that way] much more effectively. Wesley can also act, btw. Notice how he fooled the Owsla (the Council thugs) into thinking he was on their side. I'm beginning to think that when he told them "you're the best" that he was being sarcastic, trusting they're too stupid and egoistic to notice. Showing up unexpectedly and sinisterly saying "Hello, [your name here]" seems to be the only thing they do well. They sure can't shoot straight. Re the book about the Columbine girl: the real irony is that she wasn't the one who "said yes". That came out of an early confused report, was published and still circulates. (The story was first told by another student in the room, who could hear but not see what was going on, and misidentified the voice.) The one who was asked if she believed in God and said yes _wasn't shot_. She's not going around identifying herself as such, though, because what good would it do? It would only look like defaming the other girl's memory. On yet another topic, Gayle is still trying, with apparently limited success, to explain to Donald what's bothering her about this year's arc. Gayle, I want to assure you that I, for one, understand exactly what you're on about here, and I mostly agree with it. Donald wrote: > Which leads me to David: Yes, you're right, the Christian woman was a > stereotype. The show sometimes has a problem with this: not very many > black characters, most of whom die (Mr. Trick, Mr. Platt the guidance > counselor), for example. I just wanted to emphasize that, stereotype or > not, she wasn't insane or dismissible, but based on reality. I'm bothered less by the blacks, simply because it's clear that Sunnydale doesn't have a lot of them (as Santa Barbara doesn't, but why aren't there more in Angel's LA?), and they're not all janitors or the like. > With those models in mind, how do you feel =now= about Faith > always running away (until just this last episode)? That reaction will have to wait for re-watching. They handle this subtly; it's not a matter of "Oh watch, Faith'll run away again like she always does." ------------------------------ End of stillpt-digest V2 #100 *****************************