From: owner-stillpt-digest@smoe.org (stillpt-digest) To: stillpt-digest@smoe.org Subject: stillpt-digest V2 #72 Reply-To: stillpt@smoe.org Sender: owner-stillpt-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-stillpt-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk stillpt-digest Monday, April 3 2000 Volume 02 : Number 072 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: b/Upcoming New Episodes (mild spoilers) [meredith ] Re: o/amazon high [meredith ] Re: b/Upcoming New Episodes (mild spoilers) [GHighPine@aol.com] Re: b/Upcoming New Episodes (mild spoilers) [meredith ] Re: b/Upcoming New Episodes (mild spoilers) [GHighPine@aol.com] Re: b/Upcoming New Episodes (mild spoilers) [GHighPine@aol.com] b/suburban? ["Donald G. Keller" ] b/maltese falcon ["Donald G. Keller" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 02 Apr 2000 17:04:00 -0400 From: meredith Subject: Re: b/Upcoming New Episodes (mild spoilers) Hi! Gail commented: ><< m > o > r > e > > s > p > o > i > l > e > r > s > > b > e > l > o > w > >"Superstar" features the triumphant return of Jonathan. > > From what you posted before, I have already speculated that he may have >created some kind of alternate universe a la the holodeck universe created by >crewman Barclay in an episode of ST:TNG. Information from various online television listing sources would indeed confirm this. Good on ya, Gail! >> "New Moon Rising" is the big Tara/Willow/Oz episode. > > Moon suggests female energy (certainly has that symbolism in Wicca). New >suggests new. Willow's new romance seems to be rising. Right. I have also seen tidbits out there which say that Tara and Willow's romance will become mainstage maintext in this one. (I'm already arming myself for the uproar that's gonna cause on the Xena list when that happens!) >>"The Yoko Factor" is Part 1 of the season climax. Ominous title, no? > > Yes, Yoko having been widely blamed for breaking up the Beatles. Who >would Yoko be and who would the Beatles be? Yoko would probably be an >outsider who has a romance with someone... perhaps Yoko = Riley and Beatles = >Scooby Gang? >It could be Tara too, but taking Willow away would not have as much breakup >impact on the whole Scooby Gang. I'd put money on it being Riley, but we'll have to see. >> And Episode 22 is a Joss-written coda dealing with the aftermath of the >> season climax. > > Sounds good. Aftermath suggests a lot of things may have gone kablooey or >there are a lot of pieces to pick up, at least lots of emotional consequences >to climax. Denouement is a good thing, and not often enough dealt with on TV (the entire 5th season of B5 excepted, of course). With Joss writing it we're almost guaranteed something that'll keep us talking all summer. +==========================================================================+ | Meredith Tarr meth@smoe.org | | New Haven, CT USA http://www.smoe.org/~meth | +==========================================================================+ | "things are more beautiful when they're obscure" -- veda hille | | *** TRAJECTORY, the Veda Hille mailing list: *** | | *** http://www.smoe.org/meth/trajectory.html *** | +==========================================================================+ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 02 Apr 2000 17:13:40 -0400 From: meredith Subject: Re: o/amazon high Hi! I'm a bit behind here, but hey. Don commented: >I'm feeling scandalized. 8) >The pilot, however, was not picked up, heaven knows why; and so what got >cobbled together instead were the two half-hour shows =Jack of All Trades= >and =Cleopatra 2525=, Dumb and Dumber as it were. =Jack= (starring cult >fave Bruce Campbell as an American spy in 1800 fighting the French) has >sometimes been =OK= (but never really that good); =Cleopatra= (about an >exotic dancer in a future where machines have taken over) is one of the >worst TV shows I've seen in years. (What can you say about a show that >=voluntarily= sets its theme lyrics to "In the Year 2525"???) I'm not ever going to claim that it's good TV, but I do have to jump in and state that Cleo is getting better with each episode. Their pastiche of _Run Lola Run_ (aptly titled "Run Cleo Run") was absolutely brilliantly done, so much so that I taped it to show to friends who, like me, loved the movie. Jack, on the other hand, has already gotten stale. But for some reason I keep watching, if nothing else because casting Verne Troyer (a.k.a. Mini-Me) as Napoleon was a stroke of genius, and every time they show the French soldiers marching by to a cadence of "gauche, gauche, gauche droit gauche" I fall helplessly to the floor. >The frugal =Xena= people salvaged at least =some= of the =Amazon >High= pilot by building a =Xena= episode around it as a frame (much >as the original =Star Trek= pilot was reused). So at least we got to >see some of it. We're all hoping that someday we'll get to see the full Amazon High pilot released on video. What we did get to see in that episode was very good - it's a shame they tacked it onto such a lame frame story. The whole thing together really didn't make much sense at all. >So I'm scandalized. =Who= thought those other two shows would "fly" >better than =Amazon High=? The more I've thought about it (and I >keep coming back to it) the more I think that the show had as much >potential as =Buffy= (a cheerleader who fights vampires? where can >you go with =that=?), and I'm seriously disappointed that we'll >never get to see it. I think Amazon High was made at just the wrong time. "Buffy" hadn't become the phenomenon it is when Renaissance Pictures was shopping it around; perhaps even a year later it would've gotten picked up. In the meantime, though, the principal actors found other things, and RenPics had to drop back and punt. >Almost makes one want to write the novel... >No, I don't think I'm quite ready for that yet. Well, if you ever are, I know a place that would publish it (I'm not kidding). +==========================================================================+ | Meredith Tarr meth@smoe.org | | New Haven, CT USA http://www.smoe.org/~meth | +==========================================================================+ | "things are more beautiful when they're obscure" -- veda hille | | *** TRAJECTORY, the Veda Hille mailing list: *** | | *** http://www.smoe.org/meth/trajectory.html *** | +==========================================================================+ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 2 Apr 2000 18:06:50 EDT From: GHighPine@aol.com Subject: Re: b/Upcoming New Episodes (mild spoilers) In a message dated 4/2/00 2:16:13 PM Pacific Daylight Time, meth@smoe.org writes: << Right. I have also seen tidbits out there which say that Tara and Willow's romance will become mainstage maintext in this one. (I'm already arming myself for the uproar that's gonna cause on the Xena list when that happens!) >> Mean cuz apparently (from what I hear) the Xena subtext has never risen above "sub" and they'll be mad cuz BUFFY beat them to it? Wow. The meaning of the "Rising" in the title just hit me. I go on record as predicting that this will be the ep in which "subtext" rises above "sub" to become "text." Okay, I guess Meredith kind of already said that anyway. But still. Gayle ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 02 Apr 2000 18:16:34 -0400 From: meredith Subject: Re: b/Upcoming New Episodes (mild spoilers) Hi! Gail responded: > Mean cuz apparently (from what I hear) the Xena subtext has never risen >above "sub" and they'll be mad cuz BUFFY beat them to it? Exactly. Though maybe if "Buffy" gets there first and it's No Big Deal (or so we hope), that'll show the producers of Xena that there's nothing to be afraid of. Pardon me while I succumb to a fit of giggles at my own folly... +==========================================================================+ | Meredith Tarr meth@smoe.org | | New Haven, CT USA http://www.smoe.org/~meth | +==========================================================================+ | "things are more beautiful when they're obscure" -- veda hille | | *** TRAJECTORY, the Veda Hille mailing list: *** | | *** http://www.smoe.org/meth/trajectory.html *** | +==========================================================================+ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 2 Apr 2000 19:10:16 EDT From: GHighPine@aol.com Subject: Re: b/Upcoming New Episodes (mild spoilers) In a message dated 4/2/00 3:19:07 PM Pacific Daylight Time, meth@smoe.org writes: << Though maybe if "Buffy" gets there first and it's No Big Deal (or so we hope), that'll show the producers of Xena that there's nothing to be afraid of. >> Is it really because they are afraid or is it because they think it's just more fun to play with the audience with teasy hints? Doesn't the audience have more fun looking for hints and debating which ones Mean Something than if everything were all spelled out? Gayle ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 2 Apr 2000 19:56:34 EDT From: GHighPine@aol.com Subject: Re: b/Upcoming New Episodes (mild spoilers) In a message dated 4/2/00 2:16:13 PM Pacific Daylight Time, meth@smoe.org writes: << > b > e > l > o > w > >"Superstar" features the triumphant return of Jonathan. > > From what you posted before, I have already speculated that he may have >created some kind of alternate universe a la the holodeck universe created by >crewman Barclay in an episode of ST:TNG. Information from various online television listing sources would indeed confirm this. Good on ya, Gail! >> So also did the previews seem to confirm. Mention of his "inventing the internet" suggested that his heroism was retroactive (so has to be alt-universe) and there was a glimpse of what I bet was the portal to this other universe (looked like a wavy-water surface). Gayle ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2000 00:11:12 -0400 (EDT) From: "Donald G. Keller" Subject: b/suburban? [I started writing this a while ago, and decided I may as well finish it, since it still seems worth saying. Crankiness Alert.] Pursuant to the discussion of urban fantasy by Jennifer and Ken: Let's perform a thought experiment. Suppose there were a fantasy set in New York City (setting aside the fantasy element for the nonce) where the scenes take place 1) in the Russian Tea Room 2) on Celebrity Row at a Knicks game 3) on the set of the new Woody Allen movie 4) in the club where Allen plays clarinet every week. Urban fantasy? Suburban fantasy? Something else entirely? (It =does= represent the real experience of some--a very small number of--New Yorkers, after all.) (And what =about= =Dhalgren=? Again, it represents the lifestyle of people who exist, although again a very small number.) Let's also note here that it is possible to write "urban pastoral," looking no further than Peter Beagle's =A Fine and Private Place=; not to mention the New York scenes in Crowley's =Little, Big= which are at times =literally= pastoral. Jennifer: If you set a fantasy in your backyard (about crows, say) is that urban fantasy or suburban fantasy? How would you describe the genre of =Trash, Sex, Magic= for that matter? What bothers me about this line of reasoning, in the end, is that legislating degrees of "grit" =as a delegitimizing move= smacks uncomfortably to me of the kind of reverse class snobbery Greg Feeley is so prone to [if you don't know who Greg Feeley is, never mind]: the idea that only the working class has a true grasp of reality. This approach, it seems to me, would lead quite logically to an assessment of =Buffy= as "suburban" as well; after all, quite contrary to some observers' claim that it's the "most realistic" depiction of teens on TV, the fact that it doesn't really deal with, oh, drugs or racism or AIDS or teen pregnancy makes it distinctly less "urban" or "gritty" or "where it's at" than, say, =NYPD Blue=...or even =Bevery Hills 90210=. Which seems like specious reasoning to me. We're talking about =fantasy= here, which is =primarily= about =inner= experience; outer experience, especially specific details of outer experience, are of much lesser importance (not no importance, admittedly). =Buffy= deals honorably and responsibly with themes like love and death and heroism and loyalty, and that's quite "real" enough for me, thank you. One is perfectly welcome to not take an interest in upper-class (my hypothetical example above), middle-class (=War for the Oaks=, =Buffy=), or homeless-class (=Dhalgren=) fantasy...but one's lack of interest in them doesn't =automatically= mean they're worthless. If someone would care to come up with a =positive= definition of what "suburban fantasy" might mean and what it might have to say, I'm glad to listen; but as far as I can see the term is purely negative and exclusionary, and therefore (to me) as an argument about the genre it tells us little of value. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2000 00:15:30 -0400 (EDT) From: "Donald G. Keller" Subject: b/maltese falcon I don't =really believe everything is connected to =Buffy=, but some days I wonder. A couple weeks ago I happened on a display at the Virgin Megastore playing the new DVD release of =The Maltese Falcon=, and I stopped to watch a scene or two. It whet my appetite to see the movie again (I hadn't seen it for years), and I grabbed the opportunity of a library copy of the video, and watched it the other night. What startled me enough to make my jaw drop, and started the ensuing train of thought, was when Gutman (the incomparable Sidney Greenstreet), speaking of Wilmer the gunsel (Elisha Cook, Jr.), says "I feel towards Wilmer here just exactly as if he were my own son," and a little later, after agreeing to make Wilmer the fall guy for the murders, "I couldn't be fonder of you if you were my own son." This was after having =just watched= the rerun of "Graduation Day I" where the Mayor expresses very similar sentiments to Faith... And then, like Faith, Wilmer runs away when he is about to be turned over to the police. (It is, in fact, even =more= like Ethan Rayne: something I'd never noticed before, this being the first time I've seen the movie on tape, is that you can check back and observe the moment when Wilmer seizes the opportunity to sneak out while the assembled multitude is absorbed in looking at the statuette.) This led to the thought that Gutman, like the Mayor, is fastidious, with perfect manners, and can turn from cheery congeniality to deadly menace in an eyeblink. And like the Mayor's double, Giles, he is the one who delivers the long exposition on the history of the falcon. Sam Spade (Humphrey Bogart) is the warrior-hero, the "make the plan, execute the plan" type (in Riley's phrase), and though not presented as a "superhero," he (for instance) survives being drugged, kicked in the head, and a sleepless night with all his faculties intact, and outwits a roomfull of villains; add to this that he argues quite persuasively that they can't kill him, nor torture him without risking killing him, and so on the symbolic level, he becomes nearly invulnerable. And in the =quien es mas macho= sweepstakes, Spade (like Buffy) wins easily: Bridgid O'Shaughnessy (Mary Astor) is a woman, which automatically in this context means no physical threat; Wilmer is inexperienced, Joel Cairo (Peter Lorre) is small and effeminate, and Gutman is old and sedentary: one-on-one, even if they have a gun, none of them is a match for Spade. (This is one of the places, by the way, that the trope we're always worrying about, getting hit on the head, derives from: not only does Spade survive concussion without repercussion, he knocks out both Wilmer and Cairo with similar minimal impact.) The case of Bridgid O'Shaughnessy is even more interesting: the archetypal =femme fatale= who is both "damsel in distress" and "bad girl" who can turn on the hero at any moment. This is less like Faith than like Angel (though remember Faith is on some level a double of Angel); and just as in the case of Angel (compare again "Graduation Day" for a key example), the villains (including O'Shaughnessy herself) count on Spade's white-knight (and possibly deeper) feelings for her to manipulate him; but note that, at the end, Spade sacrifices O'Shaughnessy (as Buffy does Angel in "Becoming") in obedience to a larger loyalty (in Buffy's case, literally saving the world). (Spade even refers to O'Shaughnessy in a late scene as "Angel"; perhaps this is the place to note that, after not seeing the movie for a long time, the gender politics seemed really weird, the way that the women seem like second-class citizens. Needless to say, =Buffy= blurs long-standing gender stereotypes.) There are some small parallels as well between Cairo and Ethan Rayne: physical cowardice, craftiness, a sardonic air. And Wilmer, like Faith, is young, wild, uncontrollable, and kills without compunction. Spade's secretary, Effie, has some Willowlike qualities: technical competence and firm loyalty to her boss. =The Maltese Falcon= is not a fantasy, but if it were it would certainly qualify as "urban fantasy." And the falcon itself is a kind of a fantasy trope: it has a grail-like, numinous, talismanic quality, as witness the movie's final line, Spade's uncharacteristically poetic description of it as "the stuff dreams are made of." I'm not saying, incidentally, that there is a =direct= influence of =The Maltese Falcon= on =Buffy= (though I feel certain Joss Whedon knows it very well); I think it's on a more "mythological" level than that. In the history of 1) "classic" Hollywood movies 2) the detective story (both film and written, i.e. Dashiell Hammett's original novel as well) 3) =film noir= (not always a mystery), =The Maltese Falcon= is one of the first examples one would refer to: it's absolutely paradigmatic. I think all of us who have seen it have absorbed its "language," its grammar of tropes, its particular constellation of archetypes, so thoroughly that we don't even =recognize= where they come from...until we watch the movie again. ------------------------------ End of stillpt-digest V2 #72 ****************************