From: owner-shindell-list-digest@smoe.org (shindell-list-digest) To: shindell-list-digest@smoe.org Subject: shindell-list-digest V12 #426 Reply-To: shindell-list@smoe.org Sender: owner-shindell-list-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-shindell-list-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk shindell-list-digest Tuesday, March 19 2013 Volume 12 : Number 426 Today's Subjects: ----------------- [RS] Transit, baby [Chris Foxwell ] Re: [RS] Reunion Hill [Laurence Krulik ] [RS] Championship Game [Phueber@aol.com] [RS] Casting RS characters [Norman Johnson ] [RS] Reunion Hill [Gene Frey ] Re: [RS] Re: Courier. [Johannes Schult ] [RS] Why I vote for Reunion Hill [Johannes Schult ] Re: [RS] The Championship Round. [Carol Love ] Re: [RS] Transit [] [RS] Transit [John McDonnell ] [RS] final round [Bernadette Marian ] Re: [RS] Reunion Hill [Peter Booth ] [RS] The Final [Dave McKay ] Re: [RS] Final Four - Ok, you changed my mind [Don Vining ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2013 19:23:20 +0300 From: Chris Foxwell Subject: [RS] Transit, baby My final vote is for "Transit". I all along suspected that this would be my choice, should "Transit" make it to the finals (hooray!), but to be fair I've done my best to weigh it fairly against RH. My initial assessment stands up, though; RH just doesn't compare. It's interesting that many folks are pointing out that "Transit" isn't as fun or nice to listen to as other RS tunes. I fully agree. It's a rare mood that has me think "huh, I want to listen to 'Transit'." As I mentioned earlier though, frequency/enjoyment of listening isn't quite as high on my hierarchy of judging criteria as other things, like depth and what I sometimes call "the wow factor". It is frequently true that the pieces of art that move me the most deeply, be it music or literature or whatever, are those that stay with me intensely without the need, or even the desire!, to refresh the experience. "Transit" is just such a song for me. It kind of redefined for me what was possible in songwriting, in terms of narrative layering and symbolism and even lyrics ("law and decorum constraining nary a one" -- when I first hear that, I fairly shouted aloud), and changed my "listening ear". I've already mentioned precise narrative elements of the song that I absolutely love, so I won't go over that again. Except to simply say that I adore the morality tale, both its cheekiness and its weight. I'll add too that RH is also not very high on my list of "listenable" songs. So "Transit" didn't suffer very much in comparison in that regard. To be honest, in my opinion RH just isn't the same caliber as other songs that wound up at the top of the voting. I love the song, it is beautiful and poignant as hell, but it definitely wasn't in my personal Final Four. My own version of the round would have been populated (probably) by "Transit", "Fishing", "Wisteria", and either "You Stay Here" or "Mavis" or "Ernesto T-shirt". RH is solid Elite Eight material, but pitted against "Transit" in the championship round...? No real contest. So. "Transit" for me. Chris - -- "We were born in a dark age out of due time (for us). But there is this comfort: otherwise we should not know, or so much love, what we do love. I imagine the fish out of water is the only fish to have an inkling of water." --J.R.R. Tolkien ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2013 14:05:58 -0400 From: Laurence Krulik Subject: Re: [RS] Reunion Hill > Are you thinking that Reunion Hill is the name the narrator gave the > hill, because I never thought of it in that way. I would assume that > it had a name by the time she climbed it, and that was the name she > used. > Given the discussions we had lately around how the hill got it's name, I've even more convinced this "hill" was named by the narrator. It would be quite the coincidence if this particular hill (where all her musing took place about their possible reunion) happened to be named Reunion Hill. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2013 11:56:18 -0400 (EDT) From: Phueber@aol.com Subject: [RS] Championship Game Pretty easy choice for me. As much as I admire the ambitious and complex craftsmanship of Transit, it's not a song that I find myself wanting to listen to very often. As others have mentioned, the solo version of Reunion Hill is just about as good as music gets. Reunion Hill. Paul ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2013 01:02:27 -0400 From: Norman Johnson Subject: [RS] Casting RS characters Who would you have play RS characters. For Reunion Hill, I still say Glenn Close. Dana Delany would still be a good choice for Sister Maria, but so would Kathleen Turner. She was excellent in A Perfect Family. Watching The Americans has led me to think Noah Emmerick would be great as the Fishing INS agent. Olmos would be good as the the fisherman, but Jimmy Smits would also work. Thoughts? Norman ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2013 10:24:21 -0400 From: Gene Frey Subject: [RS] Reunion Hill Hey you guys, Lawrence wrote; >> Let me say I love Reunion Hill. However, I think the actual phrase "Reunion Hill" always struck me me as, well, cheesy. Maybe folks here can change my mind, but what was actually reunited on that hill anyway? << Are you thinking that Reunion Hill is the name the narrator gave the hill, because I never thought of it in that way. I would assume that it had a name by the time she climbed it, and that was the name she used. Gene F. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2013 11:03:16 +0100 (CET) From: Johannes Schult Subject: Re: [RS] Re: Courier. ronsfolkchords@cox.net wrote on 11 March 2013 at 21:48: > I HATE when he plays with showy intrusive sidemen. Well, maybe that explains why Richard keeps his eyes closed most of the time on stage. ;-) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2013 11:01:14 +0100 (CET) From: Johannes Schult Subject: [RS] Why I vote for Reunion Hill First off, both finalists are great songs. I listened to Transit while I was stuck in traffic this weekend and it was intense. Still, I have to make a choice, and the choice is Reunion Hill. Partly, this is because my enjoyment of Transit (also: Mavis) suffers a tiny little bit from the "switch" after the first chorus. Maybe the writing process shines through (at least in my mind, knowing that the second half was also written after the first half). Also, the verse chords, while fitting, are more a prelude to the soaring chorus - and not that melodic themselves. (In my opinion.) More importantly, Reunion Hill is just sooooo good. I raved about it in the earlier rounds. So I'll spare you (most of) that and focus on the structure and the initial harmony, instead. Starting out with D, then A, this is simple enough, almost bland. But then Richard adds that f# note to the e chord - and I'm totally hooked. When he gets to the descending h A G part it's pretty much the best song ever. Interestingly, there is no real refrain here. After a couple of line based on A (the dominant), the initial melody is reprised, which concludes each verse perfectly. At the very end, the opening lines and melody are revisited - and it works in this context, too! The lyrics leave out a lot of info, but manages to convey several time lines. Johannes ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2013 15:54:43 -0400 From: Carol Love Subject: Re: [RS] The Championship Round. cvz wrote: > I'm in total agreement with Vanessa's analyses, but my vote goes to > Reunion Hill. As someone here so aptly said; it makes my heart hurt. And > there's nothing better than a sad song like RH to bring to light the abject > heartbreak that wars always cause. > > Shelda......I think you missed the boat on this one. > > Reunion Hill. > > Carrie ....I'm not casting a formal ballot yet, but I see myself keeping the love for RH in view. And Carrie said exactly what I'm thinking. I thought Vanessa and Laurence were right in their Transit analysis, but at the end of the day, Reunion Hill has more of a chance of me clicking to it on my iPod. However, I will declare myself undecided for now, if anyone wants to come at me for the wedge vote!!! :-) Also, Laurence, I think that Reunion Hill is the highest place in the narrator's world, so she went up there to see the lover leave and now goes up there to see if he will return. She WANTS it to be a Reunion Hill, that may or may not be the real name of the hill. ~ Carol ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2013 15:31:42 -0700 From: Subject: Re: [RS] Transit >> I haven't heard Richard live in quite a number of years now, but can anyone say whether or not he is still swapping out "well-insured horde" in favor of "murderous horde", the way he was in '07 and '08? << Isn't it the opposite? It was recorded (and originally sung) as "murderous horde," then shortly thereafter changed to "well-insured" and I haven't heard him ever go back to "murderous" even once after all these years. RG ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2013 17:40:07 -0400 From: John McDonnell Subject: [RS] Transit Hey All, I wanted to weigh in--again--on the Transit discussion, and respond to Pete and Nancy re the "horde" and consumerism. I agree with what you both said about consumerism, but I am not sure that is the only aspect of the horde. There are,after all, the "families in minivans". A vehicle often villified, but ultimately practical in a way in which the ever-popular SUV's were not (Ford Excursion--10 cylinders? Really? Why not just buy a school bus?). There is a sense that, as you point out, we get caught up in it, not only, or least because its sold as the "American Dream" but because its the only game in town. I am completely devoid of talent, so I have to pursue more traditional work (otherwise I dont eat) which occurs in a very traditional milieu--during the day, during the week, though it has expanded into the weekend. I remain an intolerant and impatient driver, but I dont think I'm evil. I think the song allows a little judgmental wiggle-room, just as the "mobsters and murderers" are "fathers and brothers." I also get something of an Old v. New Testament vibe from the song--its an "angry old sun" for the bestial horde (very O.T.) whereas the prison is the setting for "the light of fogiveness" from that same sun, which seems more N.T. I also think its funny that Sister Maria thinks the traffic is light--its only because she has everyone backed up to the George Washington Bridge behind her. I am reeling from the loss of "Wisteria" and will have to vote later. John McD. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2013 15:54:26 -0400 From: Bernadette Marian Subject: [RS] final round Reunion Hill. My favorite song. Ever. 'Nuff said. Bernadette ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2013 15:18:34 -0400 From: Peter Booth Subject: Re: [RS] Reunion Hill Transit. Slam dunk. Many, many layers. Painful empathy for prisoners (a generally dismissed, ignored, reviled population) Fun to play too. On Mar 15, 2013, at 3:15 PM, Chris Foxwell wrote: > On Fri, Mar 15, 2013 at 8:05 PM, Laurence Krulik wrote: > >> Let me say I love Reunion Hill. However, I think the actual phrase >> "Reunion Hill" always struck me me as, well, cheesy. Maybe folks here can >> change my mind, but what was actually reunited on that hill anyway? >> > > It's possible, I think, to construct a kind of symbolic "reunion" > symbolized by the Hill. The Hill is where the hawk circles every afternoon, > and the hawk offers the only possible vantage point from which the > husband/love might be kept in view. (Though see below, under my response to > Pete's interpretation.) Therefore the Hill is the location where the > husband/love can be imagined as "real", an imagining that represents a > reunion of sorts. > > The connection between the hawk and the husband is hinted at in the > pronouns Richard uses in the final verse. He introduces the hawk as an "it" > ("It circles every afternoon"), but then the next reference is masculine: > "He soars above Reunion Hill / I pray he spiral higher still". It's almost > as though the widow sees the hawk AS the husband, or as symbolizing the > husband in a very real way: his soul, or the flight of their love, etc. > With this interpretation, the Hill is very much a place of reunion, as it > is where the hawk returns every afternoon. Obviously the widow doesn't go > to the Hill herself anymore, as "it must have been in late September when > last [she] climbed Reunion Hill", but one gets the powerful sense that she > used to go there all the time, watching for her husband and perhaps forging > this connection between him and the hawk. > > However. I don't think we need to look that deeply. Simply: the Hill is > where the widow last saw her husband, marching off to war and disappearing > into the trees; thus it is natural for her to picture seeing him there > again, emerging from the trees and reuniting with her. We've all done that, > I think: said goodbye to a loved one at a certain place and come to feel, > over time, that the place symbolizes the farewell and thus the hoped-for > reunion. > > > On Fri, Mar 15, 2013 at 8:11 PM, Pete Jameson wrote: > >> It's a statement of hope, even though the husband is not likely to >> return...we >> see this in Abuelita, too...a hope borne of faith, no matter the odds... >> > > Interesting. I've always seen it as the opposite. I see the song as > tragically sad, and that the husband absolutely is not coming back, at all, > with the widow having given up on her hope. The last time she went to > Reunion Hill--to watch for him, presumably, as above--was in late > September, which we're given to think was quite some time ago (hence her > saying "It must've been..." then). As I hear it, she gradually went less > and less frequently, with hope dying in her heart, until eventually she > gave up and is now merely recounting how she used to hope. Her "love", both > in the physical form of her husband and in the love that they shared, now > exists in God's eyes only, from an altitude that even the hawk can't > attain. One could interpret this "in God's eyes" idea as a statement of > hope, as in "all things are alive in God" or "I'll see him again in > Heaven", etc., but that conflicts rather sharply with the mournful tone of > the song, in my ears at least. > > Admittedly, we might be swayed by our different preferred versions of he > recording. I believe you said that you like the studio version, which is > certainly more peppy, whereas I prefer the *Courier *version, which is much > slower and more mournful. > > Regardless, I find the last verse illuminating in figuring out the "proper" > interpretation here. (As if there need be a proper tone! Of course there > needn't, at all.) The widow prays that the hawk will spiral higher still, "*As > if** *from such an altitude he might just keep [her] love in view." The > phrase "as if" undermines, even belies, the speaker's belief in whatever > follows the phrase, and might even connote bitterness, depending on how the > phrase strikes you. Consider my parenthetical comment three sentences > previous: "*as if* there need be a proper tone" possesses a "ha, of course > not" quality, and I hear that same quality in "*As if *from such an > altitude he might just keep my love in view". Basically, it's like she is > saying that even from *God's* perspective it is impossible--"ha, of course > not!"--that her husband is still alive. > > In sum, this is one of Richard's most painfully sad songs, to my ears. Not > a sharp pain, as the sharpness has faded along with the widow's hope, but a > dull, mournful, listless pain, the kind that sets in after hope is > abandoned. > > Sheesh. Time for a stiff drink. > > Chris > -- > "We were born in a dark age out of due time (for us). But there is this > comfort: otherwise we should not know, or so much love, what we do love. I > imagine the fish out of water is the only fish to have an inkling of > water." --J.R.R. Tolkien ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2013 20:25:23 +0000 From: Dave McKay Subject: [RS] The Final I'm going for Transit. There's just so much more of interest going on in there, musically, than in Reunion Hill. Perhaps it's not as strong lyrically, but that's not the way I work! Dave. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2013 14:33:27 -0400 From: Don Vining Subject: Re: [RS] Final Four - Ok, you changed my mind Carol Love wrote: > Why does he tune so damn much?! Can't he just get a tuner? Laurence, How can you call yourself a Shindell fan if you don't realize what a perfectionist he is!! :-) And imagine me living in the humid State of Florida. I bet I see more tuning than most. The perfections thing is my theory on why he takes so long to put out an album. I think a long, long time ago in a galaxy far, far away RG explained the frequent tuning to me. Can't remember his answer now. Ron, do you remember?? ~ Carol Hi Carol, There are lots of reasons for frequent tuning. Changes in temp or humidity can mess with an acoustic guitar making retuning necessary due to shrinking or swelling of the wood. Electrics are less susceptible to that of course. Another typical cause is putting on new strings without properly stretching them. Professional performers will typically replace strings frequently and if they are not throughly stretched before tuning, they will stretch when they are played. However I noticed a third cause at the two concerts I saw. He tunes after putting on a capo. That shouldn't be necessary with a good guitar if the capo is placed carefully. Also if the capo is too tight to let the strings slide easily, more tuning problems will ensue when it is removed. Personally I think that's his main problem. Don ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2013 17:33:27 -0700 From: Subject: Re: [RS] Final vote >> I'm back to waiting not-so-patiently for Richard to announce his west coast tour << Same here, but that sound you're hearing is me not holding my breath . . . well, at least for him to make it all the way down to Southern California. RG, stuck on 63 RS shows for way too long now. ------------------------------ End of shindell-list-digest V12 #426 ************************************