From: owner-shindell-list-digest@smoe.org (shindell-list-digest) To: shindell-list-digest@smoe.org Subject: shindell-list-digest V12 #393 Reply-To: shindell-list@smoe.org Sender: owner-shindell-list-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-shindell-list-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk shindell-list-digest Saturday, February 23 2013 Volume 12 : Number 393 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: [RS] When a Cover Improves on the Original [Carol Love ] [RS] When a Cover Improves on the Original [Pete Jameson ] [RS] Boulton Center show [Janet Cinelli ] Re: [RS] Boulton Center show ["Michael & Linda Marmer" ] Re: [RS] Re: Richard at Iron Horse (2/21/13) [Carol Love ] [RS] More covers [Norman Johnson ] [RS] Townes, Folkdom, and the Quest for Live Music [Pete Jameson ] Re: [RS] Much Madness: Sweet Sixteen. [Jeff Bernstein ] [RS] =?utf-8?B?UmU6IFtSU10gUmVnaXMgdnMuIFdhbHRlcg==?= [=?utf-8?B?bW1rMjYy] [RS] Mucho Madness: Sweet Sixteen [Jim Thomann ] [RS] Round 3 [Gene Frey ] Re: [RS] good idea [] [RS] You're an old Fogie-berg [Pete Jameson ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 23 Feb 2013 10:41:07 -0500 From: Carol Love Subject: Re: [RS] When a Cover Improves on the Original Laurence wrote: > Bruce Blasphemy. > I love the Boss, but you gotta go with Patti Smith for "Because the Night" and The Pointer Sisters doing "Fire". As for Pedro's question... Just assuming that Eric Cartman rules for "In the Ghetto" & "Sailing" (Styx) ~ I have to go with James Taylor as the Jedi Master of the covers. How Sweet It Is Handy Man You Got a Friend Up on a Roof and more... To be followed by Linda Ronstadt You're No Good Desperado Silver Thread and Golden Needles Love is a Rose Poor Poor Pitiful Me That'll Be The Day and more... HOWEVER, the best cover of all time is Patsy Cline's "Crazy". (A lot of folks don't know that's a Willie Nelson song...) *Ciao!* ...Carol ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 23 Feb 2013 10:51:10 -0500 From: Laurence Krulik Subject: Re: [RS] When a Cover Improves on the Original I actually never liked Fire until I heard Bruce do it. Maybe I'm just a fanatic but no boss cover can be better than the boss himself. The only thing which comes close is Rage Against the Machine's Ghost of Tom Joad. And their version is basically a different song completely. And yes, Cartman def gets the Styx prize. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 23 Feb 2013 08:47:48 -0500 From: Laurence Krulik Subject: Re: [RS] When a Cover Improves on the Original Bruce Blasphemy. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 23 Feb 2013 10:56:44 -0500 From: "cvz" Subject: Re: [RS] Much Madness: Sweet Sixteen. It may be getting easier but several of my faves have long since disappeared. To get the lists 10...or 8 all time favorites we should all submit a list. Those doing the calculating would seed a first pick as a 10...or 8 and down the line from there. Of course there would be more than 10 songs but....add up the points for each song submitted, draw the line under the top 10 or 8 and there you have it. To me this would be more accurate. I doubt if anyone would be ready for another round of picks after this much madness is over. Just a thought. carrie 1. May Nora**** 2. Reunion Hill **** Next Best Western 3. Mary Magdalene**** Last Fare of the Day 4. Wisteria**** State of the Union 5. Fishing**** I Saw My Youth Today 6. Transit**** Waiting for the Storm 7. Courier**** Che Guevara T-Shirt 8. You Stay Here**** Sparrows Point ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 23 Feb 2013 08:06:10 -0500 From: Pete Jameson Subject: [RS] When a Cover Improves on the Original "Atlantic City" -- Bruce Springsteen's original was measurably improved by The Band's recording (sans Robbie Robertson)...I think it was the addition of the mandolin that really brought it to life...and it is my theory that Bruce started playing The Band's arrangement of it thereafter -- this might be heesy to you Bossniks out there, but I'm standing by it... Can you think of other examples -- surely there are any number of readings of Dylan songs that made them better, but how often does the artist hear his/her song reimagined and then incorporate that into their (new) understanding of the song? Song for thought, Petros in PA ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 23 Feb 2013 09:57:46 -0000 From: =?utf-8?q?john_cl=C3=A9irigh?= Subject: Re: [RS] Your first Richard Shindell concert Hi Gina, the Palo Alto park gig was June or July of 2000. That was my first RS gig and it almost didn't happen because the power outlets fried an amplifier before sound check. I then saw him at the Kuumbwa in Santa Cruz the next night. Then I flew to San Diego the next day or so to see him at a house concert. It was a full moon and he played CtM for me. But I suspect he was wary of me at that point. =) I am sure I gushed about it here, so the dates are in the archive. Oh, and the PA community center gig, he opened for Box Set Duo, right? - -- JC Sent from my BlackBerryB. PlayBookb" - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: "gina" To: "shindell-list@smoe.org" Sent: February 21, 2013 7:42 PM Subject: Re: [RS] Your first Richard Shindell concert I think my first Richard Shindell show was at McCabe's in L.A., sometime in the late 1990s. I also saw him perform at a free outdoor park concert in Palo Alto, and in a freezing room in a community center in the same town, around that same time. Wish I could figure out when those dates were.... Does anyone know of a live show date list anywhere on the Internet? I'm pretty sure I have setlists and details archived in my emails somewhere, but I've changed computers and email addresses multiple times over the years. Gina - -- ******************************* "and all i want is something i can write about, all i want is something i can cry about..." - -n.f. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 23 Feb 2013 10:28:08 -0000 From: =?utf-8?q?john_cl=C3=A9irigh?= Subject: Re: [RS] Much Madness: Sweet Sixteen. Welcome to the Sweet Sixteen round of Much Madness. All I can say is . . . wow. You have until next Thursday. Let the difficulty begin. 1. Nora over May 2. Next Best Western over Reunion Hill (just 'cause, Ron) 3. Mary Magdalene over Last Fare of the Day 4. Wisteria over State of the Union 5. Fishing over I Saw My Youth Today 6. Transit over Waiting for the Storm 7. Courier over Che Guevara T-Shirt 8. You Stay Here over Sparrows Point - -- JC Sent from my BlackBerry PlayBook ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 23 Feb 2013 14:27:20 -0500 From: Norman Johnson Subject: [RS] Covers and Carpenters Carol wrote: "~ I have to go with James Taylor as the Jedi Master of the covers. How Sweet It Is Handy Man You Got a Friend Up on a Roof and more..." Absolutely! Plus Buddy Holly's Every day. I remember some parody of this, called "every few years". "To be followed by Linda Ronstadt You're No Good Desperado Silver Thread and Golden Needles Love is a Rose Poor Poor Pitiful Me That'll Be The Day and more..." Sigh. Yes! I'd put Linda as a contender for best female pop voice of her generation, with Karen Carpenter and Aretha Franklin as her competition. On YouTube, there is a clip of a very young Linda singing Long Long Time backed by Bobby Darin (!!). Speaking of Karen Carpenter.. We just passed the thirty anniversary of her death. I recently read an illuminating biography of her, called Little Girl Blue. In terms of covers, I would start with two of Leon Russell's - Superstar (Groupie) and A Song for You. Richard was inspired to have Karen cover Superstar after hearing Bette Midler sing it on the Tonight Show. As for Aretha, Respect is technically a cover as Otis had originally covered it. Aretha's Bridge Over Troubled Water is amazing!! Norman ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 23 Feb 2013 07:09:57 -0800 (PST) From: Janet Cinelli Subject: [RS] Boulton Center show Last night's show was very interesting. He had a full band which was kinda distracting and I've never seen him with so many guitars at his disposal. Before the show, Greg Anderson was tuning the guitars on stage and I thought for sure he would be part of the band but he wasn't which was too bad. I like him! I would post the set list but hesitate, I don't want to ruin anyone's upcoming concert experience but I will say he played Wisteria which really surprised me, I thought that one got booted off his rotating songs. Another surprise was that he actually forgot the words to AYHN. I am usually just a fan in the audience but after awhile when no one else called out the next verse, I did. He nodded, started but then stopped saying it wasn't the next verse. Thankfully, he finally remembered and carried on and when he got to the verse I called out, he nodded to me! I was mortified at my mistake! After the show, seeing how there was really no line, I went and got an autograph and to apologize to him but he was very gracious and I finally got a picture with him! I had never had the nerve before but I guess old age makes you brave. A most entertaining show to say the least! If anyone wants the set email me. I hope my post doesn't come out all stupid so I apologize in advance.Janet ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 23 Feb 2013 10:43:25 -0500 From: "Michael & Linda Marmer" Subject: Re: [RS] Boulton Center show Janet, Thanks for the review, as we see him tomorrow in Virginia. Mike - -----Original Message----- From: Janet Cinelli Sent: Saturday, February 23, 2013 10:09 AM To: shindell-list@smoe.org Subject: [RS] Boulton Center show Last night's show was very interesting. He had a full band which was kinda distracting and I've never seen him with so many guitars at his disposal. Before the show, Greg Anderson was tuning the guitars on stage and I thought for sure he would be part of the band but he wasn't which was too bad. I like him! I would post the set list but hesitate, I don't want to ruin anyone's upcoming concert experience but I will say he played Wisteria which really surprised me, I thought that one got booted off his rotating songs. Another surprise was that he actually forgot the words to AYHN. I am usually just a fan in the audience but after awhile when no one else called out the next verse, I did. He nodded, started but then stopped saying it wasn't the next verse. Thankfully, he finally remembered and carried on and when he got to the verse I called out, he nodded to me! I was mortified at my mistake! After the show, seeing how there was really no line, I went and got an autograph and to apologize to him but he was very gracious and I finally got a picture with him! I had never had the nerve before but I guess old age makes you brave. A most entertaining show to say the least! If anyone wants the set email me. I hope my post doesn't come out all stupid so I apologize in advance.Janet ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 23 Feb 2013 07:19:47 -0800 (PST) From: Janet Cinelli Subject: Re: [RS] Much Madness: Sweet Sixteen. my picks:1. Nora 2. Reunion Hill 3. Mary Magdalene 4. Wisteria 5. Fishing 6. Transit 7. Che Guevara T-Shirt 8. Sparrows Point ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 23 Feb 2013 10:19:02 -0500 From: Carol Love Subject: Re: [RS] SOB, SOB Ron wrote: > I feel the same about the ubiquitously-covered "Pancho & Lefty," which, if > I never hear it covered again, will be too soon. > .....Ironically, I think Townes's covering "Dead Flowers" was the perfect way to play out "The Big Lebowski". ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 23 Feb 2013 10:00:30 -0500 From: Carol Love Subject: Re: [RS] Re: Richard at Iron Horse (2/21/13) Georgette wrote: > About the show details, I figure "Do unto others..." I don't like to read > about Richard's shows before I go see him--I don't want the setlist, I > don't want to hear descriptions of the new songs, I don't want to hear what > jokes he tells--so I won't post about his shows until the tour is over. But > probably not then either. I prefer to argue politics and get reprimanded by > Ron. Georgette, That is EXACTLY how I feel. I will be seeing RS in two weeks, and I want the surprise and the moment. I only opened this email because I had a brain cramp and thought that "Iron Horse" referenced an old show. Although I was really glad to find Springsteen's Tampa set list online after I saw him last year. I was able to re-create the whole concert on CD (s). *Ciao!* ...Carol ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 23 Feb 2013 11:05:53 -0500 From: Carol Love Subject: Re: [RS] Much Madness: Sweet Sixteen. There isn't a single song in this selection that I don't have a connection to. This was the first time I had to actually go back and listen to the songs to choose. The first five were AGONY. The last three were a piece of cake. 1.**May** ~ an almost impossible choice. May wins because I have Celtic heritage and because I heard RS perform it many times live ~ years before it found it's way onto "Reunion Hill". I was waiting for that MORE than TNBW. I get chills the way he holds the last word out in the song. 2. **Reunion Hill** ~ if we're talking about official album release version, this is an EASY choice. If it is done acoustically or live, I can't make up my mind. So, this was decided by what was put out officially. 3. Jesus vs. 9/11????!!! Both songs encompass world changing events. This is the most impossible choice of the whole madness. **Last Fare of the Day** ~ because I almost always pick the older Shindell song, and this evens that up slightly. 4. **Wisteria** ~ the only easy choice in the first five. 5. **I Saw My Youth Today** ~ sentiment wins over politics. Both choices are brilliant gems. Now for the string of the "easies" 6. Transit 7. Courier 8. Sparrows Point ....Carol ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 23 Feb 2013 14:40:52 -0500 From: Norman Johnson Subject: [RS] More covers There are also some technical covers where the best known version of the song is actually a cover. Janis Joplin was not the first to record Me and Bobby McGee - Gordon Lightfoot did it a year earlier. June Carter's sister Anita recorded Ring of Fire first - that's how Johnny heard it. And then there are cases when another artist covers a song before the original artist did. That happened with Richard's cover of Calling the Moon - SNP came out about eight months before Dar's The Green World. Norman ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 23 Feb 2013 07:52:27 -0500 From: Pete Jameson Subject: [RS] Townes, Folkdom, and the Quest for Live Music "Live music" sounds a little like "real fruit", eh? Is there any other kind, really? I'm making arrangements to shoot down to Jammin' Java in northern VA tomorrow nite -- any listers gonna be there? As for Townes and Poncho & Lefty...Some years ago, I wrote a short story about two characters named Poncho & Lefty, one college-educated, the other a "Billy from the Hills" and their exploits...well, it mostly centered around Poncho's desire to be buried at "sea", actually a local creek, and the necessity that his friends build a raft/pyre to send him off...it's chock full of coloquialisms and insider jokes, and, thus, discernible by only a handful of my inner karass... Nonetheless, I adore the song -- but, like any song, (especially Hallelujah), it can be mangled in the wrong hands...I really like the Delbert McClinton version from Poet: A Tribute to Townes van Zandt...but I'll admit that there are few versions by women that ring true for me...The other song that just smites me is Townes' "Marie" -- heartbreaking. As to folkdom, here's a quote I saw on Andrew Calhoun's FB site: "That which distinguishes folksong in the framework of a nation and its culture is neither the artistic fact nor the historic origin; it is a separate and distinct way of perceiving life and the world, as opposed to that of official society." Antonio Gramsci -- a great example of this would be Mary Gauthier's "Last of the Hobo Kings". I, too, have been surprised by the ever-expanding notion of folk (at festivals) and, while we're at it, bluegrass (at festivals)...and i know the organisers have all sorts of rationalizations for using both genres as catch-alls. I'm quite certain that Townes would not call himself a folksinger, though he wrote many folk songs. He was country, through and through, to me...and I mean the real, heartfelt country we used to get...what's Tom Russell say? "I ain't heard a real country song since 1973..." -- I like a few artists to whom I've been exposed via my students: Jamey Johnson, Holly Williams, Zac Brown, but otherwise I'll call Buddy Miller my favourite country artist -- and his music is deeply rooted in rock and gospel... {we're nearly done, folkz} I heard an interview with Crazy Horse (sans Neil) on Idiots' Delight one night and the host Vin Scelsa noted that Neil dealt with a heckler particularly well on the "Year of the Horse" live record: Poncho, Billy, and Ralph all laughed. They related this story: Heckler: "They all sound the same." Neil Young: "It's all one song." Turns out Neil stepped off-microphone to heckle himself, unbeknownst to most of the audience. The song is "When You Dance I Can Really Love". So, I guess in the end, after thousands and thousands of hours listening to music, and, for the last 30 years - "really" listening to the words, instrumentation, and production, that I can agree with Neil: "It's all one song, amigos" Good Things, Poncho in PA On Feb 22, 2013, at 8:05 AM, Jean Rossner wrote: > I was chuckling at the various "if I never hear Pancho & Lefty again..." remarks, because I had said to my husband very recently that that's on the short list of songs that I never tire of. And it struck me that maybe that's because--this is NOT intended as a statement of superiority, or for that matter of inferiority, but it might sound like one to some, and I'm sorry--I suspect I'm more of a folkie, in the traditional sense, than many of you. > > By which I mean: I grew up listening to, among other things, the traditional ballads (i.e. long story-songs--not whatever the term currently means, which makes no sense to me*) of Anglo-American folk: songs passed down through the generations, whose authors' names are long since lost, but which are known by many people in a culture, and sung--"covered," if you will, but it feels somehow different--by performers, and by people in the shower or at work or whatever. One of my friends has a large hard drive on her computer entirely dedicated to versions of the Child Ballads; I'm not that good, but I suspect there are some of the Childs exist in my own collection in dozens of versions. > > Don't get me wrong--I also love an enormous amount of "singer/songwriter stuff," the modern "folk" whose authors are known and which is performed for audiences, for pay. But to my mind these are different genres, and modern "folk" like RS is in the second category. > > And of course it's a spectrum; there are singer/songwriters whose work is acoustic pop-with-guitars [or maybe pianos], and singer/songwriters whose work is rooted in and sometimes indistinguishable from the ancient traditions,** and everything in between. As is no doubt obvious, my taste generally tends toward the latter side of that spectrum, which is one of the reasons I'm not very active in the discussions here despite thinking that RS is one of the best singer/songwriters I know of. > > Anyway, the point I started to make, if anybody's still reading, is that some of us can listen to the same long story-songs over and over and over, performed by different artists without so much differentiation, and still enjoy them no less. For whatever that's worth. > > > > *Wow, I'm in a curmudgeonly mood this morning! Sorry for that. Can't figure out how to rewrite. > > ** Stan Rogers used to introduce "Witch of the Westmerlands" as "a 300-year-old ballad written by my friend Archie Fisher," and that's the sort of thing I mean. > Modern-ish political folk--in my head, at least, that's Woody Guthrie and his spiritual descendants--is either somewhere in the middle ground or orthogonal to this particular discussion, off on another plane. For whatever that's worth. > > > ******* > First RS show: repeated (rewritten) from in case anybody's missed it and is interested: > > I won a pair of tickets to a Freight & Salvage show (Berkeley, CA) in 1995 or 1996. RS and Ellis Paul, double bill; I had never heard of either, but hey, free tickets! I was single at that time, gave the second ticket to a friend, who gave it to _her_ friend--a nun who was a Russian Orthodox convert (which I mention because it seemed to me that disgust with all that was modern was a factor in her conversion; she sometimes attended the Freight, but only for gospel and bluegrass shows--and none of us had heard of EP or RS at that point). > > Ellis played first; I thought he was pretty good pop, but Sister was not too happy. Richard came on after the intermission, and played (among others? I think those were the first two) "On a Sea of Fleur -de-Lis"--Sister fidgeted, muttered, and looked unhappy--and then "Mary Magdalene." Sister rose and stomped out of the venue; having promised her a ride home, I followed. Ellis was in the lobby; he looked at Sister's face and asked whether he'd offended us; she said "No," briefly and continued walking. > > I picked up Ellis's CD "Stories" later that year and, despite the pop sound, fell for some of the songs. Somehow I didn't get any RS CDs until later. Then, at Falcon Ridge (2000, I think), a Sunday afternoon on the hillside, I was completely blown away by "Fishing" and "Transit" and grabbed all the CDs available. Oh, and "Reunion Hill," especially with Tracy Grammer on the fiddle... > > Long story-songs; they'll get me every time... > > Jean Rossner > (and the first section of this will be reposted on "Folk Crossing," I think > -- > > "There are but two refuges from the miseries of life: music and cats." > > - Albert Schweitzer >^.,.^< ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 23 Feb 2013 12:20:07 -0600 From: Shelda Eggers Subject: Re: [RS] Much Madness: Sweet Sixteen. 1. Nora 2. Reunion Hill 3. Last Fare of the Day 4. Wisteria 5. Fishing 6. Transit 7. The Courier 8. Sparrows Point Quicker, albeit still somewhat painful. Actually, only #2 and 3 were ouches for me. All four of those choices would be in my top ten. Shelda ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2013 11:43:59 -0500 From: John McDonnell Subject: [RS] Round 2 results Ron wrote: >>>And if you thought THIS round was tough, just wait<<<<< Having picked 9 losers--a couple of which I was certain would be in the Final Four at least--I no longer have that much skin in the game. In looking over what's left, I think I will have an easier time. Last Fare over Arrowhead??? That's like picking Regis Philbin over Walter Kronkite to me...... John McD ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2013 15:00:20 -0500 From: Jeff Bernstein Subject: Re: [RS] Much Madness: Sweet Sixteen. > 1. Nora > > 2. Reunion Hill > > 3. Mary Magdalene > > 4. Wisteria > > 5. Fishing > > 6. Waiting for the Storm > > 7. Courier > > 8. You Stay Here > Not particularly difficult for me. As we are reaching the quarter-finals, let me suggest an alternative to the brackets. How about ranking all remaining songs 1-8, and then tabulating the rankings. A bit more work, but it may give greater insight into how folks view the songs. It will also eliminate having to choose from head to head pairings. Not practical in earlier rounds, but with only 8 songs remaining, it seems reasonable. Jeff ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2013 12:32:08 -0500 From: =?utf-8?B?bW1rMjYyQGhvdG1haWwuY29t?= Subject: [RS] =?utf-8?B?UmU6IFtSU10gUmVnaXMgdnMuIFdhbHRlcg==?= I love both songs, perhaps "chocolate vs vanilla"? Margaret - ----- Reply message ----- From: "Pete Jameson" To: Subject: [RS] Regis vs. Walter Date: Fri, Feb 22, 2013 12:15 pm Those of us "Last Fare" folks, many of whom deeply admire the craftmanship of "Arrowhead", would probably liken it more to Gandhi defeats Patton Peace, Pater ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2013 14:47:24 -0500 From: Jim Thomann Subject: [RS] Mucho Madness: Sweet Sixteen 1. ==> May 2. ==> Reunion Hill 3. ==> Last Fare of the Day 4. ==> Wisteria 5. ==> I Saw My Youth Today 6. ==> Transit 7. ==> Che Guevara T-Shirt 8. ==> You Stay Here ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2013 08:58:00 -0500 From: Gene Frey Subject: [RS] Round 3 Hey you guys, Ron G. wrote: >>>>And if you thought THIS round was tough, just wait.<<< If you somehow pick "Wisteria" and "Courier" to meet in the next round, open a window until a breeze blows everything onto the floor and start again. Oh, and Ron referenced "Paddy's Green Shamrock Shore" as unreleased a couple of digest back. It has not officially been released, but there is a version on the "Main Stage Live - Falcon Ridge Folk Festival" CD that was put out back in 1999 or 2000. Gene F. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2013 16:30:09 -0800 From: Subject: Re: [RS] good idea >> Or the tally for the 8 could just determine the winner. << I do like the idea of wrapping this up with one more round, and the top four vote-getters in a final eight would likely be the same order in a final four. However, I just did a test on myself: taking a theoretical final eight and continuing what we've been doing with four pairings of two each, versus trying to rank all eight. The four head-to-head match approach was more difficult and challenging -- and in a way, more fun -- because it caused more "win or go home" consideration. More "sorry, I can only take one of you, so which do I love the MOST?" agony. Putting them in a simple list of 1 through 8 didn't cause that type of "good pain," and it became less of a gut-wrenching decision to decide whether two particular songs got placed #4 and #5, or #5 and #4, because it didn't make as much of an immediate difference. I dunno. But all ideas are still welcome, although changing horses in middle of stream gets you wet and sometimes cold. RG ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2013 23:14:13 -0500 From: Pete Jameson Subject: [RS] You're an old Fogie-berg Yeah, let's go head-to-head, what doesn't kill you makes you...older... Ol' Dro Somewhere Near Argo On Feb 22, 2013, at 7:30 PM, wrote: >>> Or the tally for the 8 could just determine the winner. << > > I do like the idea of wrapping this up with one more round, and the top four vote-getters in a final eight would likely be the same order in a final four. > > However, I just did a test on myself: taking a theoretical final eight and continuing what we've been doing with four pairings of two each, versus trying to rank all eight. > > The four head-to-head match approach was more difficult and challenging -- and in a way, more fun -- because it caused more "win or go home" consideration. More "sorry, I can only take one of you, so which do I love the MOST?" agony. > > Putting them in a simple list of 1 through 8 didn't cause that type of "good pain," and it became less of a gut-wrenching decision to decide whether two particular songs got placed #4 and #5, or #5 and #4, because it didn't make as much of an immediate difference. > > I dunno. But all ideas are still welcome, although changing horses in middle of stream gets you wet and sometimes cold. > > RG ------------------------------ End of shindell-list-digest V12 #393 ************************************