From: owner-shindell-list-digest@smoe.org (shindell-list-digest) To: shindell-list-digest@smoe.org Subject: shindell-list-digest V12 #392 Reply-To: shindell-list@smoe.org Sender: owner-shindell-list-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-shindell-list-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk shindell-list-digest Saturday, February 23 2013 Volume 12 : Number 392 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: [RS] Round 2 results ["Michael & Linda Marmer" ] Re: [RS] Much Madness: Sweet Sixteen. [] Re: [RS] Much Madness: Sweet Sixteen. ["Michael & Linda Marmer" ] Re: [RS] Round 2 results. [Peter Booth ] Re: [RS] Your first Richard Shindell concert ["cvz" ] Re: [RS] SOB, SOB [=?utf-8?q?john_cl=C3=A9irigh?= ] Re: [RS] good idea [Jeff Bernstein ] Re: [RS] Round 2 results [] [RS] Re: Richard at Iron Horse (2/21/13) [Georgette deFriesse ] [RS] good idea [Pete Jameson ] Re: [RS] Much Madness: Sweet Sixteen. [Laurence Krulik ] Re: [RS] Pancho & Leonard [=?utf-8?q?john_cl=C3=A9irigh?= Subject: Re: [RS] Round 2 results Hee hee, one of those is mine, the first one. Tough choice, as I don't see a loser in anyone song. But interesting. Mike - -----Original Message----- From: ronsfolkchords@cox.net Sent: Friday, February 22, 2013 1:01 PM To: shindell-list@smoe.org Subject: Re: [RS] Round 2 results > Having picked 9 losers--a couple of which I was certain would be in the > Final Four at least--I no longer have that much skin in the game. In > looking over what's left, I think I will have an easier time. << Well, it's been fun watching all the selections through Much Madness so far, and b as opposed to a sports tournament b this is really just all about what you like. Which is why the first two ballots that came in this round fascinated me. All different choices for each pairing except Transit. 1. Nora 2. Reunion Hill 3. Mary Magdalene 4. Wisteria 5. Fishing 6. Transit 7. Che Guevara T-Shirt 8. You Stay Here 1. May 2. Next Best Western 3. Last Fare of the Day 4. State of the Union 5. I Saw My Youth Today 6. Transit 7. Courier 8. Sparrows Point ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2013 12:27:50 -0800 From: Subject: Re: [RS] Much Madness: Sweet Sixteen. >> As we are reaching the quarter-finals, let me suggest an alternative to the brackets. How about ranking all remaining songs 1-8, and then tabulating the rankings. A bit more work, but it may give greater insight into how folks view the songs. It will also eliminate having to choose from head to head pairings. Not practical in earlier rounds, but with only 8 songs remaining, it seems reasonable. << I think that's a great suggestion . . . I'd be down with it. #1 would get 8 points, #2 would get 7 points, down to #8 getting 1 point. Right? RG ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2013 09:58:43 -0500 From: "Michael & Linda Marmer" Subject: Re: [RS] Much Madness: Sweet Sixteen. . 1. Nora 2. Reunion Hill 3. Mary Magdalene 4. Wisteria 5. Fishing 6. Transit 7. Che Guevara T-Shirt 8. You Stay Here Mike M ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2013 13:51:25 -0800 From: Subject: Re: [RS] Much Madness: Sweet Sixteen. >> As we are reaching the quarter-finals, let me suggest an alternative to the brackets. How about ranking all remaining songs 1-8, and then tabulating the rankings. << I think we should go all Electoral College and give original list members extra votes to spread across the eight finalists. ;-) RG, kidding. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2013 09:55:27 -0500 From: Peter Booth Subject: Re: [RS] Round 2 results. I'm wondering if at the end of the whole thing, we'll be able to know who had the "best bracket"? Who picked the most winners... ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2013 07:32:06 -0500 From: "cvz" Subject: Re: [RS] Your first Richard Shindell concert Oh that's right! Rad Lorkovic was at the concert at the Old Town School of Folk Music playing with Richard. I had almost forgotten! Well, I did forget until Howie mentioned him. carrie I first saw Richard in 1996 (maybe 97) at the "original" and sorely missed Muse at the Grey Goose in Londonderry, NH, when it was in the basement of the building in the back (for those who know what is now the Tupelo Music Hall). The room had a low ceiling and the stage was a rather nice rug. Rad Lorkovic was there, too. - -Howie ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2013 07:32:28 -0500 From: Pete Jameson Subject: [RS] That's what it's all about Carrie, That's a truly wonderful story...he's a good dude, ol' Ricardo... Pedro in PA On Feb 22, 2013, at 7:22 AM, cvz wrote: > It was quite some time ago, I don't remember the date, and I surely don't remember the set list, however I do remember driving driving from KC to Chicago with a friend to see Richard perform at the Old Town School of Folk Music. Eliza Gilkyson opened. He did not play reunion hill. At the end of the show I told him I drove all that way to hear that song so he took us back in a hallway after most had left, and played it for us, including Eliza. > carrie ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 23 Feb 2013 09:32:01 -0000 From: =?utf-8?q?john_cl=C3=A9irigh?= Subject: Re: [RS] SOB, SOB I got to hear Blackie sing it after a house concert in the East Bay hills back in '01ish. And, well, he owns it in my book. - -- JC in CO (hi Jim - Janet is next) Sent from my BlackBerryB. PlayBookb" - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: "ronsfolkchords@cox.net" >> My personal favorite probably remains "Sonora's Death Row," though. << I love it, too, but he doesn't bring much to the song that isn't identical to almost every other cover of the song. I feel the same about the ubiquitously-covered "Pancho & Lefty," which, if I never hear it covered again, will be too soon. RG ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2013 18:49:21 -0500 From: Jeff Bernstein Subject: Re: [RS] good idea Or the tally for the 8 could just determine the winner. Sent from my iPhone On Feb 22, 2013, at 5:54 PM, wrote: >>> Seeding the songs based on their vote totals is a great idea...What sayest thou, Ronaldo? << > > Actually, what I think Jeff was thinking was not so much a seeding based on previous votes, but rather a process that would allow us to not need head-to-head matchups at all. > > Doing a seeding, I think, gives too much importance to how a song did in previous rounds -- and some songs, by virtue of having gotten First Round byes -- would unfairly have fewer overall votes. And some songs may have benefitted by weaker competition. > > In this new plan, everyone would just list their Elite Eight from favorite to least (1 to 8) and each person's #1 would get 8 votes, #2 would get 7 votes, down to their #8, which would get 1 vote. Then I'd just tally up all the votes for each song, and the top four would proceed to the Final Four. > > I think that makes sense. I think. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2013 10:01:07 -0800 From: Subject: Re: [RS] Round 2 results > Having picked 9 losers--a couple of which I was certain would be in the Final Four at least--I no longer have that much skin in the game. In looking over what's left, I think I will have an easier time. << Well, it's been fun watching all the selections through Much Madness so far, and b as opposed to a sports tournament b this is really just all about what you like. Which is why the first two ballots that came in this round fascinated me. All different choices for each pairing except Transit. 1. Nora 2. Reunion Hill 3. Mary Magdalene 4. Wisteria 5. Fishing 6. Transit 7. Che Guevara T-Shirt 8. You Stay Here 1. May 2. Next Best Western 3. Last Fare of the Day 4. State of the Union 5. I Saw My Youth Today 6. Transit 7. Courier 8. Sparrows Point ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2013 14:48:19 -0500 From: Georgette deFriesse Subject: [RS] Re: Richard at Iron Horse (2/21/13) Norman wrote: "I'm sure Bernadette, Georgette, and others can fill in other details...." I enjoyed sitting with not one, but two list members. Thanks for the good company! I hope we can connect the next time Richard comes through. About the show details, I figure "Do unto others..." I don't like to read about Richard's shows before I go see him--I don't want the setlist, I don't want to hear descriptions of the new songs, I don't want to hear what jokes he tells--so I won't post about his shows until the tour is over. But probably not then either. I prefer to argue politics and get reprimanded by Ron. Georgette ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2013 13:07:15 -0500 From: Jean Rossner Subject: Re: [RS] Sonora's Death Row and Plane Wreck at Los Gatos At 10:46 PM -0500 2/21/13, Howie wrote: >At 09:50 PM 2/21/2013, jc wrote: >> Well, at least he doesn't chop off the first verse as some performers do! >> >>Will check out the recommendation on Jez Lowe if it's a natural fit for a >>Tanglefoot fan. The name I know, the music I do not. > >The first Jez Lowe song I heard was Tom Tom and I was hooked. >https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WT2E56mIso8 >Try "Live at the Davy Lamp", a double-disc album. "Tom Tom" is a terrific song, but for me the first hook was "These Coal Town Days." I have no more background in coal-mining than I do in maritime life (um, sorry...that's a reference to a discussion else-Net about sea chanteys and related songs), but I love the songs, and Jez writes them in abundance. Black Diamonds Cursed Be the Caller Tasker Jack Galloways Weave and Worry Bait Up Last of the Widows These Coal Town Days Sweep Horizons Clean ...there's a mix I've given to people. I don't know whether he's a natural fit, John, but to my ears it works. Many of Jez Lowe's songs are regional--though general mood, like the coal songs, more than the specific historical incidents that Tanglefoot tends to showcase, and of course Northumbrian rather than Canadian--and his sound is very traditional though the sensibility is modern. If you try his music, I'd be interested to hear about your reaction. Jean - -- Ye knowe eek, that in forme of speche is chaunge With-inne a thousand yeer, and wordes tho That hadden prys, now wonder nyce and straunge Us thinketh hem; and yet they spake hem so. - Chaucer, "Troilus and Criseyde" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2013 13:06:17 -0500 From: Bart Gallagher Subject: [RS] Shindell Covers The Outlaws > -jc in pa wrote: > > btw, The Outlaws... holy crap, that takes me back. Looks like there are a few old Outlaws Desperados here. My fav Richard cover is Sonora's Death Row (I really like Willin' too), that is until he does Green Grass & High Tides ! : ) So, what Outlaws' cover for our Gaucho de Argentina? How 'bout Freeborn Man? Black Bart btw, Wife & I saw The Who last night - great fun! ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2013 10:11:32 -0500 From: Pete Jameson Subject: [RS] Difficult, indeed! Ron, Good thing i'm under-employed...it is starting to feel like the old football pools i used to do back in the 80s...no longer enjoy any of that, but this IS fun! Thank you. > > 1. Nora > > 2. Reunion Hill > > > 3. Mary Magdalene > > > 4. Wisteria > > > 5. Fishing > > > 6. Transit > > > 7. Che Guevara T-Shirt > > 8. You Stay Here > Actually, I found this quite easy -- Mary Magdalene was the only hard one for me, as I dearly love "Last Fare" but had to consider Bridey's love of Mary. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2013 17:19:23 -0500 From: Pete Jameson Subject: [RS] good idea Jeff, Seeding the songs based on their vote totals is a great idea...What sayest thou, Ronaldo? Pedro en PA On Feb 22, 2013, at 3:00 PM, Jeff Bernstein wrote: >> 1. Nora >> >> 2. Reunion Hill >> >> 3. Mary Magdalene >> >> 4. Wisteria >> >> 5. Fishing >> >> 6. Waiting for the Storm >> >> 7. Courier >> >> 8. You Stay Here >> > > Not particularly difficult for me. > > As we are reaching the quarter-finals, let me suggest an alternative to the > brackets. How about ranking all remaining songs 1-8, and then tabulating > the rankings. A bit more work, but it may give greater insight into how > folks view the songs. It will also eliminate having to choose from head to > head pairings. Not practical in earlier rounds, but with only 8 songs > remaining, it seems reasonable. > > Jeff ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2013 20:16:20 -0500 From: Laurence Krulik Subject: Re: [RS] Much Madness: Sweet Sixteen. Sorry I didn't vote last round. The week got away from me. I would have voted for Juggler making it a tie. :( However, assuming it got pinned against Transit as well, it would have lost anyway. These weren't too hard for me. 1. **May** Nora 2. Reunion Hill **Next Best Western** 3. Mary Magdalene **Last Fare of the Day** 4. **Wisteria** State of the Union 5. **Fishing** I Saw My Youth Today 6. **Transit** Waiting for the Storm 7. Courier **Che Guevara T-Shirt** 8. **You Stay Here** Sparrows Point ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2013 08:05:16 -0500 From: Jean Rossner Subject: [RS] LONG: P&L and folk tradition: a meditation; and first RS I was chuckling at the various "if I never hear Pancho & Lefty again..." remarks, because I had said to my husband very recently that that's on the short list of songs that I never tire of. And it struck me that maybe that's because--this is NOT intended as a statement of superiority, or for that matter of inferiority, but it might sound like one to some, and I'm sorry--I suspect I'm more of a folkie, in the traditional sense, than many of you. By which I mean: I grew up listening to, among other things, the traditional ballads (i.e. long story-songs--not whatever the term currently means, which makes no sense to me*) of Anglo-American folk: songs passed down through the generations, whose authors' names are long since lost, but which are known by many people in a culture, and sung--"covered," if you will, but it feels somehow different--by performers, and by people in the shower or at work or whatever. One of my friends has a large hard drive on her computer entirely dedicated to versions of the Child Ballads; I'm not that good, but I suspect there are some of the Childs exist in my own collection in dozens of versions. Don't get me wrong--I also love an enormous amount of "singer/songwriter stuff," the modern "folk" whose authors are known and which is performed for audiences, for pay. But to my mind these are different genres, and modern "folk" like RS is in the second category. And of course it's a spectrum; there are singer/songwriters whose work is acoustic pop-with-guitars [or maybe pianos], and singer/songwriters whose work is rooted in and sometimes indistinguishable from the ancient traditions,** and everything in between. As is no doubt obvious, my taste generally tends toward the latter side of that spectrum, which is one of the reasons I'm not very active in the discussions here despite thinking that RS is one of the best singer/songwriters I know of. Anyway, the point I started to make, if anybody's still reading, is that some of us can listen to the same long story-songs over and over and over, performed by different artists without so much differentiation, and still enjoy them no less. For whatever that's worth. *Wow, I'm in a curmudgeonly mood this morning! Sorry for that. Can't figure out how to rewrite. ** Stan Rogers used to introduce "Witch of the Westmerlands" as "a 300-year-old ballad written by my friend Archie Fisher," and that's the sort of thing I mean. Modern-ish political folk--in my head, at least, that's Woody Guthrie and his spiritual descendants--is either somewhere in the middle ground or orthogonal to this particular discussion, off on another plane. For whatever that's worth. ******* First RS show: repeated (rewritten) from in case anybody's missed it and is interested: I won a pair of tickets to a Freight & Salvage show (Berkeley, CA) in 1995 or 1996. RS and Ellis Paul, double bill; I had never heard of either, but hey, free tickets! I was single at that time, gave the second ticket to a friend, who gave it to _her_ friend--a nun who was a Russian Orthodox convert (which I mention because it seemed to me that disgust with all that was modern was a factor in her conversion; she sometimes attended the Freight, but only for gospel and bluegrass shows--and none of us had heard of EP or RS at that point). Ellis played first; I thought he was pretty good pop, but Sister was not too happy. Richard came on after the intermission, and played (among others? I think those were the first two) "On a Sea of Fleur - -de-Lis"--Sister fidgeted, muttered, and looked unhappy--and then "Mary Magdalene." Sister rose and stomped out of the venue; having promised her a ride home, I followed. Ellis was in the lobby; he looked at Sister's face and asked whether he'd offended us; she said "No," briefly and continued walking. I picked up Ellis's CD "Stories" later that year and, despite the pop sound, fell for some of the songs. Somehow I didn't get any RS CDs until later. Then, at Falcon Ridge (2000, I think), a Sunday afternoon on the hillside, I was completely blown away by "Fishing" and "Transit" and grabbed all the CDs available. Oh, and "Reunion Hill," especially with Tracy Grammer on the fiddle... Long story-songs; they'll get me every time... Jean Rossner (and the first section of this will be reposted on "Folk Crossing," I think - -- "There are but two refuges from the miseries of life: music and cats." - Albert Schweitzer >^.,.^< ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2013 14:59:26 -0800 From: Christine Thomas Subject: [RS] Sweet 16 1. May Nora May, most definitely May 2. Reunion Hill Next Best Western Next Best Western 3. Mary Magdalene Last Fare of the Day So, so hard!!! But Mary wins it. 4. Wisteria State of the Union Another hard one. I love both of these songs 5. Fishing I Saw My Youth Today Fishing 6. Transit Waiting for the Storm Transit 7. Courier Che Guevara T-Shirt Courier 8. You Stay Here Sparrows Point You Stay Here "Piglet sidled up to Pooh from behind. "Pooh?" he whispered. "Yes, Piglet?" "Nothing," said Piglet, taking Pooh's hand. "I just wanted to be sure of you." Adopt a dog it will change your life. www.turtlegardens.org www.saintsrescue.ca ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 23 Feb 2013 09:42:59 -0000 From: =?utf-8?q?john_cl=C3=A9irigh?= Subject: Re: [RS] Pancho & Leonard From: "ronsfolkchords@cox.net" >>Which is why I love that Nanci Griffith chose "Tecumseh Valley" as the Townes song for her "Other Voices, Other Rooms" covers album.<< I really like Nanci's compositions but this is one of my desert island albums. Not a skipper on it. - -- JC Sent from my BlackBerryB. PlayBookb" ------------------------------ End of shindell-list-digest V12 #392 ************************************