From: owner-shindell-list-digest@smoe.org (shindell-list-digest) To: shindell-list-digest@smoe.org Subject: shindell-list-digest V12 #45 Reply-To: shindell-list@smoe.org Sender: owner-shindell-list-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-shindell-list-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk shindell-list-digest Thursday, October 13 2011 Volume 12 : Number 045 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: [RS] Nora [Martin Giles ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2011 12:21:27 +0100 From: Martin Giles Subject: Re: [RS] Nora Hi Norman. thanks for the reply. I'd forgotten (?) about Abelard's castration! (Actually, I might have been at school when I heard the story, and it would have been sanitised for us, I think). So how does the story connect with Nora then, do you think? Am I missing any more insight into the 'actual' story of Nora and RS's character in the song? I'm drawn to the line about when he's in the bar with Nora's husband: 'There we raised a first and the next and a third glass to you. Hunched on our barstools and calling our truce by your name.' So I'm guessing, were RS's character and Nora's husband perhaps once friends who fell out over loving the same woman, and now (because of the parish in Greenland?) are letting bygones be bygones? And is Nora going with her husband to Greenland? Is that a metaphor for something? Damn, I'm missing a lot here, I'm sure!! M. Martin wrote: >> The impression I get from it is that they have had an affair, or >> perhaps just been in love, though she is married. The main >> reference is of course Eloise and Abelard, who I seem to recall >> were a student and teacher who fell in love in mediaeval times. I >> don't remember the details, but there was a something about not >> being allowed to marry, but still going ahead, but them both >> separating and living lives in penance. Something like that.<< Norman wrote: Martin, That's the gist, but there's a lot more. Abelard was one of the leading scholars of the day (roughly 900 years ago). They not only married secretly, but had a child, Astrolabe. Heloise's uncle was so upset that he Abelard castrated (!). They exchanged letters at various times in their lives. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Abelard Carol: didn't you also think Nora was dead? Norman - -- There are 10 kinds of people in this world - those who understand binary and those who don't. ------------------------------ End of shindell-list-digest V12 #45 ***********************************