From: owner-shindell-list-digest@smoe.org (shindell-list-digest) To: shindell-list-digest@smoe.org Subject: shindell-list-digest V10 #53 Reply-To: shindell-list@smoe.org Sender: owner-shindell-list-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-shindell-list-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk shindell-list-digest Wednesday, March 25 2009 Volume 10 : Number 053 Today's Subjects: ----------------- [RS] Clara, etc [John McDonnell ] Re: [RS] Clara, etc [Laurence Krulik ] [RS] =?ISO-8859-1?B?VHJhbnNsYXRpbicsIFByb2NyYXN0aW5hdGluJy4uLi4gKEFu IEVuZ2xpc2ggVHJhbnNsYQ==?= =?ISO-8859-1?B?dGlvbiBvZiAiUXXpIEhhZ28gQWhvcmE/Iik=?= [] Re: [RS] Gethsemani Goodbye [] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 16:36:41 -0400 From: John McDonnell Subject: [RS] Clara, etc Hi All, Thanks Chris for the good wishes and the info from the WUMB RS interview--it puts "Get Up Clara" in perspective for me, but makes it no less incogruous--as you point out the songwriting and narrative components are usually very finely tuned. I dont think I need to confess that I have a tendency to read into things, but will blame that squarely on RS--his work allows and invites it. It need not be something profound, and can be as straightforward as an unexpected parallel, as in "Fishing." Perhaps I just dont like the melody enough to get me through the song, or I was expecting some kind of Aesop's fable. In a six-degrees-of-kevin-bacon kind of way I will say this: The Visigoths were defeated by the Franks, one of whose kings went on to establish the Merovingian dynasty in France, which dynasty was said to be the descendants of Jesus, as in Mary Magdalene. I'll take anything at this point. Yes--even if its not there. Sometimes an obessive compulsion is just an obsessive compulsion. As for the "point" of certain works--especially RS'--I get that some songs are not particularly profound, nor do they need to be for me, but the song doesnt seems as pointedly pointless as say some works where the act or the process is significant in and of itself. Perhaps the songs roams just like Clara--who knows? Love "Gethsemani Goodbye" too, and some of Chris' observations about the song fit with my impressions of "The Humpback Whale" of SOD and the Spanish song on NFN (I dislike referring to it that way, but I have NO Spanish). Had a little cognitive dissonance when I first heard it--I expected some kind New Testament retelling of Jesus experience in the Garden of Gethsemane where he escapes his captors, kicks Judas' ass, kisses Gethsemane Goodbye and goes on to join a carnival where he guess people's weight--and he is always exactly correct, down to the last uncia. Kidding aside, this song is growing on me. I knew nothing of this Abbey or Thomas Merton (his name was only vaguely familiar to me as a William Blake devotee), but I like the distinction between knowing and remembering that the song seems to set up, and was wondering if this had anything to do with Merton, his teachings or the Abbey. The narrator remembers everything, but how he missed the turn he will never know--I like that distinction between knowledge and remembrance. John McD ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 17:58:42 -0400 From: Laurence Krulik Subject: Re: [RS] Clara, etc Folks - Shindell is clearly renowned for his lyrical abilities and I'd think we'd all agree that's one of core reasons Shindell ranks up there as one of the great songwriters of our time. And he's proven it yet again (many times over) with this record. However... with Clara.... can we just cut the guy some slack? Can't this one tune just be a catchy song with no real story behind it? Can't the lyrics just sound good with the music? Can't I just think "Roam" and "Rome" is a cool play on words? Can't having monsters in a song about a mule just be wicked weird? I'm personally not looking into that song too much and will write it off as just being a fun song. I liked it from the minute I heard it live and I'm digging the studio version more and more (although I feel his voice could be a little stronger). On Wed, Mar 25, 2009 at 16:36, John McDonnell wrote: > Hi All, > > Thanks Chris for the good wishes and the info from the WUMB RS > interview--it > puts "Get Up Clara" in perspective for me, but makes it no less > incogruous--as you point out the songwriting and narrative components are > usually very finely tuned. I dont think I need to confess that I have a > tendency to read into things, but will blame that squarely on RS--his work > allows and invites it. It need not be something profound, and can be as > straightforward as an unexpected parallel, as in "Fishing." Perhaps I just > dont like the melody enough to get me through the song, or I was expecting > some kind of Aesop's fable. In a six-degrees-of-kevin-bacon kind of way I > will say this: The Visigoths were defeated by the Franks, one of whose > kings went on to establish the Merovingian dynasty in France, which dynasty > was said to be the descendants of Jesus, as in Mary Magdalene. I'll take > anything at this point. Yes--even if its not there. Sometimes an obessive > compulsion is just an obsessive compulsion. > As for the "point" of certain works--especially RS'--I get that some songs > are not particularly profound, nor do they need to be for me, but the song > doesnt seems as pointedly pointless as say some works where the act or the > process is significant in and of itself. Perhaps the songs roams just like > Clara--who knows? > > Love "Gethsemani Goodbye" too, and some of Chris' observations about the > song fit with my impressions of "The Humpback Whale" of SOD and the Spanish > song on NFN (I dislike referring to it that way, but I have NO Spanish). > Had > a little cognitive dissonance when I first heard it--I expected some kind > New Testament retelling of Jesus experience in the Garden of Gethsemane > where he escapes his captors, kicks Judas' ass, kisses Gethsemane Goodbye > and goes on to join a carnival where he guess people's weight--and he is > always exactly correct, down to the last uncia. > Kidding aside, this song is growing on me. I knew nothing of this Abbey or > Thomas Merton (his name was only vaguely familiar to me as a William Blake > devotee), but I like the distinction between knowing and remembering that > the song seems to set up, and was wondering if this had anything to do with > Merton, his teachings or the Abbey. The narrator remembers everything, but > how he missed the turn he will never know--I like that distinction between > knowledge and remembrance. > > John McD ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 22:13:26 -0400 From: Vanessa Wills Subject: [RS] =?ISO-8859-1?B?VHJhbnNsYXRpbicsIFByb2NyYXN0aW5hdGluJy4uLi4gKEFu IEVuZ2xpc2ggVHJhbnNsYQ==?= =?ISO-8859-1?B?dGlvbiBvZiAiUXXpIEhhZ28gQWhvcmE/Iik=?= On Friday, I will be giving a talk in my department on Hegel's reading of Aristotle's *De Anima*. So you can see now, why tonight I present you with my translation of Silvio Rodriguez's "Qui Hago Ahora?" It's tricky to translate because the lyrics are so highly symbolic. Some of the images are somewhat arresting and unusual, so I checked things over and over to make sure that if a line was "arresting" or "unusual," that was an artifact of the song itself, and not the translation! But I think I've got it. I've tried to preserve meter where possible, and I've tried to err on the side of giving a quite literal translation. Still, it occurs to me that there must be a more pleasing and natural-sounding way to translate the verse about the moon. I translated the word "verdedera" here as "sincere," although it is actually ambiguous as among the meanings "true," "real," or "sincere." "Sincere" made the most sense to me given the rest of the song, but YMMV. "True" would have been the most literal way to translate it, but the context would have forced a rather metaphorical reading of the word "true," anyhow. Also, in Spanish it is unambiguous that the speaker is referring to the moon as being "sincere" (or "true," or "real") but there's no good way to do this in English without really butchering the poetry of the original verse in Spanish. Enjoy! If any of you Spanish-speakers out there have suggestions, I'm happy to hear them! *Qui Hago Ahora? (What Do I Do Now?) * Lyrics by Silvio Rodriguez, English Translation by Vanessa Wills Where do I put what is found In the streets, in the books In the night, in the faces In which I've searched for you? Where do I put what is found In the land, in your name, In the Bible, on the day That I finally met you? What do I say to Death, so many times called to my side? That after all, my sister's returned? What do I say to the empty glory of being alone, Making me the sad one, making me the wolf? What do I say to the dogs that used to go with me On lost, friendless nights? What do I say to the moon that I believed a companion Of nights and nights without being sincere? What do I do now with you? The pigeons that go to sleep in the parks Don't speak to me now What do I do now with you Now that you are the moon, the dogs, The nights, all of my friends? - --end-- Cheers, Vanessa - -- "True compassion is more than flinging a coin to a beggar. It comes to see that an edifice which produces beggars needs restructuring." - --Martin Luther King ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 20:09:24 PDT From: Subject: Re: [RS] Gethsemani Goodbye I quite unexpectedly ran into Richard at The Ark on St. Patrick's Day (Crooked Still was playing). I didn't want to interrupt him from seeing a show, but during intermission I briefly spoke to him about the new album. Gethsemani Goodbye has been in my head since I got the album, so I only asked about that song. He was quite open about the meaning. I'm paraphrasing, but he said it's a relationship song. The road trip (in and of itself) and the destination (the whole Merton subplot) was to aid the story. The real meaning had to do with the damage done to the relationship due to "having gone too far." Upon my 20th listening or so, I had started to "look" deeper into the song and had gotten almost there, so it was nice to be able to ask about the meaning directly. Theresa On Tue Mar 24 10:03 , Janet Cinelli sent: I too like this song and to me it sounds like a straight-up apology to the person who wanted to go on this trip. Because of the narrator's impatience, anger, stubborness,(couldn't he just ask for directions??) they don't get to go. I think I wrote about this song in an earlier post. I like the play on words about having gone too far. I'd like to comment on Richard covering Dave Carter's song, The Mountain. At first, I was so-so about it but now I love it. I especially like the piano bits that come in from time to time. It reminds me of Dave. Janet --- On Tue, 3/24/09, Lisanne wrote: > > I also have spent some time trying to figure out what > he's saying. Mostly, > > to me, it seems to be more about his own regret. But, > of course, there are > > usually layers of meaning in RS' music. ------------------------------ End of shindell-list-digest V10 #53 ***********************************