From: owner-shindell-list-digest@smoe.org (shindell-list-digest) To: shindell-list-digest@smoe.org Subject: shindell-list-digest V9 #208 Reply-To: shindell-list@smoe.org Sender: owner-shindell-list-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-shindell-list-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk shindell-list-digest Tuesday, March 4 2008 Volume 09 : Number 208 Today's Subjects: ----------------- [RS] Re: (OT).Smother Brothers [Openingstar@aol.com] Re: [RS] Re: (OT).Smother Brothers [Janet Cinelli ] Re: [RS] Waist Deep Big Muddy [Greg Dennis ] Re: [RS] Waist Deep Big Muddy [njohnson@ent.umass.edu] Re: [RS] WUMB Live at Noon today - Feb. 29, 2008 ["Chris Foxwell" ] [RS] Waist deep in Richard's songs. [rongrittz@aol.com] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2008 11:03:03 EST From: Openingstar@aol.com Subject: [RS] Re: (OT).Smother Brothers This may sound off topic as far as RS but on topic as far as 'those times' & The Smothers Bros. Few of you probably remember The Chambers Bros. but they had a song "Time Has Come Today" that they had a gold record with....circa 66-68. My boyfriend, the late Brian Keenan was the drummer and it was , probably harder for younger folks to conceive today, quite groundbreaking that they were an integrated rock and roll group singing 'The Time Has Come Today'. They personally felt it was a call to change.....not just integration, but for the war to stop and , as we niavely envisioned in the 60's, minds and hearts to expand to be more loving on a worldwide level. Just wanted to share that of all the TV shows they wereon ( Johnny Carson, Ed Sullivan, Della Reese) Brian was MOST proud and thrilled with being on and meeting The Smothers Brothers. They were such heroes getting away with speaking truth....in a medium ( pre Internet ) that had an immediacy and reach like no other . I don't know exactly how it worked, but I heard that The Smothers Brothers did not own rights to the shows and many do not even exist anymore. A friend did find ( on a file sharing site) Brian's performance on The Smothers Bros, for me.....and since he has passed, it meant even more for me to have this. I had copies made for each of his nieces and nephews. Home on restricted activity due to a spinal thing and really upset to be unable to see Richard perform this weekend....!!!! Bonnie Margolis in Stamford, CT _www.myspace.com/bonnieone1_ (http://www.myspace.com/bonnieone1) **************It's Tax Time! Get tips, forms, and advice on AOL Money & Finance. (http://money.aol.com/tax?NCID=aolprf00030000000001) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2008 08:32:04 -0800 (PST) From: Janet Cinelli Subject: Re: [RS] Re: (OT).Smother Brothers To take it a tad more off topic regarding RS, PBS had shown an awesome show about Pete Seeger. It is being replayed in the New York area tomorrow. Here's some info: Pete Seeger: The Power of Song Thursday, Mar 6 at 08:00 pm WNET (ch 13) The 21st-season opener profiles folksinger Peter Seeger, whom the Dixie Chicks' Natalie Maines calls a "living testament to the First Amendment." Spiced by archival photos and film, the bio features . . . Janet ____________________________________________________________________________________ Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2008 07:02:00 -0800 (PST) From: Greg Dennis Subject: Re: [RS] Waist Deep Big Muddy The American Master series on PBS featured Pete last week and showed a clip of his singing the song on the Smother Brothers show. He sang it as "big fool says to push on" and with a slightly different arrangement. - - Greg - ----- Original Message ---- From: MICHAEL MARMER LINDA MARMER To: shindell-list-digest Sent: Monday, March 3, 2008 10:50:58 PM Subject: [RS] Waist Deep Big Muddy I looked up the lyrics to Waist Deep and Richard added the word Damn over Big in the song. Which is fine to me, but I wonder why he did that. Here is a bit about the Smothers Brothers and the song. Mike Marmer Waist Deep in the Big Muddy" - In 1967, folk singer Pete Seeger (blacklisted from TV for some 20 years) was scheduled to play the song "Waist Deep in the Big Muddy" on the controversial variety program THE SMOTHERS BROTHERS SHOW/CBS/1967-69. However, CBS refused to air the song which told the story of about a WWII officer killed because of his own foolishness. Afraid to insult the political powers, CBS refused to allow the song (he did, however, perform the song on a later episode). The country at the time was itself "deep" in the Vietnam War. In October 1968 CBS executives began to prescreen all of Smothers Brothers their programs. After several tumultuous seasons, the program was canceled (the Smothers Brothers called it being "Fired") and left the air in June of 1969. The CBS network justified their cancellation by referring to network policy that "Prohibits appeals for active support of any cause" (even if it was "peace"). ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 03 Mar 2008 23:06:00 -0500 From: njohnson@ent.umass.edu Subject: Re: [RS] Waist Deep Big Muddy Michael asked: > I looked up the lyrics to Waist Deep and Richard added the word Damn over Big in the song. Which is fine to me, but I wonder why he did that.<< The short and general reason is that Richard and other interpreters like tinkering with songs. Richard changed "North Montana" to "west Montana" in James Keelaghan's Cold Missouri Waters because people in Montana refer to west vs east more than north vs south. But for Big Muddy, Richard was actually following Dick Gaughan's version of the Seeger song and the Gaughan version has "damn fool" rather than "big fool". http://www.dickgaughan.co.uk/songs/texts/bigmuddy.html I've heard Richard sometimes takes the damn out of Kenworth when he's performing it in churches. Norman ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2008 13:59:29 -0500 From: "Chris Foxwell" Subject: Re: [RS] WUMB Live at Noon today - Feb. 29, 2008 Here's a quick summary of the interview, for those who missed it. It was about 30-45 minutes long, and Richard played "Get Up Clara," "Balloon Man," and "Mavis." (Maybe one other...? Can't remember.) He and the interviewer talked a bit about the songwriting process, and about where Richard's head is these days (in terms of writing songs), and they bickered a fair amount about certain aspects of the songs. It was kind of funny; the interviewer would say something like "now, I find it really interesting that that song [Clara] doesn't have a chorus," and Richard would say "no, it's got a chorus." Then they went back and forth about it. It cracked me up a couple of times, although it didn't paint a very complimentary picture of the interviewer. Another such disagreement concerned the focus of "Balloon Man," although I'm forgetting exactly what the interviewer thought the song was about. (Richard said "well, no, it's about Balloon Man.") The interesting part, to me, was Richard's description of what kinds of songs he finds himself writing, and listening to, now. Apparently he's more interested nowadays in songs that are simply "about themselves." No overarching symbolism, no layered meanings; just songs, simple and pretty and even nonsensical. "So sometimes a mule is just a mule," as the interviewer remarked (about Clara) during that discussion. (To which Richard assented.) The interview ended with a brief discussion of "The Humpback Whale," how the song is by Harry Robertson but Richard was more inspired by Nick Lowe's version. The only disappointing thing about the interview is that my recorder seems to have started it a little late, and I missed the first third of "Get Up Clara." A pity, because it was a really nice version of it. Chris - -- "We were born in a dark age out of due time (for us). But there is this comfort: otherwise we should not know, or so much love, what we do love. I imagine the fish out of water is the only fish to have an inkling of water." - --J.R.R. Tolkien ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2008 05:49:21 -0500 From: "MICHAEL MARMER LINDA MARMER" Subject: [RS] Re: Big Muddy Not sure if this got posted, as it goes with the other post that did. Mike ----- Original Message ----- From: MICHAEL MARMER LINDA MARMER To: shindell-list-digest Sent: Monday, March 03, 2008 10:47 PM Subject: Big Muddy http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ENXhShuof1I PBS did a great show on Pete Seeger, as we all know that Richard Shindell did his song "Waist Deep in The Big Muddy". The above is a link to the Smother's Brother show where Seeger sings the song. I have heard Shindell said that was the song that got the show cancel. It did not. It probably was part of many that lead up to the cancellation of the Smother's Brother show, as CBS did tell them that he could not sing the song, but they CBS said okay. In the song on TV Seeger sing "Big Fool" about the captain instead of "Damn Fool" on the Shindell version. I am sure the Seeger version is Damn Fool as TV back then was more censored of many words and things. But in all, a great showing of Seeger on the show. By the way, Pete Seeger was in the Service and did serve overseas in WW2, so I think he can sing songs like these as he experienced war. What got him to write the song was seeing people up to there waist in a river in Viet Nam. Mike Marmer ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2008 16:08:21 -0500 From: rongrittz@aol.com Subject: [RS] Waist deep in Richard's songs. >> No overarching symbolism, no layered meanings << You know, as I think about Richard's songs, I've never really considered them to be loaded down with overarching symbolism or layered meanings. Yeah, I guess there's some in "Mavis," "Transit" and a handful of others, but for the most part, they've always seemed (to me, anyway) to be relatively straightforward story songs or character pieces. Am I wrong here? RG ------------------------------ End of shindell-list-digest V9 #208 ***********************************