From: owner-shindell-list-digest@smoe.org (shindell-list-digest) To: shindell-list-digest@smoe.org Subject: shindell-list-digest V7 #279 Reply-To: shindell-list@smoe.org Sender: owner-shindell-list-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-shindell-list-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk shindell-list-digest Friday, November 18 2005 Volume 07 : Number 279 Today's Subjects: ----------------- [RS] Re: shindell-list-digest V7 #278 [DrTobs@aol.com] [RS] LFOTD literal cabbie... [Christy Thomas ] TNBW (was: Re: [RS] LFOTD literal cabbie...) [john cleirigh ] Re: [RS] tNBW - truck driver..?... [john cleirigh ] [RS] RE: Spanish Inquisition II ["Randy Beckham" ] Re: [RS] tNBW - truck driver..?... [Sandy Smith Subject: [RS] LFOTD literal cabbie... John McD wrote: > I suppose, then, the question I have for those of > you who feel a connection > with the song is that would you feel that connection > without a September 11 > context? I don't mean that in a confrontational way; > I mean it as a real > inquiry. I'm not sure how I would feel about the song without the Sept 11 context - as that is the context in which I have heard it. However, I do think that the themes the song touches upon - loss/hopelessness/despair, the futility of our every day existence and life/hope/grace would still be meaningful to me. In the same way? Probably not. But meaningful still... > I'm a sucker for the symbolic in the actual--I may > be predisposed to it, in > fact--but one of the reasons I admire and am drawn > to RS is that the actual > he writes about is often so powerful: the reality of > immigration and > deportation, an infidelity, an abandoned lover, even > a guy with his truck. > He just does it so well. agreed...and i doubt many people see Next Best Western as just a song about a guy driving a truck. i mean it IS about a guy driving a truck - but it is the way we can connect to that guy's journey, his longing, his questions, his weariness... much in the same way, i see LFOTD as about the cabbie - - but he is the vehicle (pardon the pun, it was truly unintended) through which we can connect to the experience described. he is a kind of a witness to the lives around him - as we all are - and even without the 9/11 connection, i can relate to his witnessing pain (hell, that's what i do for a living!) - and, perhaps even without a large scale tragedy, there are times he sees pain over and over and over and begins to feel like, "what's the point?" ... i'll "take them home" - i'll do my small part in their lives ... what else can i do? but witness/share in their pain. the flip side is that there are also times that as witnesses to other people's lives, we get to share in their joy. i experience the time between the two last fare's in the song as a time during which the cabbie was going through the motions - doing his job every day on autopilot. i imagine him depressed ...and pondering the futility of what he does (but maybe that is projection) - he "just" takes people home... Question from John McD: > So, is it possible just to > look at LFOTD as the > song of a cabbie on any given day, and identify with > him and the couples--or > am I being too reductive in that question? i think it is possible in the same way one can identify with the trucker in Next Best Western. in fact, until now, i never realized the similarities between the two songs. like the power of the moment in LOFTD in which "our eyes met in the mirror"...perhaps the only time their eyes meet - and yet the cabbie is SO aware of their pain. reminds me of "I look him in the eye, but there isn't any time" from Next Best Western. although in Last Fare - the pain connects them...in NBW, it always felt to me like the trucker in NBW is longing for a connection that can't happen (or isn't happening) in the rush and flow of his daily life. so is this just a song about a cabbie - no, in true RS form, it is a song about all of us...in my opinion. anyway - i could go on and on (even more than i already have - but what's the point? ;) again i say i don't think this is RS's best song ever - - but it is a damn good song. back to lurking...christy ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2005 07:29:09 -0800 From: john cleirigh Subject: TNBW (was: Re: [RS] LFOTD literal cabbie...) On 11/17/05, Christy Thomas wrote: >> agreed...and i doubt many people see Next Best Western as just a song about a guy driving a truck. i mean it IS about a guy driving a truck - but it is the way we can connect to that guy's journey, his longing, his questions, his weariness...<< I have never viewed the voice in this song as that of a truck driver. For me he's driving a car amongst the truck drivers. I've put a lot of miles on my cars, driving to gigs, festivals, staying in chain motels... I once drove 1,500 miles in 24 hours and near the end of that journey, searching for the Super 8, the conversation in my head seemed more like prayer than the delusional ravings of a sleep-deprived mind suffering from white line fever -- as one might expect. Getting to that motel became the metephor for arriving at a much bigger destination on my life's journey, and I knew I needed divine intervention to make it there whole. Meditation on the long, black ribbon can be an enlightening, if not a completely scary undertaking. - -- John Cleirigh | P.O. Box 1515 | Felton | CA | 95018 831.239.5564 | http://johncleirigh.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2005 09:33:02 -0800 (PST) From: Christy Thomas Subject: [RS] TNBW - truck driver..?... I mis-typed and/or mis-thought about the guy in the next best western this morning (i should know better than to post pre-coffee!)... I don't think of the narrator in NBW as a trucker - not sure why i said i did...guess the image of the truckers got mixed in with the narrator this morning - when i was more focused on the cabbie...and in great need of coffee... christy ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2005 10:19:04 -0800 From: john cleirigh Subject: Re: [RS] tNBW - truck driver..?... Hi Christy, Tho I've been an on-again off-again member of this list for almost 6 years, I've never read a discussion of Next Best Western, so I have no idea what others think about it. All I know is that my own experience informed my view of the song. I think I do that automatically with every song I hear, but when I have no applicable experience I guess I learn something new. And I appreciate pre-coffee posts! ;-) And for that matter, when the cab driver turns off the radio in LFotD, I think of it not as a broadcast radio sharing the latest news of the day, but the two-way radio squawking the conversations between the dispatchers and other cab drivers. A considerate driver would do a few things to make an ill-at-ease passenger more comfortable: turn the meter dark, turn off the two-way, take it slow and easy. john On 11/17/05, Christy Thomas wrote: > I mis-typed and/or mis-thought about the guy in the > next best western this morning (i should know better > than to post pre-coffee!)... > > I don't think of the narrator in NBW as a trucker - > not sure why i said i did...guess the image of the > truckers got mixed in with the narrator this morning - > when i was more focused on the cabbie...and in great > need of coffee... ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2005 20:34:19 GMT From: "Randy Beckham" Subject: [RS] RE: Spanish Inquisition II "I suppose, then, the question I have for those of you who feel a connection with the song is that would you feel that connection without a September 11 context?" Yes, since I really don't feel that context. "So, is it possible just to look at LFOTD as the song of a cabbie on any given day, and identify with him and the couples--or am I being too reductive in that question?" This is interesting, since thinking "critically," this cabbie is one really sensitive dude, and the last line that you cited earlier doesn't seem "realistic." I feel a merging of character and author here! So why doesn't that bother me? I could say that the song is a poetic treatment of a cabbie's experience, but really, I just don't feel the disconnect. Sometimes I think that "By Now" is subversive, this gorgeous melody "in the mouth of" this molester/murderer (not everyone sees it that way, I know). Even so, I seldom skip it. "Last Fare" on the other hand just works for me. In Charlottesville, Richard just strummed it, and I didn't get any new insight into the song--about my only regret. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2005 20:42:18 -0800 From: Sandy Smith Subject: Re: [RS] tNBW - truck driver..?... I just thought I'd crawl out of an extremely prolonged lurk and thank John for teaching me how to play The Next Best Western (the first RS song I ever heard - thanks, Lisa - and my first experience with DADGAD). I haven't played in a while; I think it's time to get those callouses back. John, I'll send you an e-mail if I can find your address. Did you ever get that yurt? Sandy P.S. Debbie sends love and kisses. On Nov 17, 2005, at 10:19 AM, john cleirigh wrote: > Hi Christy, > Tho I've been an on-again off-again member of this list for almost 6 > years, I've never read a discussion of Next Best Western, so I have no > idea what others think about it. All I know is that my own experience > informed my view of the song. I think I do that automatically with > every song I hear, but when I have no applicable experience I guess I > learn something new. And I appreciate pre-coffee posts! ;-) > > And for that matter, when the cab driver turns off the radio in LFotD, > I think of it not as a broadcast radio sharing the latest news of the > day, but the two-way radio squawking the conversations between the > dispatchers and other cab drivers. A considerate driver would do a few > things to make an ill-at-ease passenger more comfortable: turn the > meter dark, turn off the two-way, take it slow and easy. > > john > > On 11/17/05, Christy Thomas wrote: > >> I mis-typed and/or mis-thought about the guy in the >> next best western this morning (i should know better >> than to post pre-coffee!)... >> >> I don't think of the narrator in NBW as a trucker - >> not sure why i said i did...guess the image of the >> truckers got mixed in with the narrator this morning - >> when i was more focused on the cabbie...and in great >> need of coffee... ------------------------------ End of shindell-list-digest V7 #279 ***********************************