From: owner-shindell-list-digest@smoe.org (shindell-list-digest) To: shindell-list-digest@smoe.org Subject: shindell-list-digest V7 #36 Reply-To: shindell-list@smoe.org Sender: owner-shindell-list-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-shindell-list-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk shindell-list-digest Friday, February 4 2005 Volume 07 : Number 036 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: [RS] hey [Rongrittz@aol.com] [RS] Re: shindell-list-digest V7 #35 [tdub55@comcast.net] Re: [RS] hey [adam plunkett ] [RS] Pete Seeger etc. [Norman Johnson ] [RS] Insults? Somebody needs thicker skin.... ["Jason@Stanley.net" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2005 18:37:48 EST From: Rongrittz@aol.com Subject: Re: [RS] hey >> I don't understand how anyone can give that guy a pass on the death of a 19-year-old girl and try to tell me that it is wrong and illegal to get rid of Saddam Hussein. << For God's sake, man, you're not even comparing apples to fruit. >> If you're looking for lefty nastiness, look no further than the Mark Morford article posted on this list the other day. If you don't consider it to be nasty then you and I come from different planets. There's been nothing but praise paid on to the article on this list. As a soldier, and as the friend of and the brother to men and women (not "Children") serving currently in Kosovo, Iraq, Kuwait, Afghanastan, Germany, Korea, Honduras, and the states, I was offended by the article. << Then get nasty with the writer of the article, not the members of this list. RG ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 05 Feb 2005 00:06:40 +0000 From: tdub55@comcast.net Subject: [RS] Re: shindell-list-digest V7 #35 > but I cannot see a "third party" ever. > Polarization seems to be the name of the game these days. The political landscape has left those in the middle with nowhere to turn but to the "least offensive" option. The political operatives, the media and the public must shoulder the blame for creating a "pro wrestling" atmosphere in what used to pass for political discourse. Exhibit A: > > > despite what Teddy "Chappaquiddick" Kennedy and John > > > "Trophy Husband" Kerry might tell you...." And the right wing calls the left wing, "mean spirited"? From my perspective, I have never seen a more smug group of sore winners in my life. People who feel that 51% represents a sweeping mandate. >>the situation in Iraq has very little in common with the war in Viet Nam other >>than both being wars. I can provide for you a list of the dissimilarities between >>the two if you like. Please do. No, it's not all about resource exploitation, colonialization, global security. But it sure as hell isn't all about the noble virtue of freeing opressed people, either. That rationale came into Republican vogue after the veneer of WMDs turned out the be either incredibly inept intelligence or a skillful sell job to a frightened public.. Now it seems like if we throw terms like "freedom" and "liberty" out enough, people will (and do) buy it, hook-line-sinker. Same for the term, "fair and balanced", for that matter. These terms carry all the meaning and moral resonance of "Where's the beef?" in these times. tw ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2005 16:18:31 -0800 (PST) From: adam plunkett Subject: Re: [RS] hey "Big Muddy" was written by Pete Seeger and he served from 1942 to 1945. Bill Chmelir wrote: I just think the message is written from the perspective of someone who hasn't served. Was the original artist a soldier? Yahoo! Mail - Helps protect you from nasty viruses. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 04 Feb 2005 19:16:57 -0500 From: Norman Johnson Subject: [RS] Pete Seeger etc. >> I just think the message is written from the perspective of someone who hasn't served. Was the original artist a soldier? By the way, Lieutenants are in charge of 99% of the Army's "good platoons". Lieutenants are platoon leaders. Captains are Company Commanders. Details details....<< Pete Seeger, who wrote the song, was in the army. He was drafted in 1942 and spent his tour of service in the Pacific. http://www.ecotopia.org/ehof/seeger/ As for why the Captain was in charge. There's no mention that the Captain was their regular leader. Remember that they were on maneuvers and don't more senior officers sometimes command during maneuvers? It actually makes more sense that the Captain was someone who was an outsider, someone who thought he knew better. Norman ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 04 Feb 2005 18:26:36 -0600 From: "Jason@Stanley.net" Subject: [RS] Insults? Somebody needs thicker skin.... I am just curious, is the insult you guys are referring to " despite what Teddy "Chappaquiddick" Kennedy and John "Trophy Husband" Kerry might tell you" If that is what you consider partisian nastiness, you guys need to wake up. Of course no matter what I say about the left being just as bad or worse, you are on the left so you must be right. And yes "Waist deep in the Big Muddy" is a great song. Very pertinent for Vietnam. Richard's version blows away the original. Saying it is relevant to Iraq is a long long stretch. Maybe in another 40 years of the same thing going on it would count. I guarantee if any of you spent one day as an Iraqi under Saddam's regime you would be on your knees not only for Saddam probably being tortured but praying the US would come save you. Did you happen to notice the miles of people lined up to vote? They risked their lives for the chance. To say it wasn't worth it is a disservice to men and women who have died trying to give them that freedom. Did anyone notice after the vote even Kerry couldn't say something positive without prefacing it with a negative comment? If you want to get into an argument about how "nasty" and "insulting" the left can be, let me know, I'll even take the time to make a list and quote them. Ted Kennedy and Robert Byrd come directly to mind but I am sure if I look I can find one or two more. I hope I didn't offend anyone with my sarcasm but you guys need to get a grip and realize how lucky we all are to be Americans and to be in a position to be able to help them. It may be a long road but hopefully in the end it shows to be worth it. Believe it or not I consider myself kind of liberal on many topics but compared to some of the posts I have seen here I am way right for this newslist. At least I have one or two people on here for company. As far as being rude or nasty, I would rather try and be more humorous (may be feeble attempts) than mean even though we almost all differ in opinion. You all can't be all bad and you definitely have good taste in music. God Bless America. Jason Stanley ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 04 Feb 2005 20:33:59 -0500 From: Pfleary@aol.com Subject: [RS] Pete Seeger (aka the original artist) Bill displays his complete ignorance of the genre by querying: >>>I just think the message is written from the perspective of someone who hasn't served. Was the original artist a soldier? The original artist to whom you are referring is Folk Legend and American icon Pete Seeger. And yes, as a matter of fact he did serve, drafted in 1942. Also, I am surprised to hear you say that the message seems to be written from the perspective of one who has not served. I have heard plenty of stories about military leaders who were stupid, stubborn and foolhardy from my father, my uncles, and guys my age who have been in the armed services. This analogy is quite apt for our current president and his foreign policy. Following a leader blindly is not patriotic, it's just dangerous. Peter ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 04 Feb 2005 20:56:16 -0500 From: sharon G Subject: [RS] waist deeper and deeper I think that politics has been a dirty game for a long time.. i think there are boundaries but Karl Rove doesnt seem to have any... How could he challenge the military service of Kerry when no one in the current admin served... HOw many more lies can be told about WMD... Starr called Clinton every name in book because he lied about an affair..( i dont support his action but i dont care who he had sex with and still dont) He was called by many names and was distracted from the work of his adminstration.. Lets not talk about what they called Hillary... sure Pres Clinton was stupid as a Rhodes scholar but human.. the spin machines or Limbaugh, Hannity, the Oreilly Factor Factor and the FOX machine.. are contrived and purposeful in getting out the daily talking points.. We are moving close and close to a Religious run state....i watch social service dollars allocated to faith based organizations... not jewish or muslim ones by the way, and i see billions of dollars used for a war when children dont have medical coverage,food, school books or a chance...a real chance to compete.. college educations, health care for the working poor..and a squandered Social security surplus the current adminstration is conducting infractions of liberty and civil rights under the name of the Patriots Act.. Lying about Iraq and OIL and we as americans allow it.. Even more.. He was reelected... someone said to me that I was pissed because we knew he was the Village Idiot and he was elected anyway... some friends who campaigned republican have been finacially rewarded for their efforts..and the win.. the current political climate is not just THEM and US...there are not bounds to how far this administration will go for money, power and oil... some say the Dead soldiers mom and the Iraqi woman's embrace was as staged as the pulling down of the statue or the jessica lynch capture.. watch Homeland Security carefully... i dont feel more secure.. Just living in permanent code orange or tangerine.. sharonG ------------------------------ End of shindell-list-digest V7 #36 **********************************