From: owner-shindell-list-digest@smoe.org (shindell-list-digest) To: shindell-list-digest@smoe.org Subject: shindell-list-digest V7 #12 Reply-To: shindell-list@smoe.org Sender: owner-shindell-list-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-shindell-list-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk shindell-list-digest Friday, January 14 2005 Volume 07 : Number 012 Today's Subjects: ----------------- [RS] Folkwax Artist and Album of the Year [Christy Thomas ] [RS] RE: Cold Missouri Waters ["Theresa Marsik" ] Re: [RS] Go ahead, push your luck... ["kunigunda" ] [RS] Re: pushing luck [k.m.oneill@att.net] Re: [RS] Folkwax Artist and Album of the Year ["kunigunda" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2005 05:48:12 -0800 (PST) From: Christy Thomas Subject: [RS] Folkwax Artist and Album of the Year Hi all... Richard and his lovely CD are nominated for Folkwax Artist and Album of the year. You may vote by going to http://www.visnat.com/entertainment/music/folkwax/ You probably have to register...but it's free...and sometimes has really great articles (other times it gets deleted rather quickly). Anyway, it is another way to find out about new artists, too... Best, christy __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Get it on your mobile phone. http://mobile.yahoo.com/maildemo ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2005 09:24:37 -0500 From: rfoxwell@wso.williams.edu Subject: Re: [RS] Go ahead, push your luck... Quoting k.m.oneill@att.net: > And then I listen a little further and find that he says "What comes out gray > is really red" and I think the worst. Did he set the timer, shoot himself > with a gun and then expected that a photo be taken of his demise? I > listened over and over and that was the only conclusion... Oh my! That would be quite the morbid tale. Yikes! Trick or treat, indeed... :) It's interesting, I've never really considered alternate interpretations of that line/imagery. From my first listening, I had a specific non-physical meaning in mind, and I'm surprised to hear others suggest physical ideas like red-rimmed eyes. (Very nice, I like that a lot.) I believe that the "red" that the narrator refers to is the hot, angry feeling of hurt and betrayal. You know how someone who is blind with rage or bitterness is sometimes said to be "seeing red"? That's what I think of: the narrator documenting his emotional state with the camera, saying "yeah, the photo might come out grey, but what I'm seeing and feeling is red." In my opinion, he is literally photographing his "head" (not really his face), and the emotions and thoughts that are broiling within it. I think this works well with the overall tone of the song, which is not one of suicidal despair or even crying-your-eyes-out sadness, but of bitterness, petty resentfulness, even anger. "I smashed your pumpkin on the floor"; "you never paid your half the rent"; "I still maintain that he's a bum / but it's your money, have some fun"; "I dedicate this one to you"...these sentiments are indicative of resentfulness and a kind of petty lashing-out, physically and verbally, and the idea of trying to photograph his bitterness fits in well. - --Chris ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2005 10:36:57 -0800 (PST) From: Christy Thomas Subject: [RS] Go ahead, push your luck Interesting comments on AYHN...here's a bit of my take...and a great deal of it is clearly influenced by my own experiences. i, of course, have no idea what richard intended. i must admit...i did contemplate the shooting himself interpretation briefly...the image of putting the lens up to his head brought with it an image of a gun rather than a camera to me...but i was much less happy then... like Chris, I had always interpreted the photograph of his head to be a photo of what was inside his head...the red to me was both anger and being wounded so-to-speak. in addition, i made the interpretation that "what comes out grey is really red" was about the man appearing not to be angry and hurt...playing his emotions close to the chest...and the woman might think her leaving had no impact on him because of his lack of expressed hurt/anger/bitterness/etc...but, if she could see inside his head - she'd know he was very hurt and angry. he took the photo for her because he didn't (or couldn't) tell her... my 2 cents... and i love that richard uses "rolls in black and white" and "roll of black and white"...perhaps if some of that red inside his head were a part of the relationship - instead of the black and white rolls...she wouldn't have gone... or maybe she would've gone...but wouldn't have taken the candy, too! ;-) i AM happy now as a matter of fact! peace, christy __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - You care about security. So do we. http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2005 15:20:09 -0500 From: "Theresa Marsik" Subject: [RS] RE: Cold Missouri Waters I read Norman Maclean's book Young Men and Fire after I heard Cry Cry Cry sing Cold Missouri Waters. The book was interesting, but it was not written in the most concise style. I do recommend it, but make sure you're not sleepy when you pick it up! :) Carrie mentioned seeing reference to the Fire on the Mountain video, hosted by Norman's son John. I watched this when it originally aired on the History Channel. It, too, was very interesting, although it was sad to realize that most of the 14 smokejumpers who died on Storm King should have known better (especially after the lessons learned in the Mann Gulch fire). RS content - I'll be seeing him at the Ann Arbor Folk Festival in a couple weeks. Theresa ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2005 23:06:54 -0600 From: "kunigunda" Subject: Re: [RS] Go ahead, push your luck... Chris sez I believe that the "red" that the narrator refers to is the hot, angry feeling of hurt and betrayal. You know how someone who is blind with rage or bitterness is sometimes said to be "seeing red"? That's what I think of: the narrator documenting his emotional state with the camera, saying "yeah, the photo might come out grey, but what I'm seeing and feeling is red." In my opinion, he is literally photographing his "head" (not really his face), and the emotions and thoughts that are broiling within it. And I agree - seems very accurate to me. carrie in kc - -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.6.11 - Release Date: 1/12/2005 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2005 05:31:46 +0000 From: k.m.oneill@att.net Subject: [RS] Re: pushing luck I love all of the responses. Thanks everyone. I think this line will always seem ambiguous to me. The meaning is not spelled out and therefore our interpretations are varied and to me that is what makes such a great song. Funny, to me, how that line is in the beginning of the song and I had overlooked it for at least 20 or so listens and 'then' it struck me. It made me think back to when he said she didn't have to bring the spices back. I kept thinking how he said 'head' and I know it rhymes with red but it just struck me as something I needed to think about. I love the fact that writing a song for her was the one thing he regretted not doing and then he comes up with this one. This is why I love the sticking the tongue out theory. Which reminds me ...Sandra, who is Henry Rollins and why on earth did he do that to you? kate ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2005 22:58:46 -0600 From: "kunigunda" Subject: Re: [RS] Folkwax Artist and Album of the Year Registered and tried to vote. I guess today was the first day. The nominees weren't listed yet. Carrie in KC - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Christy Thomas" To: Sent: Thursday, January 13, 2005 7:48 AM Subject: [RS] Folkwax Artist and Album of the Year > Hi all... > > Richard and his lovely CD are nominated for Folkwax > Artist and Album of the year. You may vote by going > to > > http://www.visnat.com/entertainment/music/folkwax/ > > You probably have to register...but it's free...and > sometimes has really great articles (other times it > gets deleted rather quickly). Anyway, it is another > way to find out about new artists, too... > > Best, > > christy > > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Get it on your mobile phone. > http://mobile.yahoo.com/maildemo > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.6.11 - Release Date: 1/12/2005 > > - -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.6.11 - Release Date: 1/12/2005 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2005 23:32:48 -0800 From: "Sandra J. Smith" Subject: [RS] Re: pushing luck >Which reminds me ...Sandra, who is Henry Rollins and why on earth >did he do that to you? > kate He's a musician. Extremely famous in punk rock circles. During the punk explosion of the late 70s and early 80s, he was the frontman and lead singer of one of the top bands in Los Angeles, "Black Flag." Since they split up he's done a lot on his own. Here's one website about him: http://21361.com/ And as for why he did it . . . it was because he was a jerk. ------------------------------ End of shindell-list-digest V7 #12 **********************************