From: owner-shindell-list-digest@smoe.org (shindell-list-digest) To: shindell-list-digest@smoe.org Subject: shindell-list-digest V6 #246 Reply-To: shindell-list@smoe.org Sender: owner-shindell-list-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-shindell-list-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk shindell-list-digest Friday, November 5 2004 Volume 06 : Number 246 Today's Subjects: ----------------- [RS] Chicken Soup ["Donald Frick" ] RE: [RS] Mandate My Arse ["Gina Alongi" ] Re: [RS] Mandates? [FJPQ@aol.com] [RS] Re: shindell-list-digest V6 #242 [Jennifer Coia ] [RS] Election [Deb Woodell ] RE: [RS] Election ["Donald Frick" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 5 Nov 2004 11:58:12 -0700 From: "Donald Frick" Subject: [RS] Chicken Soup I just wanted to say a quick thank you for everyone's comments this week about the week's events; they have definitely given me some comfort knowing that people feel the same way as I do. I live in Colorado, a 'red' state, so I definitely get the sense of the pervasiveness of support for Bush, and it's frustrating. I won't go into any of the details of how strongly I disagree with Bush, I think most of it's been covered. This election has changed me. Before I would say that I was somewhat complacent about politics (this was only my second presidential election though). Now I feel the need to really get involved. Last week I went to see Mindy Smith in concert (if you haven't seen or heard of her, I highly recommend). At the end of her concert she did an a cappella version of "Let there be Pease on Earth" - very moving, and really reinforced how I felt about the direction of this country. Richard's music too has taken on another level of depth for me and has given some comfort to me this week. For example the 'my true love's eyes' verse in So Says the Whippoorwill has taken on a whole new meaning to me - but maybe that's how he intended it in the first place, I don't know. Anyway, thanks for all the 'chicken soup' for my brain and for my heart this week. I have read it all with great interest, all the while shaking my head (up and down), and taking comfort in the fact that we're not alone in our convictions. - -Don ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Nov 2004 12:06:09 -0800 From: "Gina Alongi" Subject: RE: [RS] Mandate My Arse Speaking of mandates... I've been watching Daily Show clips online (http://www.comedycentral.com/tv_shows/thedailyshowwithjonstewart/), and in one, Daily Show White House correspondent Ed Helms responds to Jon Stewart's suggestion that Bush might have to make some concessions in order to "reunite" the country and accomplish his agenda: "Concessions?! Jon, this is a man who lost the popular vote last time and interpreted that as a mandate. This time he won straight up, 51 to 48 percent -- to him, that's a shut out!" Ah, too true. - -Gina ******************************************** "every election feels like the perfect crime, like you can fool all the people all the time..." - -p. mulvey ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Nov 2004 15:24:37 EST From: FJPQ@aol.com Subject: Re: [RS] Mandates? In a message dated 11/5/2004 1:49:53 PM Eastern Standard Time, larkinmj@cox.net writes: <> My brother sent me this pic...said it is his new favorite newspaper! :-) Fran [demime 0.97c-p1 removed an attachment of type image/jpeg which had a name of DailyMirror2.jpg] ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Nov 2004 15:25:16 -0500 From: Jennifer Coia Subject: [RS] Re: shindell-list-digest V6 #242 Ron, this is a good point. However, I think the biggest factor into this problem is that religion has entered the equation, and when it comes to faith and beliefs, you can almost never change someone's mind. You can't talk with facts and compromise anymore. Belief has nothing to do with evidence. It's no longer a matter of saying, "Look at the evidence of X and it shows you that X is not working." People will go to many extremes including war (Hello, middle east and Ireland) to protect their religious beliefs. I think that is why this is so scary. I don't look at this as Republicans vs. Democrats discussing political values. I feel like we're dangerously close to a religious war here. I'm as thick headed as anyone. No one is going to convince me that Gay Marriage is a sin and that it threatens the institution of marriage, and so it goes with every issue we've come to group into "Core Values". On Thursday, November 4, 2004, at 09:19 PM, shindell-list-digest wrote: > What really bothers me is that NO ONE from ANY group in ANY country > seems > to be willing to talk anymore. The word compromise doesn't seem to > exist. Every group / faction insists that they are absolutely right, > the > other side is absolutely wrong, and there is no middle ground; so > everyone > be damned. Sorry people, but things are rarely that black and white. > Some of you are scared of George Bush. I am scared of human nature. > Ron A ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Nov 2004 15:59:12 EST From: Patience9@aol.com Subject: [RS] OT If you are going to rehash the same old politics can you at least put OT on the post so the rest of us can skip it. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Nov 2004 21:00:13 GMT From: "ptpowerlists@juno.com" Subject: Re: [RS] turning bush's weaknesses into strengths... Christy wrote: >>During the campaign, my very conservative uncle sent me MANY political e-mails one in which issues or past events were listed and the words, "GOOD" and "BAD" were applied to each...my response at the time and my continued outrage with the Bush supporters is that things are rarely IF EVER that clear cut...Bush reduces things to this point and (roughly half) of the American people.<< A week and a half ago or so, I received an email out of the blue and for once decided to respond to it. The replies I got from my "Reply All" email were interesting to say the least. I posted themat my blog if anyone is interested in them. Pat http://voiceofpower.net ________________________________________________________________ Juno Platinum $9.95. Juno SpeedBand $14.95. Sign up for Juno Today at http://www.juno.com! Look for special offers at Best Buy stores. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Nov 2004 15:57:18 EST From: Patience9@aol.com Subject: [RS] secret gays Yes hun, with what there are of men, we sure have...lol Is it possible that these right-wing fundamentalist fanatics that have taken over our country are secretly gay themselves? They all claim that they have "man dates". ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Nov 2004 23:23:40 +0100 From: "Paul Mepschen" Subject: [RS] america I love these lines in Ani Difranco's Subdivision - gonna see her in Amsterdam Tuesday by the way. God bless that! "so we're led by denial like lambs to the slaughter serving empires of style and carbonated sugar water and the old farm road's a four-lane that leads to the mall and our dreams are all guillotines waiting to fall" Paul ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Nov 2004 17:28:54 -0800 (PST) From: Deb Woodell Subject: [RS] Election As I've written on other lists since the election, if "moral values" are going to become the watchword, then the Left need to do something about the Right's claim to that ground. There needs to be a Democrat who is not afraid to speak openly about his faith and mean it ... and whose outspoken faith is not a turn-off to others on the Left. No one ever doubted Jimmy Carter's faith, but that never stopped the Left from supporting him. And I daresay, he's done more for humanitarian efforts since leaving office than most of us will do in our entire lives. To me, everytime Kerry said the G-word or quoted scripture, it seemed forced, as if he were playing "Bible Jeopardy!" To that end, I've been doing some listening and reading about the Democratic Sen.-elect from Colorado, Ken Salazar. I don't know much about the whole race, except that it was Salazar against Pete Coors, but Salazar seems articulate and sincere about his beliefs, yet wants to be a good public servant and a good Democrat (and won in a red state). Here's an interesting excerpt from the Denver Post: "Both candidates are Catholic, but Salazars support of abortion rights put him in conflict with the church. Both Denver Archbishop Charles Chaput and Colorado Springs Bishop Michael Sheridan said repeatedly that Catholics in good conscience should not support pro-abortion rights candidates. "Chris Gates, the Colorado Democratic Party chairman, said the Catholic result shows, You cant touch Ken Salazar. You cant doubt his faith, his faith is personal, it is lifelong, and efforts to try to make those hits on him, which happened early on, completely failed. " Deb ===== This I have learned: Because we can, we must try to change the world -- fully, wisely, restlessly. -- Rudy Nemser == Life is such a changing art. -- Dar Williams == __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Check out the new Yahoo! Front Page. www.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Nov 2004 19:28:24 -0700 From: "Donald Frick" Subject: RE: [RS] Election "Both candidates are Catholic, but Salazars support of abortion rights put him in conflict with the church. " I'm a registered republican Catholic in Colorado who voted for both Kerry and Salazar. When the Catholic church, specifically the Denver Archbishop, basically said you shouldn't be allowed to take communion if you vote for a candidate who supports abortion rights, I was deeply offended, and couldn't believe the level to which the Catholic church would put itself into the political foray. As I understand it, in Catholic bulletins across the country, the Church basically set forth who you could vote for and who you couldn't: Bush and Kerry, respectively. Never mind the fact that the Church ignored the fact that Bush supports the death penalty, and ignored completely the war in Iraq. Salazar is someone who has worked in politics for the benefit of the people of the State of Colorado for most of his life. The race should not have been as close as it was. Incidentally, I think you'll find in the next day or so that the race for president in Colorado was MUCH closer than the network numbers currently show. CNN shows a margin of a little over 100k votes, but the two percent missing (Boulder County), about 140k votes, is looking like it will go almost 70 percent to Kerry. I don't know what will happen in the next four years. But the thing that I am most afraid of now, and for the first time I truly am scared, is the possibility that in the next four years the separation of church and state will be eroded. It has already happened in eleven states. Any state constitutional amendment defining marriage as between a man and a woman is (1) against any concept of the separation of church and state as defined in the US Constitution; (2) absolutely discriminatory; and (3) based on fear and hate of homosexuals. Even OREGON amended their constitution to that effect!! Talking to someone who supported Bush - "where do we draw the line? Do we allow people to marry cows too if certain religions allow it?" "To me, everytime Kerry said the G-word or quoted scripture, it seemed forced, as if he were playing "Bible Jeopardy!" I would disagree - when Kerry gave his concession speech and said "God Bless America," for the first time I looked at it as though it was a prayer, as Kerry said. - -Don ------------------------------ End of shindell-list-digest V6 #246 ***********************************