From: owner-shindell-list-digest@smoe.org (shindell-list-digest) To: shindell-list-digest@smoe.org Subject: shindell-list-digest V6 #183 Reply-To: shindell-list@smoe.org Sender: owner-shindell-list-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-shindell-list-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk shindell-list-digest Friday, September 3 2004 Volume 06 : Number 183 Today's Subjects: ----------------- [RS] Che Guevara T-Shirt [Norman Johnson ] Re: [RS] Che Guevara T-Shirt [Peter Booth ] [RS] Last Fare and other thoughts... [Bobdog25nj@aol.com] Re: [RS] Last Fare and other thoughts... ["ptpowerlists@juno.com" Subject: [RS] Che Guevara T-Shirt Jason wrote: >> I am at a loss for figuring out what the Song Che Guevara T-Shirt means . At the end when the Cuban accented guy says do you recognize this picture, it doesn't make any sense to me as to why he is asking? Can anyone explain it? << The stowaway has a picture of his girlfriend wearing a Che Guevara T-shirt. The revolutionary Che Guevara is not viewed very favorably in the US, particularly in Dade County, Florida. Norman ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 3 Sep 2004 18:51:11 -0400 From: Peter Booth Subject: Re: [RS] Che Guevara T-Shirt I was thinking that it was less about who was on the shirt than it was about them having found his hiding place on the ship. Presumably when he was out on the deck he was caught and all his stuff - -- including her photo -- was left in the container where he had stowed away. My sense was that the content of the shirt was less important than Richard just using an object as a thread throughout the whole story. I feel like the last stanza is just about showing how low this man has been laid. He's caught, in Dade Cty, has no lawyer and a guy he doesn't know has got a piece of him -- the photo of his sweetheart. Peter On Friday, September 3, 2004, at 06:20 PM, Norman Johnson wrote: > Jason wrote: > > >>> I am at a loss for figuring out what the Song Che Guevara T-Shirt >>> means . > At the end when the Cuban accented guy says do you recognize this > picture, > it doesn't make any sense to me as to why he is asking? Can anyone > explain > it? << > > The stowaway has a picture of his girlfriend wearing a Che Guevara > T-shirt. The revolutionary Che Guevara is not viewed very favorably in > the US, particularly in Dade County, Florida. > > Norman ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 3 Sep 2004 19:22:01 EDT From: Bobdog25nj@aol.com Subject: [RS] Last Fare and other thoughts... OK. Hmmmm. Now I am asked to believe that Richard says that the first part of Last Fare does not occur on 9/11? Look Damn it! The first part of the song DEFINITELY occurs on the actual day of September 11th! I don't give a crap what Richard says; he may have written the song - but it's my song now! I don't have the lyrics in front of me - so this is from memory - but what is the line about the cruel rain about anyway? It's not about actual physical rain - you morons - it's about the horrible rain of debris that followed in the immediate wake of the collapse of the towers. Cement, wallboard, evaporated computers and desks and tables - and parts of human beings. Yes...September 11th 2001 in New York was an unusually beautiful day. Bright sunshine and just the first hint of the crispness of the coming fall. You can see that in the horrible video of the planes crashing into the towers. But the moment after the first plane hit the first tower, the good weather was gone. There was a huge plume of smoke and debris was raining down upon the whole surrounding blocks. This has always been my take on the "rain" of the first verse. I think the cabdriver finds a couple in New York City on that day. Maybe in midtown. Maybe in Brooklyn . Who knows where they have been earlier or what they have seen. They want to get the hell out of New York City. I was not in New York on September 11th, Thank God, but I was watching TV 20 miles away in northern New Jersey and - as I recall - I think I saw the second plane hit the second tower live as it happened. Like a zillion other people I watched the towers fall on live TV. My brother saw them fall with his own eyes from Newark. I think the song loses a lot of its power if the first verse is not set on the actual day of the disaster. I also think the song loses a lot of its power if the couple in the last part of the song, coming out of the church, are not the same couple from the first part of the song - and, damn it!, Richard says they are not - so he got that part wrong too. How can somebody so smart be so dumb? If the song were made into a movie ( or a video ) , I cannot help but believe that the couple with the new baby at the end would be the same couple from the beginning. Just makes for a better story, and a better flow. ( By the way, the "you morons" and various other comments are intended to add emphasis and humor - this list might actually be 100% moron free - unlike the nation I live in). - -------------------------------------------------------- On another note... Sharon G. raised an appropriate point when she mentioned that WFUV has been playing the hell out of Big Muddy. In fact, when I sat down to use the computer about 6pm on Friday, Dennis Elsis was playing Big Muddy when I turned on the radio. I did not mean to suggest that Vuelta hasn't been getting a lot of airplay in New York. I have also heard Mavis more than once. So the album is getting radio support from FUV anyway. I still think it is a good idea to call your local station and request they play something from the album anyway. I know this is the one thing that the artists themselves say is very helpful about the internet and internet fan lists. See ya....Bob Paterson ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 3 Sep 2004 23:34:09 GMT From: "ptpowerlists@juno.com" Subject: Re: [RS] Last Fare and other thoughts... Bob wrote: >>(By the way, the "you morons" and various other comments are intended to add emphasis and humor - this list might actually be 100% moron free - unlike the nation I live in).<< Hey, Bob... you'd better watch who you're NOT calling a moron!!! Pat ________________________________________________________________ Get your name as your email address. Includes spam protection, 1GB storage, no ads and more Only $1.99/ month - visit http://www.mysite.com/name today! ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 3 Sep 2004 19:35:58 -0400 From: Peter Booth Subject: Re: [RS] Last Fare and other thoughts... Hear hear! I agree with much of this analysis. I also think that it HAS to be the same couple because in the story as _I_ hear it, they go home on 9/11 and then to comfort one another the couple makes love, and nine months later, in the spring their child (Hope or Grace) is born and is named to commemorate the time when she was conceived. Also, at the beginning of the song he's holding her as if she might fall if he let go. That's gotta be ON 9/11, not later that week. I agree with this poster 100% I'm no moron! :-) On Friday, September 3, 2004, at 07:22 PM, Bobdog25nj@aol.com wrote: > OK. Hmmmm. Now I am asked to believe that Richard says that the first > part > of Last Fare does not occur on 9/11? Look Damn it! The first part of > the song > DEFINITELY occurs on the actual day of September 11th! I don't give a > crap > what Richard says; he may have written the song - but it's my song > now! > > I don't have the lyrics in front of me - so this is from memory - but > what > is the line about the cruel rain about anyway? It's not about actual > physical > rain - you morons - it's about the horrible rain of debris that > followed in > the immediate wake of the collapse of the towers. Cement, wallboard, > evaporated > computers and desks and tables - and parts of human beings. > > Yes...September 11th 2001 in New York was an unusually beautiful day. > Bright > sunshine and just the first hint of the crispness of the coming fall. > You > can see that in the horrible video of the planes crashing into the > towers. > > But the moment after the first plane hit the first tower, the good > weather > was gone. There was a huge plume of smoke and debris was raining down > upon the > whole surrounding blocks. This has always been my take on the "rain" > of the > first verse. > > I think the cabdriver finds a couple in New York City on that day. > Maybe in > midtown. Maybe in Brooklyn . Who knows where they have been earlier > or what > they have seen. They want to get the hell out of New York City. > > I was not in New York on September 11th, Thank God, but I was watching > TV 20 > miles away in northern New Jersey and - as I recall - I think I saw the > second plane hit the second tower live as it happened. Like a zillion > other > people I watched the towers fall on live TV. My brother saw them fall > with his own > eyes from Newark. > > I think the song loses a lot of its power if the first verse is not > set on > the actual day of the disaster. > > I also think the song loses a lot of its power if the couple in the > last > part of the song, coming out of the church, are not the same couple > from the > first part of the song - and, damn it!, Richard says they are not - so > he got > that part wrong too. How can somebody so smart be so dumb? > > If the song were made into a movie ( or a video ) , I cannot help but > believe that the couple with the new baby at the end would be the same > couple from > the beginning. Just makes for a better story, and a better flow. > > ( By the way, the "you morons" and various other comments are intended > to > add emphasis and humor - this list might actually be 100% moron free > - unlike > the nation I live in). > > -------------------------------------------------------- > > On another note... Sharon G. raised an appropriate point when she > mentioned > that WFUV has been playing the hell out of Big Muddy. In fact, when I > sat down > to use the computer about 6pm on Friday, Dennis Elsis was playing Big > Muddy > when I turned on the radio. > > I did not mean to suggest that Vuelta hasn't been getting a lot of > airplay > in New York. > I have also heard Mavis more than once. > > So the album is getting radio support from FUV anyway. I still think > it is a > good idea to call > your local station and request they play something from the album > anyway. I > know this is the one thing that the artists themselves say is very > helpful > about the internet and internet fan lists. > > See ya....Bob Paterson ------------------------------ End of shindell-list-digest V6 #183 ***********************************