From: owner-shindell-list-digest@smoe.org (shindell-list-digest) To: shindell-list-digest@smoe.org Subject: shindell-list-digest V6 #182 Reply-To: shindell-list@smoe.org Sender: owner-shindell-list-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-shindell-list-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk shindell-list-digest Friday, September 3 2004 Volume 06 : Number 182 Today's Subjects: ----------------- [RS] the heavens give... [Christy Thomas ] [RS] ramblin' [Jim Colbert ] [RS] blue skies [Jim Colbert ] [RS] Che Guevara T-Shirt T-shirt song ["Jason Stanley" Subject: [RS] the heavens give... > Ron G Wrote: > that non-rhyme is one > of the things that's going on my "what was he > thinking?" list. I didn't like > it when I first heard it, and I don't like it now. > The non-rhyme, that is, > not the song itself, which is probably my all-time > favorite song of Richard's. Well, Ron, I think you are just more explicit with your response to the non-rhyme than I was. I did keep saying to myself, "What was he thinking? The song is so beautiful and the flow of the song REALLY interrupted by that." But then I tried to come up with what else he could have said there..."heavens give way" would rhyme...and express the fact that it began to rain...but that doesn't really express the re-emergence of hope and grace. That sentiment may not be what he intended at all, but is what that particular choice of words "says" to me. The non-rhyme there really brings your attention to that phrase, no? Not unlike the way the horrible events of 9-11 jolted us all from our well-known ballets. (Yes, I have been known to over-analyze a bit! :) And I agree it is WAY up there on my list of all-time favorite RS songs - which is quite a long list. The Island, however, is not on that list. I see from this discussion group that others LOVE it...I don't hate it, and am sure it will grow on me with more listens - typically Richard's songs kinda GRAB me from the get go. I am, however, rather partial to So Says the Whipporwill...and see that few others are mentioning it on the list - go figure. And in spite of the fact that I am a "lyrics lover" I love the Spanish song. Of course, having read the translation I know what it is saying now - but the song - and Richard's voice on the song - are really lovely and I often find myself hitting repeat for that one. I am glad "Big Muddy" was included...and it is rather cathartic to sing along with Richard...especially the "Damn FOOL" part! OK...that is MORE than enough from this lurker. Happy extended weekend to the US listers...c _______________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Win 1 of 4,000 free domain names from Yahoo! Enter now. http://promotions.yahoo.com/goldrush ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 3 Sep 2004 08:56:00 -0400 From: Jim Colbert Subject: [RS] ramblin' > Speaking that, if Richard were going to release a Best of including 20 > tracks, what would everyone put on it....mine: Well, one thing's for sure, mine would have to include his take on Sonora's Death Row. If anyone does any more of their retrospective or best of lists, note if you mean studio or live cuts on the selections if you have one that's appeared as both. Fishing, for example, is one I think has always been better live. And Reunion Hill moves me more in the slower, er, not-quite live version on Courier. > > > I think Richard's version of "Big Muddy" really rocks .... and I > think this > is another point where we all have our own take on things...I think > the CD is > great but there are tracks I anticipate skipping in the near > future...but > "Big Muddy" will never be one of them. The sentiment is true to the > times and > I have to believe that Richard felt deeply about it to include it... Its inclusion is a choice that raised an eyebrow on my end; it felt to me more like a cut that would have shown up on a Spring or Scenes from... promo or bonus disc. Or at least been at the tail end of the disc- but they may have wanted it more up front for it's punchier nature. So far, big muddy and last are the two tracks I'm most prone to hit repeat on. (The sad thing is, I want to say that being an election year, it might be a short-shelf life type of song... but it seems to keep being timely through the years! Pete Seeger is such an old-school folk institution- you think of this older guy playing a banjo and fighting for all these causes- that it's sometimes easy to overlook that the man has written some truly fine songs in his time.) - -jim ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 3 Sep 2004 09:34:33 -0400 From: Jim Colbert Subject: [RS] blue skies > The first scene is Last Fare occurs sometime after 9-11 but not on > 9-11 (which was- oddly, a beautiful sunny day). In a discarded song called Praying for Grace, Garnet Rogers used the phrase "a blue and perfect sky" to describe that day. That description always struck me as right on the money. One thing I like about last fare lyrically, besides it's ambiguity which keeps it from being too preachy or heavy-handed- (great comparisons for contrast, Ron, and I'll withold further opinions there) is to me, it's something Richard does really well, in taking a pretty big event (say, 9/11 or WW2 or the civil war) and distilling it and presenting it from the perspective of how those events have affected the life of mostly just one individual. Jim ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 3 Sep 2004 08:58:57 -0500 From: "Jason Stanley" Subject: [RS] Che Guevara T-Shirt T-shirt song I am at a loss for figuring out what the Song Che Guevara T-Shirt means . At the end when the Cuban accented guy says do you recognize this picture, it doesn't make any sense to me as to why he is asking? Can anyone explain it? My favorites by the way are 1. Waist deep in the big Muddy. 2. Fenario 3. Hazel's House- It reminds me of Thanksgiving when I was little at my aunt and uncles house in the country in Bastrop Texas. 4. Last fare of the day. 5. Che Guevara T-shirt. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 3 Sep 2004 14:52:38 GMT From: "ptpowerlists@juno.com" Subject: [RS] Re: the heavens give... Ron G Wrote: >>that non-rhyme is one of the things that's going on my "what was he thinking?" list. I didn't like it when I first heard it, and I don't like it now. The non-rhyme, that is, not the song itself, which is probably my all-time favorite song of Richard's.<< and Christy wrote: >>I did keep saying to myself, "What was he thinking? The song is so beautiful and the flow of the song REALLY interrupted by that." But then I tried to come up with what else he could have said there..."heavens give way" would rhyme...and express the fact that it began to rain...but that doesn't really express the re-emergence of hope and grace. That sentiment may not be what he intended at all, but is what that particular choice of words "says" to me. The non-rhyme there really brings your attention to that phrase, no? Not unlike the way the horrible events of 9-11 jolted us all from our well-known ballets.<< Christy has done some fine overanalyzing here... I suppose that hearing this non-rhyme for the first time was rather jarring, but Richard has often *not* rhymed lines, so it didn't bother me too much. If you focus in on "the heavens give", you can see (hear?) a couple of things going on -- maybe three: 1. The heavens burst forth with rain 2. The baby ("hope *and* grace) is a gift from the heavens 3. The heavens bursting with rain is being remembered in stark contrast to "the heavens give" of September 11. Pat ________________________________________________________________ Get your name as your email address. Includes spam protection, 1GB storage, no ads and more Only $1.99/ month - visit http://www.mysite.com/name today! ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 03 Sep 2004 11:38:18 -0400 From: Rongrittz@aol.com Subject: Re: [RS] Re: the heavens give... >> I suppose that hearing this non-rhyme for the first time was rather jarring, but Richard has often *not* rhymed lines, so it didn't bother me too much. << For me it wasn't so much the non-rhyme itself, but rather that he HAD rhymed the couplet the first two times, and it's THAT which made it so jarring during the last verse. If he'd non-rhymed it the first two times, I doubt we'd even be discussing this. RG ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 03 Sep 2004 18:21:07 +0200 From: "Ronnie de Champs" Subject: [RS] Vuelta has arrived in Europe! Today Richard's new cd arrived by mail and is already in the cd-player. Ronnie (back to listening) _________________________________________________________________ Play online games with your friends with MSN Messenger http://messenger.msn.nl/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 03 Sep 2004 12:22:22 -0400 From: rfoxwell@wso.williams.edu Subject: Re: [RS] Re: the heavens give... > Ron G Wrote: > > >>that non-rhyme is one of the things that's going on my "what was he > thinking?" list. I didn't like it when I first heard it, and I don't like it > now. The non-rhyme, that is, not the song itself, which is probably my > all-time favorite song of Richard's.<< I'm with you all the way, Ron. It was jarring to me upon the first listening, and it continues to be jarring to me. I really do think that Richard is doing something with it, though; his writing is so polished, with every word chosen carefully, that I can't believe that he used the lyric unaware of its effect on the listener (or that he simply couldn't find a decent rhyme). I like Christy's and Pat's analyses, and I think they work well as far as storytelling goes...but for the first time with Richard's music, I don't know if that compensates for the musical effect. To my ear, at least. I love the song with a passion, it is simply gorgeous, but that bit still sticks out unpleasantly. I actually have a fourth item to add to Pat's list of symbolic associations present in the uncomfortable non-rhyme. > If you focus in on "the heavens give", you can see (hear?) a couple of things > going on -- maybe three: > 1. The heavens burst forth with rain > 2. The baby ("hope *and* grace) is a gift from the heavens > 3. The heavens bursting with rain is being remembered in stark contrast to > "the heavens give" of September 11. 4. By pairing "and then it starts, the heavens give / I know it well, this old ballet", the narrator is saying that the New York downpours are also something that he knows well, are also part of the "old ballet". This can be seen as a commentary on the renewal of life and habit after tragedy, a "life goes on" or "cosmic wheel" kind of remark; the cabby is reflecting on life restored to normal, with the progress of the seasons, the spring droughts, and the rain, etc., all being part of the grand ballet that he knows so well. I tend to picture the end of a movie, with the camera pulling back from the main characters to encompass the nearby extras, then the street, then the city and sky, reminding the viewers that ultimately the events portrayed are part of something greater...an "old ballet" of life. Also, by continuing on with the same "finding the flow, minding the sway", the cabby ties the downpour to the same activity of negotiating New York's streets, with the rain acting as yet another part of the "flow" and "sway" that make up his daily life. (The rain in the streets/gutters literally forms a flow, too, come to think of it, one that very much needs to be minded by drivers.) By the way, Ron, I'd love to read your thoughts on the record. It is very easy to gush about something you love, but it's much more difficult to criticize it and look at its faults with an honest eye; I've tried to do that with my observations of the songs, and I'd love to see what you come up with. - --Chris ------------------------------ End of shindell-list-digest V6 #182 ***********************************