From: owner-shindell-list-digest@smoe.org (shindell-list-digest) To: shindell-list-digest@smoe.org Subject: shindell-list-digest V4 #242 Reply-To: shindell-list@smoe.org Sender: owner-shindell-list-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-shindell-list-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk shindell-list-digest Sunday, August 25 2002 Volume 04 : Number 242 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: [RS] courier/Christian Imagery ["Shelley DePaul" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 24 Aug 2002 13:37:10 -0400 From: "Shelley DePaul" Subject: Re: [RS] courier/Christian Imagery There is a critical phase - about going out to a "world made right" > which is a typically Christian phrase about how the death of Jesus > saved the world from its sins. > It never occurs to me that Richard uses Jesus or Magdalen or any other biblical character in any "Christian" context whatsoever. Spiritual is one thing - Christian is another entirely. I see them as characters no different than Nora or May or the woman in Reunion Hill, etc., All of whom, to me, are no less divine. In 'Love Before You Go', it seems to me the emphasis is on how Jesus' life - not death (his death was a tragedy) is what brought (will bring) salvation -- His example of Love. (esp. in the midst of a culture dominated by the Law - Jesus was Jewish. Didn't know a single Christian. In fact, I have some very enlightened Jewish friends that consider him an invaluable Jewish theologian) Richard's use of the feminine serves to create a universal Jesus which could be any of us for that matter. Doesn't God call on all of us. Aren't we all hungry, weak; tempted by worldly things; free to choose or not choose the path that Jesus chose. Don't we all feel forsaken at some point in our lives; wonder whether God is there; feel alone, most especially when we realize others in our religion, family, society, etc are not 'reading God quite right', as Jesus did.. The song speaks of not only Jesus' love, but God's love, pity and sacrifice. ("How I wish that you could stay...") as well as the intimacy of the relationship ("Come and sit here by my side...") which serves to comfort us and renew our faith and love in the nearness of God. I'd be glad to bring friends of any religion to hear this song. Or any of Richard's songs, which to me all rise from the same spring of eternal truth - not an unattainable higher truth, but one that shows over and over again just how the human condition fits into the whole scheme of things. O. K. That's my rant for the next six months. Love, Shelley "Know Thyself" - J. Christ - ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Alvord" To: Sent: Saturday, August 24, 2002 3:32 AM Subject: Re: [RS] courier > On Thu, 22 Aug 2002 23:57:36 -0700, Lisa Davis & Family > wrote: > > >Rabbi Lea Gavrieli wrote: > > > >> >Hi All, > >> > >> as a clergy person, I'd have to say that I feel a strong sense of > > > >This thread has come up before, but how do you as a rabbi feel about all the > >Christian imagery in Richard's songs? I know he always SAYS it is simply a > >shorthand, or a source of great stories, and that the spirituality being > >expressed, or addressed, is much broader, not exclusive, or whatever, but there > >is just an awful lot that ties in with New Testament. As someone who has > >precious little "religious" education behind me, sometimes I feel the way I did > >in college trying to fathom Milton, I just don't "get" various references but > >sense they are there. At the same time, sometimes when I've given Richard's CDs > >to Jewish friends I've felt awkward by the quantity of references, on the > >supposition that they would "get the wrong idea" that these are somehow > >"christian" songs. > > > >Lisa Davis > > I've often wondered about the Christian imagery in Beyond the Iron > Gate. It feels to me like Jesus after the cruxifiction, laid to rest > in the tomb, which was protected by iron gates. After he is resurected > and goes out, he seems some people who were waiting for him. > > There is a critical phase - about going out to a "world made right" > which is a typically Christian phrase about how the death of Jesus > saved the world from its sins. > > john alvord ------------------------------ End of shindell-list-digest V4 #242 ***********************************