From: owner-shindell-list-digest@smoe.org (shindell-list-digest) To: shindell-list-digest@smoe.org Subject: shindell-list-digest V4 #62 Reply-To: shindell-list@smoe.org Sender: owner-shindell-list-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-shindell-list-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk shindell-list-digest Monday, February 18 2002 Volume 04 : Number 062 Today's Subjects: ----------------- [none] [owner-shindell-list-digest@smoe.org] [RS] Re: interactive [Tom Neff ] [RS] Re: sounds from the crowd [Rongrittz@aol.com] RE: [RS] Re: sounds from the crowd ["alan.teather" ] Re: [RS] Re: sounds from the crowd [Scribbling Woman From: "Sally Green" > To: > Subject: Fw: Leaving the list > Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 09:07:41 -0500 > MIME-Version: 1.0 > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 > Message-ID: > X-OriginalArrivalTime: 18 Feb 2002 14:07:21.0299 (UTC) > FILETIME=[94FF1230:01C1B885] > > Hey folks - just a reminder that if you want to leave the list at any time, > you can unsubscribe yourself by sending a message to: > > majordomo@smoe.org > > with the words > > unsubscribe shindell-list (or unsubscribe shindell-list-digest) > > in the body of the message. If you've saved the list information (the > fabulous welcome message that RonG wrote which is chock-full of useful > information), these instructions are included. If you did not save the list > information, you can get another copy by e-mailing: > > majordomo@smoe.org > > that says > > info shindell-list > > in the body of the message. > > --Sally > > >Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2002 20:36:21 EST > >From: ATST4477@aol.com > >Subject: [RS] Please remove my name > > > >Please Remove my name from this list. Thanks.. > >Andy T Sender: owner-shindell-list-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: shindell-list@smoe.org ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 09:31:33 -0500 From: Tom Neff Subject: [RS] Re: interactive Sharon wrote: > when did musical events become interactive, i guess the VCR and DVD > brought films and music into our livingrooms and some people believe they > can behave that way in theaters That's one way to look at it... another way might be that when you have widely-read "fan" communities on the Internet where people obsess on every little personal detail of the performers, and shadow them show after show, and bring them bialys and corn husk dollys, and debate all these kinds of questions at length online, at some point (and for some people) tomorrow night's concert just becomes an extension of last night's message thread. When you got sixteen superfans all competing for the perfect answer to what the performer's Dad's thesis was about, heck, why not bring the performer in on this? :) Of course, the real answer to the question 'when did musical events become interactive' is around 6,000 BC! The more interesting question for modern media culture is, when did they STOP being interactive... ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 09:47:48 EST From: Rongrittz@aol.com Subject: [RS] Re: sounds from the crowd >> when did musical events become interactive << Tom took many of the words right out of my mouth, but I was thinking pretty much along those same lines. Perhaps it started when people started thinking that familiarity with the artist went beyond simply going to the show . . . listening to the music . . . then leaving, satisfied with the knowledge that they'd had a good time and gotten their money's worth. When discussion lists such as this one became breeding grounds for dissection of the artist's personal life. When their sexuality, their spirituality, their marriages, where they choose to live, even gossip about who certain songs may or may not have been written became fair game. When post-show meet 'n greets became not just a rare treat, but an expected ritual for the artist to be showered with baked goods, cigars, scrapbooks and other gifts. When people started believing that the artist is obligated to give something more than just The Music. I'm not sure exactly when it became acceptable to cross that line, but this discussion is sure sounding pretty ironic to me. Something about pots who live in glass houses shouldn't throw black kettles or something like that. RG ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 14:53:25 -0000 From: "alan.teather" Subject: RE: [RS] Re: sounds from the crowd This artist adulation thing must be an American thing right? I mean over here in the UK the artists are happy to talk after the shows and sign autographs, cd's etc but that's where it all ends.......unless you know different? TC Alan - -----Original Message----- From: owner-shindell-list-digest@smoe.org [mailto:owner-shindell-list-digest@smoe.org]On Behalf Of Rongrittz@aol.com Sent: 18 February 2002 14:48 To: shindell-list@smoe.org Subject: [RS] Re: sounds from the crowd >> when did musical events become interactive << Tom took many of the words right out of my mouth, but I was thinking pretty much along those same lines. Perhaps it started when people started thinking that familiarity with the artist went beyond simply going to the show . . . listening to the music . . . then leaving, satisfied with the knowledge that they'd had a good time and gotten their money's worth. When discussion lists such as this one became breeding grounds for dissection of the artist's personal life. When their sexuality, their spirituality, their marriages, where they choose to live, even gossip about who certain songs may or may not have been written became fair game. When post-show meet 'n greets became not just a rare treat, but an expected ritual for the artist to be showered with baked goods, cigars, scrapbooks and other gifts. When people started believing that the artist is obligated to give something more than just The Music. I'm not sure exactly when it became acceptable to cross that line, but this discussion is sure sounding pretty ironic to me. Something about pots who live in glass houses shouldn't throw black kettles or something like that. RG ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 09:54:23 -0500 From: "Sally Green" Subject: [RS] Sigh Seems like I will never get the hang of these commands. (I'm referring to the previous post that came from owner-shindell-list@smoe.org, which I was trying to make appear like a normal post.) Oh well, perhaps random inept admin commands is part of the charm of the Richard list (I hope!). Tom Neff wrote: >That's one way to look at it... another way might be that when you have >widely-read "fan" communities on the Internet where people obsess on every That's another way to look at it. Of course, we don't know if the woman at the show in question is on the internet, on any mailing lists, on the Shindell list, etc. For all we know, she has never touched a keyboard in her life and the question came all from her own mind. I also liked what Lisa Davis said about sometimes things come out of our mouths and we have no idea. Lisa, I can relate! When I think back to some of the stupid things I've said and done at concerts over the years, I occasionally cringe. Richard has always been very nice, although in 1997 I think he was a little startled when I held up a sign at a concert that said "WE YOU, RICHARD!" written in bright red on a white posterboard. It really wasn't that kind of crowd (this was at the Ark in Ann Arbor, Michigan). Heh! So he finally said "Awwww, that's sweet." It sounded slightly sarcastic, but not in a mean way. Hey, this would be a fun thread, wouldn't it? What blockheaded embarrassing things have you said or done at folk-type concerts? I respect that some people may not like or relate to Dar's stage presence. I happen to love it. Part of the reason is because she is very very nice and even when people say dumb things (yes, me) she has a way of both not making one feel stupid, and simultaneously ending the inappropriate conversation and keeping her boundaries intact. I really have appreciated that, both because it spared my feelings in earlier years when I was young and foolish, and because as I grow up, I realize that that's a quality that I want to have and emulate. One time at another Richard concert in Ann Arbor, a woman requested "By Now" (this was a poorly attended concert, about 40 people or so, pre Cry Cry Cry) and RS said "Why would you want to hear that one? It's so dark and nasty." And she said "I love it! It's so good. All of your CDs are just top of the pile!" I've never forgotten that for some reason. Anyway, he played it. I guess the reason I relate that story is because at the time it seemed to me that she was talking just a bit too much for being an audience member, but it ended up okay. I was worried, though, that she would keep talking and it would become awkward for him. - --Sally sallyagreen@hotmail.com http://members.tripod.com/sagreen ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 07:39:32 -0800 (PST) From: Scribbling Woman Subject: Re: [RS] Re: sounds from the crowd Rongrittz@aol.com wrote: ...many points well-taken, including the following: When people started believing that the artist is obligated to give something more than just The Music. Regarding folk artists in general, by its very nature, "folk" music has a personal connection from the artist to the audience that engenders a perceived intimacy that leads to the issues debated. Regarding Dar, for example, since I am one of those who dared to say something less-than-worshipping, I would like to clarify. And I am not being cutesy or glib: it is Dar's stage performance that I love(d), I love(d) about her. I can easily listen to The Music on the cd's. On that one occasion, however, the music was just as disappointing as the stage performance. And that's ok. We all have bad days. Except for now I don't know whether that's the way she performs now, that it's the way she's always been and I have just become an old geezer who doesn't appreciate frivolity like I used to, or that it was a bad night. I could be more specific, but I truly do not want to pan someone whose music AND stage presence have (in the past) resonated with me. My apologies to Dar, her fans, her family, her mechanic, anyone who might have been offended by my mention of disappointment. Ron's comments about online ruminations about sexuality, marriage, spirituality are now gone from my screen. But he accurately boomeranged the question about rude and intrusive personal questions not coming just from overly-vocal audience members, but from lists such as these as well. And, since I introduced myself with a question regarding the spiritual/God reference in "You Stay Here," I wanted to clarify that my question was, "Has RICHARD said anything about this song?" I didn't mean to suggest that anyone should ask him to (no, that wasn't me at the show asking him to elaborate), and I didn't mean for anyone to start speculating. I meant just what I asked, "Has RICHARD said anything?" because that's something that artists sometimes *choose* to do in their live perfomances. I guess my bottom line here is that this type of music resonates because of its personal nature. The audience appreciates the connection with the artist who has found a way to reach them. This does not mean that it's ok to call out personal questions to performers (I am not even fond of calling out requests unless the performer gives the cue that it's ok) or even to ask personal questions in meet-and-greets. But, lists such as these are great places to read about what that person shared of his or her own free will. For the record, that's all I was asking for. Thanks for listening. Yahoo! Sports - Coverage of the 2002 Olympic Games ------------------------------ End of shindell-list-digest V4 #62 **********************************