From: owner-shindell-list-digest@smoe.org (shindell-list-digest) To: shindell-list-digest@smoe.org Subject: shindell-list-digest V3 #449 Reply-To: shindell-list@smoe.org Sender: owner-shindell-list-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-shindell-list-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk shindell-list-digest Sunday, December 9 2001 Volume 03 : Number 449 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: [RS] Memory of You [Vanessa Christina Wills ] [RS] Before You Go [Phueber@aol.com] Re: [RS] Memory of You [Vanessa Christina Wills ] Re: [RS] More on Courier [Loracevoll@aol.com] Re: [RS] COURIER critique [Loracevoll@aol.com] Re: [RS] COURIER critique ["Kristen Myshrall" ] [RS] Re: Misc. Courier thoughts . . . [Rongrittz@aol.com] [RS] Memory of Gertrude [Vanessa Christina Wills ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 08 Dec 2001 21:40:32 -0500 From: Vanessa Christina Wills Subject: Re: [RS] Memory of You you know, I don't know why I used all those gendered pronouns--I don't have any really fixed ideas about who's a he and who's a she. Vanessa Christina Wills wrote: > Oh my goodness. Kristen, Gene, and others... > I can't even believe my eyes. Oh, you crazy kids. > Let me clarify. > "Memory of You" is absolutely, hands-down, one of my top three most > favoritest Richard Shindell songs. And let me tell you, it's a good > thing Memory of You _is_ on the CD, because there would have been heck > to pay if it hadn't been. Lots and lots of heck. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 8 Dec 2001 21:47:05 EST From: Phueber@aol.com Subject: [RS] Before You Go I ordered Wonderland at the same time as Courier and received them in the mail yesterday. As much as I like the live tunes (You Stay Here, Reunion Hill, Fishing and Nora are early favorites), I am absolutely enchanted by Before You Go. What a beautiful, haunting song! I went to bed last night with the song ingrained in my head. When I woke up this morning, it was still there. Definitely a keeper. Paul ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 08 Dec 2001 22:06:32 -0500 From: Vanessa Christina Wills Subject: Re: [RS] Memory of You OK--one more thing. I probably shouldn't have stated "Interpretation Two" so literally--it's probably something like "What did you mean by that thing you wrote down, anyway?" - --V Vanessa Christina Wills wrote: > For example, I love the line: "Why did you leave your will so vague?" > Interpretation One: Why didn't you make it clearer what you wanted? > Interpretation Two: Why weren't you more precise in writing that legal > document which we call a 'will'? ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 8 Dec 2001 23:34:07 EST From: Loracevoll@aol.com Subject: Re: [RS] More on Courier In a message dated 12/08/2001 4:36:28 PM Eastern Standard Time, ptpower@juno.com writes: > Speaking of tuning . . . how can this CD even be called a LIVE Shindell > record without the tuning???!!??? Pat, I had the exact same smart *ss thought. It's just like a RS show -- without all the tuning. ;-) ............Carol The future belongs to those who believe in the beauty of their dreams. ~~ Eleanor Roosevelt ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 8 Dec 2001 23:34:05 EST From: Loracevoll@aol.com Subject: Re: [RS] COURIER critique In a message dated 12/08/2001 4:24:11 PM Eastern Standard Time, yhmgt@sover.net writes: > I would disagree with it sounding different, myself. I think that's > only due to the fact that you _know_ it was recorded seperately. I have to be honest and say that I wouldn't have known it was recorded separately if I hadn't been told. (I don't scour the liner notes like some other listers.... ;-) I like the way it sounds. It's very clear and pure in that production. In fact I like it better than on the "Reunion Hill" CD. But like Ron say earlier, that's why they got chocolate and vanilla. We don't all like the same thing... > So funny - my girlfriend also loves the album and dislikes "Memory of You", > and I _love_ it (in fact, we had one version of the album that _started_ > with "Memory of You." Glad _that_ didn't make the cut!). I've always th > ought > of it as one of the 'neglected gems' of RS's catalog! > See, *I* like "Memory of You". Perhaps it's because it's one of the first songs I ever hear RS do live at show down here -- or maybe because he explained that he wrote it as Gertrude's ghost speaking to Hamlet, Sr. I guess that just appeals to my English Major side....... ............Carol The future belongs to those who believe in the beauty of their dreams. ~~ Eleanor Roosevelt ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 8 Dec 2001 22:46:10 -0600 From: "Kristen Myshrall" Subject: Re: [RS] COURIER critique or maybe because he explained that he wrote it as Gertrude's ghost speaking to Hamlet, Sr. I guess that just appeals to my English Major side....... ............Carol >>>>>>>> Well then....now I am completely confused....i had the whole song wrong.... Dammit...someone needs to publish a book of what RS was thinking when he was writing each song, then I wouldn't have this problem :) So i think I've listen to MOY about 30 times tonight trying to figure it out, was all proud thinking I had an explaination (which in turn explained why i didnt like the song) and I sign on and find this....hmmm.....back to the drawing board---or should i say--back to the cd player..... i never did like English... kristen www.angelfire.com/folk/lucykaplansky .Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 08 Dec 2001 23:56:12 -0500 From: Jeff Gilson Subject: Re: [RS] More on Courier Carol wrote: >I had the exact same smart *ss thought. It's just like a RS show -- without >all the tuning. ;-) It's like that old Heinz Gravy commercial. "Tastes just like homemade, without the lumps." Nevermind that the lumps are my favorite part of the gravy... jeff. - -- I'm sitting here in Dallas, a dive in Texas with an ache like a forearm for the spoon I am peeling back the labels I'm spinning empty bottles on the bar lonely litters the room -- Beth Amsel - -- writing by osmosis http://www.onefreeradical.com/osmosis/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 9 Dec 2001 00:24:37 EST From: Rongrittz@aol.com Subject: [RS] Re: Misc. Courier thoughts . . . << I don't know if this has been discussed, if so, I'm sorry, but is the list on the back of the cd accurate? I was expecting #4 to be "Kenworth" but it's "Willin"! That was a surprise! >> Yeah, Charlie had mentioned a few weeks ago that there'd been an accidental flopping of the songs on the first printing of the liner notes -- all 20,000 of the retail copies, actually -- but that it would be fixed next time around. Along with, I'm guessing, the two typos in the lyrics. ;-) RG ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 09 Dec 2001 02:20:53 -0500 From: Vanessa Christina Wills Subject: [RS] Memory of Gertrude On the subject of the whole Gertrude/Hamlet thing; here's my take on that. I don't think you have to feel compelled to take it into account when analyzing the lyrics (not that anyone's said that you do). It is, IMO, the sort of information you can choose to either take or leave. It might guide you in building up an interesting understanding of the song, or it might just limit you to one reading when the lyrics and the delivery and the music could coherently support many more. As far as I can tell, there's a particular device Richard uses when he wants you to rigidly identify the narrator of a song with a specific historical figure or literary character or made-up character, what-have-you. Namely, he throws in a line like "My name is Mary Magdalene," or "I am the courier," or "My name is William Taylor," or "My name is Eliza," or "I am still your abuelita." And since he does that so, so often, I think it's important to notice when he doesn't do it. And of course, in "Memory of You," he says almost nothing about the narrator except that he/she is being haunted by some weird ghost-thing, and depicts some moods of the narrator. Personally, I prefer to think of Memory of You without using the Gertrude/Hamlet, Sr. tale to inform my understanding of the song. And then from time to time, go back and compare my thoughts on the attitudes of the ghost and the speaker and what's happening in the song to the events in _Hamlet_, just to see what's different in some interesting way, or where my thoughts about the MOY narrator would probably transfer easily to Gertrude. And so on. But there are probably as many theories of song interpretation (and particular, understanding Richard's songs) as there are members on this list. - --V Kristen Myshrall wrote: >or maybe because he >explained that he wrote it as Gertrude's ghost speaking to Hamlet, Sr. I >guess that just appeals to my English Major side....... > >............Carol > > >Well then....now I am completely confused....i had the whole song wrong.... >Dammit...someone needs to publish a book of what RS was thinking when he was >writing each song, then I wouldn't have this problem :) >So i think I've listen to MOY about 30 times tonight trying to figure it out, >was all proud thinking I had an explaination (which in turn explained why i >didnt like the song) and I sign on and find this....hmmm.....back to the >drawing board---or should i say--back to the cd player..... > >i never did like English... >kristen >www.angelfire.com/folk/lucykaplansky > >.Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com > - -- "I am a citizen of the moment. I have built my white picket fence around the now." -The Tick ------------------------------ End of shindell-list-digest V3 #449 ***********************************