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Subject: shindell-list-digest V3 #446
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shindell-list-digest    Saturday, December 8 2001    Volume 03 : Number 446



                               Today's Subjects:
                               -----------------
  Re: [RS] Misc. Courier thoughts . . .  [patrick t power <ptpower@juno.com>]
  Re: [RS] Misc. Courier thoughts . . .                  [Loracevoll@aol.com]
  Re: [RS] Misc. Courier thoughts . . .                   [Rongrittz@aol.com]
  Re: [RS] Misc. Courier thoughts . . .  ["Kristen Myshrall" <ilovelucykapla]
  [RS] More on Courier                   ["Gene Frey" <gf212121@hotmail.com>]
  [RS] COURIER critique                    [Charlie Hunter <yhmgt@sover.net>]
  Re: [RS] More on Courier               [patrick t power <ptpower@juno.com>]

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sat, 8 Dec 2001 13:42:07 -0500
From: patrick t power <ptpower@juno.com>
Subject: Re: [RS] Misc. Courier thoughts . . .

RonG stated:

<<after giving it some thought, I really think that including "Sandy"
instead of "Sonora's Death Row" was a lousy idea.>>

Then added:

<<I guess I can understand, though, from a marketing standpoint, how
having a Bruce Springsteen song on the disc might be a good thing.>>

That was actually my guess as I listened to the CD yesterday for the
first time -- there aren't too many people (if any) that have covered
that song (or for that matter would do it the justice that Richard did),
so it may very well draw some attention from DJs who might not otherwise
give "this Richard Shindell fellow" a second thought. That the
performance was basically a sincere attempt at covering a really good
song on an ad lib basis, however, I don't have any problem with it being
on the CD. I would have *much* preferred "Sonora's Death Row" to "Willin'
", however. I don't find the latter to be all that inspiring a
performance (not that it's *bad*!), or the song all that interesting,
depite my affection for Lowell George's music.

Pat
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Date: Sat, 8 Dec 2001 14:17:46 EST
From: Loracevoll@aol.com
Subject: Re: [RS] Misc. Courier thoughts . . .

In a message dated 12/08/2001 1:24:30 PM Eastern Standard Time, 
Rongrittz@aol.com writes:


> Other things, while I'm on a roll . . . after giving it some thought, I 
> really think that including "Sandy" instead of "Sonora's Death Row" was a 
> lousy idea.  

As much as it pains me to say it, Ron's right.  ;-)

Sonora is the better cover.  And it DOES sound more like a Richard song than 
Sandy.........

............Carol

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 8 Dec 2001 15:26:04 EST
From: Rongrittz@aol.com
Subject: Re: [RS] Misc. Courier thoughts . . .

Regarding "Sandy," Pat writes . . .

<<  there aren't too many people (if any) that have covered that song (or for 
that matter would do it the justice that Richard did) >>

Actually, the Hollies, of all people, covered the song.  It's on "Another 
Night," plus more than one of their greatest hits collections.  But, to your 
point, they don't do it the justice that RS does.  I still prefer "Sonora" 
though.

RG

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 8 Dec 2001 14:37:17 -0600
From: "Kristen Myshrall" <ilovelucykaplansky@msn.com>
Subject: Re: [RS] Misc. Courier thoughts . . .

 I'm with ya on this one....Memory of You is my least favorite RS song...i
just can't stand it and it's the only thing keeping Courier off the "perfect"
album list. I have to run to skip it....it creeps me out and I can't quite
figure out why :)

<<<<<<<
 And boy, I wish there was a way for "Wisteria" to have made the main disc,
too.  There are already SIX songs from "Sparrows Point" on the disc (more
than half the disc), so I certainly would have preferred "Wisteria" to, say,
"Memory of You."
>>>>>>>

Kristen
www.angelfire.com/folk/lucykaplansky

.Get more from the Web.  FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 08 Dec 2001 16:20:42 -0500
From: "Gene Frey" <gf212121@hotmail.com>
Subject: [RS] More on Courier

Hey you guys,

My two cents:

>And to me, with "Sonora" being a pretty regular inclusion in Richard's sets 
>.. . as well as being a more "Shindellian" song . . . I think it should 
>have made the main CD, with "Sandy" relegated to the EP. <<

Which is probably the reason it did make the main disc. I have noticed a 
trend on a lot of recent live discs, where artists cover songs that one 
might never associate with them (Natalie Merchant doing 'Space Oddity,' 
Alanis Morissette covering 'King of Pain,') and I like it. I am a cover song 
junkie, and I think that this is a lot of fun, especially having been there 
the night he did it. The fact that he did pull this particular song out of 
his hat, of the thousands of songs he could have covered, is Shindellian 
enough for me. I do agree with Pat, though - I would have taken 'Sonora' 
over 'Willin.'

Besides, if we go back a few months, I seem to remember most of the people 
on this list calling loudly for 'Sandy' to be included.

>>And boy, I wish there was a way for "Wisteria" to have made the main disc, 
>>too.  There are already SIX songs from "Sparrows Point" on the disc (more 
>>than half the disc), so I certainly would have preferred "Wisteria" to, 
>>say, "Memory of You." <<

I would have preferred three minutes of tuning to 'Memory of You,' but 
that's just me. And Kristen, I guess. It was clearly stated that this CD 
would reflect Richard's earlier work, but I never did like this one.

>>Now for my last minor gripe . . . what's with the inclusion of a studio 
>>recording of "Reunion Hill?"  The liner notes make it clear that it's not 
>>from any of the live shows, and it clearly has a different sounding feel 
>>from the rest of the disc . . . it jumps out in a very strange way.  
>>Richard NAILED the song at the Emelin, so was this done just so there'd be 
>>a way to get Larry Campbell onto the CD? <<

Or, the arrangement with violin was the sound that they wanted to hear. I 
guess the Outpost version wasn't usable, and this is at least more legit 
than dubbing a fiddle on top of the Emelin track.

I do like the disc, and I'm sure I will be listening to it a lot, as well as 
the Sonora Sessions. However, as I have been communicating off-list with 
another lister, I am afraid that this disc represents a chance for Richard 
to wait an extra year before releasing a disc of new material. And, after 
all, isn't it the songs, more than anything else, that make him such a 
special artist?

Gene F.

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------------------------------

Date: Sat, 08 Dec 2001 16:29:30 -0500
From: Charlie Hunter <yhmgt@sover.net>
Subject: [RS] COURIER critique

Ron Gritz wrote:
> Now for my last minor gripe . . . what's with the inclusion of a studio
> recording of "Reunion Hill?"  The liner notes make it clear that it's not
> from any of the live shows, and it clearly has a different sounding feel from
> the rest of the disc . . . it jumps out in a very strange way.  Richard
> NAILED the song at the Emelin, so was this done just so there'd be a way to
> get Larry Campbell onto the CD?

Nope, the reason is that RS wasn't happy with _any_ of the live performances
of "Reunion Hill" and chose to redo it at Ben Wisch's studio. Otherwise the
song wouldn't have appeared on the album, and I think that would have been a
tragedy. I would disagree with it sounding different, myself. I think that's
only due to the fact that you _know_ it was recorded seperately. The only
thing that sounds artificial - to me - is the applause fade out at the
beginning of the song, and I bet that's because I know that it _is_
artificial.

As for the final song selection, "Sandy" vs. "Sonora" - that's an
interesting point, and one I hadn't thought of. And, as you know, we ran out
of time on the disc  - no more than 74 minutes of music on a cd, and
double-live cds - which retail at a slightly higher price, are perceived as
slow sellers by the people who order cds for stores these post-Frampton
days. We _couldn't_ fit more songs on, which is why "Sonora" was left off,
as well as all the SNP songs except "Transit." Now, if we had put "Sonora"
on and taken "Sandy" off (not a decision I would have agreed with), maybe we
could have fit another song on, as well, but I would have voted for "You
Stay Here."

Last week, when I was moving my studio, I threw out the _eight_ different
'rough' cd versions of the song sequence I had made (up in Vermont, by my
friend Patric LeBlanc). The final song order follows Richard's Emelin shows
fairly closely, with just a few tweaks of the order.

It's funny - to me - that people like the e.p. so much, as it ended up
somewhat different than I had laid it out to be (due to a complicated batch
of last-moment circumstances) and I nearly nixed putting it out (I wasn't
happy with it) until Jim (at Signature) told me in no uncertain terms that
y'all would be getting sore if you didn't get your discs quickly after Dec.
1. And now it turns out that people love it. Life is funny that way.

OK, who notices:
a) the typo in the lyrics of "Courier"
b) the one 'dropped-in' line on the whole album?

The more I listen to COURIER the better I think it is... it and Richard
Thompson's GUITAR/VOCAL are the two best live albums I know. It just reminds
me again and again what an incredible musician, singer and songwriter RS is.

Happy Holidays to all -
Charlie

PS: Has Pat Power weighed in with his opinion yet?

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 8 Dec 2001 16:25:57 -0500
From: patrick t power <ptpower@juno.com>
Subject: Re: [RS] More on Courier

Gene claimed:

<<I would have preferred three minutes of tuning to 'Memory of You,' but
that's just me. And Kristen, I guess. It was clearly stated that this CD
would reflect Richard's earlier work, but I never did like this one.>>

Speaking of tuning . . . how can this CD even be called a LIVE Shindell
record without the tuning???!!???

Kristen remarked:

<<And boy, I wish there was a way for "Wisteria" to have made the main
disc, too.  There are already SIX songs from "Sparrows Point" on the disc
(more than half the disc), so I certainly would have preferred "Wisteria"
to, say, "Memory of You.">>

If you go wa-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-y back into the archives, you'd find that
there is a reason that this record is so heavily concentrated with
Richard's earlier material -- he gave up ownership of the masters of
those recordings when he signed with Shanachie. (That may be mis-stating
things, so Charlie, please correct me if I'm wrong.) This CD is a way in
which he is able to "reclaim" the songs.

Pat
(who is sad his suggestion for the title -- "Reclamation" -- wasn't
used.)<sniff!>
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------------------------------

End of shindell-list-digest V3 #446
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