From: owner-shindell-list-digest@smoe.org (shindell-list-digest) To: shindell-list-digest@smoe.org Subject: shindell-list-digest V3 #438 Reply-To: shindell-list@smoe.org Sender: owner-shindell-list-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-shindell-list-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk shindell-list-digest Thursday, December 6 2001 Volume 03 : Number 438 Today's Subjects: ----------------- [RS] Re: Songwriters [Tom926@aol.com] Re: [RS] Winterland Wondering [Loracevoll@aol.com] Re: [RS] Where does the apostrophe go? [Loracevoll@aol.com] [RS] Re: Guinness & singing ["Gary A. Martin" ] [RS] My Top Ten [RockinRonD@aol.com] [RS] Bread For Thought [RockinRonD@aol.com] [RS] Check That... [RockinRonD@aol.com] Re: [RS] The 10 greatest songwriters -- Addendum [Loracevoll@aol.com] [RS] Re: which of these things is not like the other [Loracevoll@aol.com] [RS] The 10 greatest songwriters [Loracevoll@aol.com] [RS] Re: The 10 greatest songwriters [Rongrittz@aol.com] [RS] Top 10 songwriters [Lee Wessman ] [RS] Songwriters. [Rongrittz@aol.com] Re: [RS] Re: The 10 greatest songwriters [patrick t power From: TRNMT@aol.com (Nancy) > I just find > it to be a strange carol (unlike *our* Carol, who is not strange at all). > > Maybe it will grow on you. Strangely enough, *I* need to grow on people, too...... ;-) ............Christmas Carol {{waving @ Nancy}} The future belongs to those who believe in the beauty of their dreams. ~~ Eleanor Roosevelt ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2001 08:11:06 EST From: Loracevoll@aol.com Subject: Re: [RS] Where does the apostrophe go? > From: "Gene Frey" > Jim, too true about smuggling it in under your jacket. I remember carrying a > > 'skin' of Yago in to see Bruce Springsteen at Madison Square Garden in 1978. Oh no, I just had a horrible flash back of a vodka smuggle and a Rod Stewart stadium concert. I'm so glad all the artists I like now do small venues with nice Unitarian ladies to sell me beer and wine...... ;-) ............Carol The future belongs to those who believe in the beauty of their dreams. ~~ Eleanor Roosevelt ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2001 07:28:08 -0500 From: "Gary A. Martin" Subject: [RS] Re: Guinness & singing Carol said: >I've noticed that RS is fond of Guinness Beer. I find it >mysterious that one could find their voice after a pint of THAT brew.... ) Sounds like someone who hasn't had much experience with good draught Guinness. Unless there's some bacterial infection (if the pub doesn't clean the tubes or doesn't have enough turnover for the Guinness to be fresh), Guinness is one of the smoothest, easiest to drink, most refreshing beers around. It's fairly low in alchohol, so it doesn't dry out the throat as much as other beers, and it doesn't cause lyrics to vanish in the fog quite so early in the evening. The carbonation is very mild and well-integrated into the beer, so there's less chance of belching in the middle of a song. Not that it has anything to do with singing, but it also is not especially high in calories, either. There's very little difference in the ingredients and process of making Guinness and those of making a standard English pub ale in the 3.7 to 4.0% alcohol by volume range. A portion of the barley in Guinness is roasted until it is practically burnt, and there's less hops used, but other than that, they're about the same. I go to lots of singing sessions in pubs (and at an Irish Cultural Center) where plenty of Guinness is consumed. It doesn't seem to cause anyone trouble with their voice. The two things that have really screwed up my voice when I mix them with singing are hot sauce from buffalo wings and second-hand pipe or cigar smoke (cigarettes aren't great either, but not impossible to sing near). ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2001 08:41:20 EST From: RockinRonD@aol.com Subject: [RS] My Top Ten Interesting idea, all of us listing who we think the top ten most influential and important songwrters of our generation. I have a feeling our lists are going to be universally similar. But here's mine: Bob Dylan Lennon/McCartney (couldn't agree more with Power on this--only as a duo) John Prine Cat Stevens Neil Young Bruce Springsteen Jackson Browne Joni Mitchell Jagger/Richards (ditto--see above) Phil Ochs ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2001 08:48:19 EST From: RockinRonD@aol.com Subject: [RS] Bread For Thought In a message dated 12/6/2001 4:56:18 AM Eastern Standard Time, Peter suggested: >>> Maybe we can get to talking about breads on the D&T or Dar lists)<< > Okay, if we're going to get into naming the best bread baker, my vote goes to Baba Louie in Proctorsville, VT (no proctologist jokes, please). You haven't lived until you've had their sour dough loaf right out of the oven slathered with butter. EGAD! It's what kept me off the slopes an entire winter a few years ago. BreadManiacRonD ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2001 08:53:28 EST From: RockinRonD@aol.com Subject: [RS] Check That... Oops, am I crazy? I left Paul Simon off my top ten list. How could I do that? I should not have. I officially replace Phil Ochs with Paul Simon. In the grand scheme of things, not enough people ever really heard or appreciated Phil's songwriting, sad and tragic as that may be. I also would place Brian Wilson as a close top tenner--it's just that I never thought his songs, great as they sounded, were particularly important for the most part. ErasinRonD ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2001 10:31:18 EST From: Loracevoll@aol.com Subject: Re: [RS] The 10 greatest songwriters -- Addendum > From: patrick t power > > Perhaps tied for 10th place . . . > > Gram Parsons > Leonard Cohen > OK, The Shrek soundtrack is one CD in the car my 9 year old and I can agree on. (BTW it rocks!!) Anyway, it has Rufus (the t*tman) Wainwright covering Leonard Cohen's "Hallelujah" (excellent!) which makes me wonder why RS has never covered Cohen. He's OBVIOUSLY an influence. I really wish he would. ............Carol The future belongs to those who believe in the beauty of their dreams. ~~ Eleanor Roosevelt ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2001 10:31:49 EST From: Loracevoll@aol.com Subject: [RS] Re: which of these things is not like the other Rongrittz@aol.com:: >C'mon y'all . . . is there really any Richard song that's more dissimilar to >anything else he's written than "Lazy?" Ironically, it may be his most autobiographically correct...... ............Carol The future belongs to those who believe in the beauty of their dreams. ~~ Eleanor Roosevelt ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2001 10:31:50 EST From: Loracevoll@aol.com Subject: [RS] The 10 greatest songwriters From: Lee Wessman > > We came up with a list but I won't throw it out there yet, except to > say Lennon and McCartney were pretty much considered untouchable at > the top. Well, I'm hiding now. I don't even want to think about RG's opinion on THAT.... ............Carol (who WOULD give Lennon & McCartney woobies, but would also but Elton John & Bernie Taupin pretty high on the list, too....) The future belongs to those who believe in the beauty of their dreams. ~~ Eleanor Roosevelt ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 06 Dec 2001 10:53:39 EST From: Rongrittz@aol.com Subject: [RS] Re: The 10 greatest songwriters Lee sez: >>> Lennon and McCartney were pretty much considered untouchable at the top. <<< Carol sez: >> Well, I'm hiding now. I don't even want to think about RG's opinion on THAT.... << RG sez: Ah, Lennon/McCartney. The Joan Baez of rock. RG ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2001 09:02:31 -0800 From: Lee Wessman Subject: [RS] Top 10 songwriters Good lists, Pat and Arno. But I suspect some of these are more your favorites than a real objective look at which songwriters have written the standards of the last 50 years. I think it becomes a tricky exercise when you try to identify the 10 top songwriters in terms of their widespread cultural impact. Do they have a large catalog of instantly recognizable songs? Who are the Cole Porters, the Rogers and Harts, the Hoagie Carmichaels of our generation? Aside from what might be in our own CD playters, would we really put Gordon Lightfoot ahead of Jagger & Richards? Al Stewart ahead of Van Morrison? John Prine ahead of Sting? And would we put Dylan ahead of Lennon & McCartney? - -lee ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 06 Dec 2001 14:01:52 EST From: Rongrittz@aol.com Subject: [RS] Songwriters. Lee raises a good point. Isn't a great songwriter only a great songwriter if he/she writes songs you think are great? Meaning doesn't it still basically boils down to "Whose songs do you like?" Me, I never cared for The Beatles . . . or The Stones . . . or The Beach Boys . . . so I'd have a hard time picking Lennon/McCartney, Jagger/Richard or Carnie Wilson's dad as a great songwriter. Influential? Probably, although I've never bought into the old "If not for (fill in artist's name) there'd be no (fill in other artist's name)" fallacy. But great? Not to me. And as much as I liked John Prine, Cat Stevens, Gordon Lightfoot and Gram Parsons during the time they were cranking out compelling music, I don't think of them as "great" songwriters as much as songwriters who wrote a few songs I like. But again, it's all a matter of taste. RG ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2001 14:53:53 -0500 From: patrick t power Subject: Re: [RS] Re: The 10 greatest songwriters Lee wrote: <> RG reckoned: <> The list (if I recall correctly) was supposed to note the most influential songwriters of our generation. While I've never been much of a Beatles fan (George's post-Beatles music was my favorite, actually), there is no denying that their songs influenced scads of songwriters from Pete Hamm of Badfinger to the Bare Naked Ladies (and whoever *their* lead writer is). My list: Bob Dylan Jackson Browne Tom Waits Joni Mitchell Lennon/McCartney (I don't believe that either of them was all that significant without the other) Pete Townsend Neil Young Townes Van Zandt John Prine Elvis Costello plus: Gram Parsons Leonard Cohen Likewise, Jackson Browne spawned a glut of "sensitive" singer/songwriters. Perhaps it's going out on a limb to consider Tom Waits particularly influential, but I'll stand by that choice because he's just plain great! How many Joni Mitchell clones are running around out there now (male *and* female) with their constantly changing open tunings? Yes . . . more than we really care to know about. Pete Townsend was hugely influential in writing 1. about his days as a youngster; and 2. writing thematically for albums -- he did so very early on in the Who's existence. Neil Young *and* Elvis Costello held sway over hoards of punkers for years, Neil's ever-changing sound shows just how dynamic a writer/performer he remains. Townes Van Zandt has probably influenced the second most number of songwriters after Dylan. John Prine or Leonard might not be as influential as they are simply great, and could perhaps be replaced by Parsons, who remains influential in the alt-country world today. Pat ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/. ------------------------------ End of shindell-list-digest V3 #438 ***********************************