From: owner-shindell-list-digest@smoe.org (shindell-list-digest) To: shindell-list-digest@smoe.org Subject: shindell-list-digest V3 #363 Reply-To: shindell-list@smoe.org Sender: owner-shindell-list-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-shindell-list-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk shindell-list-digest Wednesday, October 17 2001 Volume 03 : Number 363 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: [RS] Laura's SP commentary [John Alvord ] [RS] Another Prozac Moment [RockinRonD@aol.com] [RS] replies [Vanessa Wills ] Re: [RS] replies [Vanessa Wills ] [RS] By Now [Roxylee ] Re: [RS] Young doe in the high beams. ["Kristen Myshrall" ] [RS] By Now [Charlie Hunter ] Re: [RS] By Now [Vanessa Wills ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 02:04:54 -0700 From: John Alvord Subject: Re: [RS] Laura's SP commentary On Tue, 16 Oct 2001 20:10:42 -0400, "Norman A. Johnson" wrote: >>>The Kenworth of My Dreams-It's fun, it's funny, but I much prefer Next Best >Western as a trucker's anthem. << > >It isn't clear whether the NBW narrator is a trucker. I see the lyrics >"whoever watches over all those truckers" being said by a guy seeing how >the truckers were protected and wanting some of that same protection with >the subtext being that he's just an ordinary car driver. I keep hearing the line as "whoever watches over all those sinners" Because the song sounds like the cry of a desperate sinner searching for redemption. john ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 07:34:46 EDT From: RockinRonD@aol.com Subject: [RS] Another Prozac Moment This goes out to dearest Vanessa... My dearest girl, after reading--albeit not without certain alarm-- your treatise of sorts on RS's "By Now" I would like to visit a suggestion I collectively made to you as well as those other nutcases Gene F. and Ron G. a few weeks ago. But whereas I THEN "begged" you to get some therapy...NOW I'LL EVEN PAY FOR IT, YOU POOR, HAUNTED, DAZED AND CONFUSED SOUL. I'm sure there are some reputable therapists in the Princeton area. Don't worry, that cute little wrap around jacket is for your own protection. Now go with the nice men...they have a wonderful lunch waiting for you...with fruit salad for dessert! Bye Now! ;-P AnalyzinRon ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 08:36:21 -0400 From: Vanessa Wills Subject: [RS] replies To Katrin, Yes! Yes! "...no more shall we part" is an amazing album. My first few lessons, I wasn't really getting it, but now, the more I listen to it, the more I appreciate Cave's genius. It's incredible. And to RazzinRonD: Hey! You want a piece o' dis Mwahaha?! Cuz I got your mwahaha right here! :-P Peace, V - -- "I still confuse mowing down with getting through." -Jeff Lang, "throw it all," from _Cedar Grove_ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 08:39:55 -0400 From: Vanessa Wills Subject: Re: [RS] replies listens. My first few listens. Man, I'm tired. Vanessa Wills wrote: > To Katrin, > Yes! Yes! "...no more shall we part" is an amazing album. My first few > lessons, I wasn't really getting it, but now, the more I listen to it, > the more I appreciate Cave's genius. It's incredible. > > And to RazzinRonD: > Hey! You want a piece o' dis Mwahaha?! Cuz I got your mwahaha right > here! > > :-P > > Peace, > V > > -- > "I still confuse mowing down with getting through." > -Jeff Lang, "throw it all," from _Cedar Grove_ - -- "I still confuse mowing down with getting through." -Jeff Lang, "throw it all," from _Cedar Grove_ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 08:45:00 -0400 From: Roxylee Subject: [RS] By Now I was one of the unenlightened who didn't see the deeper meaning of this song, until I read the comments here and listened more closely. It really can be taken both ways, and that's the genius of RS, letting us decide the meanings of the various phrases. Upon examination, these lines have a very sinister meaning: Put your bags in back (we need room on this seat) Don't bother with the seatbelt (we won't be driving) Take a cigarette (relax.....be disarmed) What station do you like? (your last song, sort of like your last meal, may as well enjoy it) She was already disarmed by the fact that she knew the guy, and he is playing with her, encouraging her to feel totally secure before he pounces on her (to make the shock that much more pleasurable for him). See, Laura, I used to be innocent, too, now look at me. Roxy, typing in the daylight ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 07:54:51 -0500 From: "Kristen Myshrall" Subject: Re: [RS] Young doe in the high beams. I am apparently sickeningly innocent or something....I sat here listening to this over and over and over again last night and still cannot see any evil. I mean, I'm an eternal pessimist and I still can't see it! I'm with Lisa this is Richard...he's to sweet...he can't write evil....can he?? Here i was thinking i was all slick and a woman of the world and according to you all I'm no better than sweet Mary Ann.... *sigh* Kristen Vanessa Wills wrote: > April 2000 > The Point > Bryn Mawr, PA > > > > Lisa Davis & family wrote of "By Now": > > > I couldn't hear all that evil coming through *Richard's* voice! > > -- > "I still confuse mowing down with getting through." > -Jeff Lang, "throw it all," from _Cedar Grove_ - -- "I still confuse mowing down with getting through." -Jeff Lang, "throw it all," from _Cedar Grove_Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 09:00:37 EDT From: Rongrittz@aol.com Subject: [RS] Re: Young doe in the high beams. >> Richard...he's to sweet...he can't write evil....can he?? << The sinister INS agent in "Fishing." The guy on death row in "Ascent." "By Now." Damn straight that guy can write evil. RG ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 09:08:25 -0400 From: "Gene Frey" Subject: [RS] By Now, pay later Hey you guys, OK, maybe the lyrics of By Now are just vague enough that they can be interpreted as a kindly gentleman chivalrously helping a young woman. Maybe. But, keep listening after Richard stops singing. The music goes on for about another minute, and gets even creepier, breaking down until you are almost breathless. This is what makes this song really special for me, and is the only song of Richard's where this device is used (other than Spring, where it is used for an entirely different reason). Gene F. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 09:30:18 +0000 From: Charlie Hunter Subject: [RS] By Now Dear Listers, I _love_ "By Now," being a big fan of the device of the 'Untrustworthy Narrator' in both fiction and song. Randy Newman ("Guilty") and Bill Morrissey ("Pantherville") use it; Flannery O'Connor (almost every story) and Jim Thompson ("The Killer Inside Me") use it - and what better company to keep is there than that? What I love about the skill of the writing is that the listener, once he/she figures out that something is 'off' about the narrator, can go back and unpeel the menace - or at least willful disregard for safety - of the narrator. I don't read all the sexual innuendo into "have a cigarette/what station do you like" that other esteemed listmembers do, but I do love the lines themselves. Look at what he's proposing; it is an act of perfect Biblical temptation... the first really teeny steps to the Pit for someone 12-18 (let's just assume Mary Anne fits in there age-wise): - - don't bother with the seatbelt - - have a cigarette - - listen to whatever you want to on the radio It's not: - - drink alcohol - - take drugs - - take your clothes off ...which is what makes it all the creepier, because one can fairly conjecture that that will be the next set of activities our host proposes. Like all good art, "By Now" - and much of Richard's work - draws its power by what is left out, ather than by telegraphing its intent. So much singer/songwriter - and rock - stuff hits us over the head with the point to _make sure_ we get it (it's why, for example, I find someone like Nick Cave numbing and boring whereas I _care_ about Shindell's writing). Great song. Great artist. - - Charlie ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 09:21:48 -0400 From: Vanessa Wills Subject: Re: [RS] By Now I should say--the cigarette and station stuff, is admittedly way out there. I was just trying to show the extremes to which one could take it. and.... Nick Cave's really gotten much subtler lately. He does, after all, have a wife and kid now. Not as much time for heroin these days, and his writing is improving as a result. I'd really recommend "...no more shall we part" to practically anyone. And then, the stuff on "The Boatman Calls" is also stunningly beautiful with sweet little turns of phrase here and there and really excellent songwriting throughout. All ballads on that one. That, too, is an album I'd recommend to anyone. Now, "Murder Ballads," on the other hand--it's one of my favorites, but I can certainly see where this would be a matter of widely varying personal taste! - --V Charlie Hunter wrote: > Dear Listers, > I _love_ "By Now," being a big fan of the device of the 'Untrustworthy > Narrator' in both fiction and song. Randy Newman ("Guilty") and Bill > Morrissey ("Pantherville") use it; Flannery O'Connor (almost every story) > and Jim Thompson ("The Killer Inside Me") use it - and what better company > to keep is there than that? What I love about the skill of the writing is > that the listener, once he/she figures out that something is 'off' about the > narrator, can go back and unpeel the menace - or at least willful disregard > for safety - of the narrator. I don't read all the sexual innuendo into > "have a cigarette/what station do you like" that other esteemed listmembers > do, but I do love the lines themselves. Look at what he's proposing; it is > an act of perfect Biblical temptation... the first really teeny steps to the > Pit for someone 12-18 (let's just assume Mary Anne fits in there age-wise): > - don't bother with the seatbelt > - have a cigarette > - listen to whatever you want to on the radio > > It's not: > - drink alcohol > - take drugs > - take your clothes off > > ...which is what makes it all the creepier, because one can fairly > conjecture that that will be the next set of activities our host proposes. > > Like all good art, "By Now" - and much of Richard's work - draws its power > by what is left out, ather than by telegraphing its intent. So much > singer/songwriter - and rock - stuff hits us over the head with the point to > _make sure_ we get it (it's why, for example, I find someone like Nick Cave > numbing and boring whereas I _care_ about Shindell's writing). > > Great song. Great artist. > - Charlie - -- "I still confuse mowing down with getting through." -Jeff Lang, "throw it all," from _Cedar Grove_ ------------------------------ End of shindell-list-digest V3 #363 ***********************************