From: owner-shindell-list-digest@smoe.org (shindell-list-digest) To: shindell-list-digest@smoe.org Subject: shindell-list-digest V3 #260 Reply-To: shindell-list@smoe.org Sender: owner-shindell-list-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-shindell-list-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk shindell-list-digest Monday, August 6 2001 Volume 03 : Number 260 Today's Subjects: ----------------- [RS] flesh and bones -hidden track [Sdgold60@aol.com] [RS] in defense of hidden tracks ["Vanessa C. Wills" ] Re: [RS] "Hidden Track" Question [patrick t power ] Re: [RS] "Hidden Track" Question ["Vanessa C. Wills" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 06:47:02 EDT From: Sdgold60@aol.com Subject: [RS] flesh and bones -hidden track when lucy is asked to play the hidden track "i ve just seen a face" i have heard her hem and haw.. not because its NOT a great song.. but she has to explain the hidden track and how to track backwards.. and how cumbersome it is... use her experience put hidden tracks at the end.. people tend to play out.. its work for some to track backwards... its a great song.. and a great version.. maybe she could be a temporary paperboy sharon I danced a lot of nights until the grass was wet It wasn't over yet Round 'bout 3AM you made a friend And I followed a lot of idle crazy thoughts because It's where the meaning was Though I tried to find it every other way ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 13:50:16 -0400 (EDT) From: "Vanessa C. Wills" Subject: [RS] in defense of hidden tracks Well, I agree that hidden tracks can be a pain in da butt, but at the same time, when used tastefully, they can be a very effective tool in formatting an album. For example, the hidden track on Susan Werner's "Time Between Trains" has absolutely no place within the context of the rest of the album. It's not that "The Movie of My Life"(the hidden track) is a bad song, it's just wildly different from the rest of the album. At the same time, it's a hilarious and wonderful song that deserves to get heard, and not just by her hardcore fans. If it were on an EP that came out with the album, only the devotees would hear it. Tucking the track into the end of the album,in Werner's case, really gets at the best of all possible worlds, IMHO. Peace, V P.S. WXPN just played "Sail These Same Oceans," a song by Russell Crowe's band! :-) Being a longtime Crowecaine addict (since 1995 when Virtuosity came out), I am pretty happy about that. hehe "If your mirror has a monster in it, do not shout, This kind of situation does not call for freaking out, And do nothing that you would not want to see him do, Cause that monster in the mirror, he just might be you." --Grover Monster, "The Monster in The Mirror" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 06 Aug 2001 15:57:08 +0000 From: Charlie of Young/Hunter Subject: [RS] "Hidden Track" Question Hmmmm... re: "Without further ado... Ladies and Gentlemen, Richard Shindell!" We have three choices: a) leaving it off b) giving it track one (list it as "intro") c) giving it "track zero" d) putting it on the beginning of track one - "The Courier" I still lean toward "c", because then it IS there in case anyone complains "it just starts with a song - there's no lead in" ("o-HO! No it doesn't"!). And I still think it 'feels' weird to have no intro - it seems so much a part of what happens on a live album, but who the hell wants to listen to it every damn time? Final decision will probably be made in very early Sept. I will be around till Wednesday, then go to Chama, New Mexico for ten days to paint lettering on old narrow-gauge trains, so if there's silence from here, that's the reason. Best, - - Charlie ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 15:50:46 -0400 From: patrick t power Subject: Re: [RS] "Hidden Track" Question With regard to the extant introduction, "Without further ado... Ladies and Gentlemen, Richard Shindell!", couldn't it be edited to "Ladies and Gentlemen, Richard Shindell!"? If there's no banter prior to the "Without further ado...", then there is no *ado* at all, much less *further* ado. In other words, those of us who would *prefer* to have an intro would feel cheated that we didn't get all of the hyperbole about Richard's great songs, voice and guitar-playing that (implicitly) preceded the "Without further ado..." Vaya con Dios! Pat ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 19:15:21 -0400 (EDT) From: "Vanessa C. Wills" Subject: Re: [RS] "Hidden Track" Question I cast my vote for option (c), seconding Charlie's reasoning on that front. It's kind of like putting a cozy over your toaster. The toaster's nice to have, but you don't want to have to look at it everytime you walk into your kitchen. Or is the heat just getting to me? Peace, Vanessa "If your mirror has a monster in it, do not shout, This kind of situation does not call for freaking out, And do nothing that you would not want to see him do, Cause that monster in the mirror, he just might be you." --Grover Monster, "The Monster in The Mirror" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 19:17:49 -0400 (EDT) From: "Vanessa C. Wills" Subject: Re: [RS] "Hidden Track" Question Umm, I agree with Pat, too. I think I would become angry if I heard the "without further ado..." cuz I won't even have gotten my fair share of ado and those people in the audience are complaining that they've gotten more than enough. Well, fie on them! Peace, Vanessa, who is now quite sure that the heat has already gotten to her "If your mirror has a monster in it, do not shout, This kind of situation does not call for freaking out, And do nothing that you would not want to see him do, Cause that monster in the mirror, he just might be you." --Grover Monster, "The Monster in The Mirror" On Mon, 6 Aug 2001, patrick t power wrote: > With regard to the extant introduction, "Without further ado... Ladies > and Gentlemen, Richard Shindell!", couldn't it be edited to "Ladies and > Gentlemen, Richard Shindell!"? > > If there's no banter prior to the "Without further ado...", then there is > no *ado* at all, much less *further* ado. > > In other words, those of us who would *prefer* to have an intro would > feel cheated that we didn't get all of the hyperbole about Richard's > great songs, voice and guitar-playing that (implicitly) preceded the > "Without further ado..." > > Vaya con Dios! > Pat ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 20:05:14 EDT From: Rongrittz@aol.com Subject: [RS] Re: "Hidden Track" Question >> a) leaving it off << My choice. C'mon, this isn't an actual concert. It's a live album. We all KNOW it's a live album. We all KNOW who the singer is. And as I said last week (and Pat/Vanessa seconded), "Without further ado" only makes sense if the announcer has gone through a long intro spiel, which, in this case, he hasn't. And besides, my favorite live album of all-time (ok, except for Neil Diamond's "Hot August Night"), Dylan/Band "Before the Flood," has no intro . . . and the kick-off into "Most Likely You Go Your Way (And I'll Go Mine)" knocks me out every time. >> c) giving it "track zero" << Second choice. Except, as we've heard, how to deal with the fact that many computer CD players (not to mention many others) simply can't access a "Track Zero?" I have no third or fourth choices. ;-) RG Oh, ok, but only if the "Without further ado" is cut off. There. My two cents. RG ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 07 Aug 2001 00:19:44 GMT From: jalvo@mbay.net (John Alvord) Subject: Re: [RS] Re: "Hidden Track" Question On Mon, 6 Aug 2001 20:05:14 EDT, Rongrittz@aol.com wrote: >>> a) leaving it off << > >My choice. C'mon, this isn't an actual concert. It's a live album. We all >KNOW it's a live album. We all KNOW who the singer is. And as I said last >week (and Pat/Vanessa seconded), "Without further ado" only makes sense if >the announcer has gone through a long intro spiel, which, in this case, he >hasn't. My vote is for 1) nothing or 2) hidden track. Or maybe a swell of applause seguing into the first track. My reasoning is that you will want radio play and a vocal intro will be irritating to potential DJs. Every track will shout "live" anyway so (for me) it will be just irritating. There is no art or nuance. I saw a post from someone recently who had created a special Lucy K CD with the hidden track totally unhidden... I suspect people would do the same and create intro-less RS "Got Live if You Wannit!" albums. john alvord ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 06 Aug 2001 23:31:33 -0400 From: "Gene Frey" Subject: [RS] 3/4 Time Hey you guys, Charlie wrote: >>We have three choices: a) leaving it off b) giving it track one (list it as "intro") c) giving it "track zero" d) putting it on the beginning of track one - "The Courier" << As the Jackson 5 said, ABCD, as easy as 123. Put me down for 'a' or 'b,' with the edge to 'a.' I can't really imagine anyone going through the trouble of scanning back before track 1 to hear someone who we don't know introduce Richard, so I don't see the point of putting it there. Definitely not 'd.' Gene F. (who reminds everyone out there that notorious bluesman Slim Jim DADGAD, a.k.a. our own Ron Greitzer, will be doing another one of his patented three-hours-without-a-stinkin'-break-to-get-a-lousy-cup-of-coffee shows in Glen Rock, NJ this Friday at 8 PM. Definitely worth a trip, and if you get there early the coffeehouse he is playing (Cafe Royal at Heirloom Solutions) does a nice job with sandwiches and pastries. Check Musi-cal for details, or mail me off-line.) _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ End of shindell-list-digest V3 #260 ***********************************