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shindell-list-digest     Thursday, August 2 2001     Volume 03 : Number 251



                               Today's Subjects:
                               -----------------
  Re: [RS] one more cry for Falcon Ridge  ["Vanessa C. Wills" <vcwills@Princ]
  [RS] Live Album Redux           [Charlie of Young/Hunter <yhmgt@sover.net>]
  Re: [RS] Live Album Redux      ["Vanessa C. Wills" <vcwills@Princeton.EDU>]
  Re: [RS] Live Album Redux                               [Rongrittz@aol.com]
  Re: [RS] Live Album Redux and Transit  ["Susan Koval" <skoval@telcordia.co]
  Re: [RS] Live Album Redux               [Jeff Gilson <jgilson@javanet.com>]
  Re: [RS] Live Album Redux             ["Julia A. Case" <julie@MageNet.com>]

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 09:46:41 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Vanessa C. Wills" <vcwills@Princeton.EDU>
Subject: Re: [RS] one more cry for Falcon Ridge

Hey--you leave me with my serenely romanticized Falcon Ridge imagery and
I'll leave you with yours! ;-)

Peace, Love, and Mischief,
Vanessa, who approves of "Hell-bent on Saturday" because it meets my only
personal requirement--that the title be some geographical/topographical
reference. And I suppose Hell sorta counts, right?

On Wed, 1 Aug 2001, patrick t power wrote:

> <<I stilll remember last year at the workshop when Richard was totally
> entranced by her signing his songs.>>
> 
> I don't know if it was so much that he was entranced as he was watching
> to see how she signed "flipping the bird".

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 02 Aug 2001 10:35:49 +0000
From: Charlie of Young/Hunter <yhmgt@sover.net>
Subject: [RS] Live Album Redux

All,
Jeff says it looks like we've "place(d) the intros in the index space for
the track.  But I couldn't say for sure." Well, we haven't done anything
yet. But if it means - as Gene wrote - '(keeping) the intros on separate
tracks, especially if they go more than 10 seconds or so', then that was
what my idea was, but what Jeff is referring to sounds like it might be even
better - just tell me what "placing the intros on the index space" is, and
I'll tell Ben to do it! Sounds great!

Being a slave to capitalism (i.e. trying for as much radio play as
possible), I also very much agree with Gene, "it makes a cut a lot more
likely to be played on the radio without the spoken part attached."

A question on that - what do you all think of the "And now, without further
ado, Richard Shindell!" (which is the opening announcement of the cd - prior
to 'The Courier') going before track one (a la the hidden track on Lucy's
record)? My feeling is that a live cd feels naked without such a convention,
but there's really nothing special about the announcement, and why be forced
to listen to it over and over?

As for the splice-and-dice, we're actually doing almost none of that (a
little bit to equalize the applauses), and we are doing NO overdubs (except
for one phrase in one song wherte the words ended up in unique order). BTW,
most of the performances are from 3/17, with a couple of 3/16 and 2/2.

Further suggestions & discussion (on-list) welcome. Now's the time! Thank
you all so much for your help on this!

- - Charlie, the democratic manager

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 10:55:44 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Vanessa C. Wills" <vcwills@Princeton.EDU>
Subject: Re: [RS] Live Album Redux

"If your mirror has a monster in it, do not shout,
This kind of situation does not call for freaking out,
And do nothing that you would not want to see him do,
Cause that monster in the mirror, he just might be you."
  --Grover Monster, "The Monster in The Mirror"

On Thu, 2 Aug 2001, Charlie of Young/Hunter wrote:

> A question on that - what do you all think of the "And now, without further
> ado, Richard Shindell!" (which is the opening announcement of the cd - prior
> to 'The Courier') going before track one (a la the hidden track on Lucy's
> record)? 

I think that's a super idea! It's a nice sort of bookend for the beginning
of the album, and yet we don't have to drive ourselves crazy hearing it
_every_time.

 > 
> As for the splice-and-dice, we're actually doing almost none of that (a
> little bit to equalize the applauses), and we are doing NO overdubs (except
> for one phrase in one song wherte the words ended up in unique order).

I would love it if the song with the phrase with the "unique order" ended
up on the "Sonora Sessions" bonus CD. It's just us hard-core Shindell-ites
who are gonna hear it anyways, and it would be neat to have that go down
for posterity, since the occasional flub is just as much a part of the
live music experience as anything else.

Peace,
V, deciding who's going to be the lucky recipient(s) of the extra
Hell-bent(s) she'll be buying.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 02 Aug 2001 11:09:18 EDT
From: Rongrittz@aol.com
Subject: Re: [RS] Live Album Redux

>> what do you all think of the "And now, without further ado, Richard Shindell!" (which is the opening announcement of the cd - prior to 'The Courier') going before track one (a la the hidden track on Lucy's record)? My feeling is that a live cd feels naked without such a convention,  but there's really nothing special about the announcement, and why be forced to listen to it over and over? <<

My two cents is we probably don't need it at all, but if you've gotta put it on, sure, bury it.  I've always found live CD introductions to be hokey anyway.  Furthermore, one that says "without further ado" seems to indicate that we've already been forced to sit through some "ado," which is sort of strange for a live CD.  Sure, say "Ladies and gentleman, Richard Shindell" if you've got it, but, hey, it's not like we don't know who we're listening to, right?

And besides, ANYTHING that keeps me from the first notes of my absolute favorite Richard song in the world (y'all DID know that I like "The Courier," right?) is one thing I don't need.  ;-)

>> BTW, most of the performances are from 3/17, with a couple of 3/16 and 2/2. <<

Cool beans . . . Jim, Gene, Isabel . . . we can say we were there!!!

RG

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 11:47:40 -0400
From: "Susan Koval" <skoval@telcordia.com>
Subject: Re: [RS] Live Album Redux and Transit

>Cool beans . . . Jim, Gene, Isabel . . . we can say we were there!!!
RG

And so can I (2/2)....that is pretty neat!  (Charlie, will the CD booklet
say where each song was recorded?)

And I am SO glad that "Transit" is on the new CD - I LOVE that song!!  I
also like the idea of it as Richard's new signature song.  (The "Hell bent"
title - excellent!) Sometimes I wonder though if the lyrics are as
incredible to people who don't have to deal with rush hour, or at least not
like rush hour like we have in NJ.  (Although I think that the music will
get to you even if you've never been in a car!)

And at his Minstrel performance RonG even showed me that a novice guitarist
like myself can aspire to play Transit!  :)

Sue K

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 02 Aug 2001 11:57:50 -0400
From: Jeff Gilson <jgilson@javanet.com>
Subject: Re: [RS] Live Album Redux

At 10:35 AM 08/02/2001 +0000, you wrote:
>All,
>Jeff says it looks like we've "place(d) the intros in the index space for
>the track.  But I couldn't say for sure." Well, we haven't done anything
>yet. But if it means - as Gene wrote - '(keeping) the intros on separate
>tracks, especially if they go more than 10 seconds or so', then that was
>what my idea was, but what Jeff is referring to sounds like it might be even
>better - just tell me what "placing the intros on the index space" is, and
>I'll tell Ben to do it! Sounds great!

Okay, time to get a little technical...

CDs are not solid music, usually.  There is often a one or two second gap 
between tracks on a CD.  Usually, there is silence there, but there doesn't 
have to be.  When playing a CD fully, the player will play that gap as well 
as the tracks.  (Track 1, gap 1, Track 2, gap 2... gap (n-1), Track 
n)  Also, the gap can be any lenghth.  This gap is called the index of a 
track.  Track 2's index is the first gap.  The CD will play all the indexes 
automatically (except the index of the first track, which, like with Lucy's 
and the first Jim's Big Ego disc, you need to scan backwards to 
hear).  However, if you just go to the track, it will skip the 
index.  Also, if you have the cd on random, it will skip the index.

That all depends on the (I believe, it's been a while since I did anything 
with CDs) p and q tables.  These tell the CD player at which timestamp and 
frame on the whole disc the tracks begin and end.  So, if we hide something 
before the first track, the p for the first track will be, say, 1 minute in 
from the start of the disc.  If we don't hide anything, the p for the first 
track will be at the 0 mark of the disc.  Then, track 1 ends, and there are 
two seconds of silence before the next track starts.  So, track 1's q will 
be at, say, 03:46:29 and the p for Track 2 will be at 03:48:29.  Now, if we 
wanted to put something in between the tracks, we'd just have to put the p 
for track 2 after that thing is over, so if that's exactly thirty-four 
seconds long, the p for Track 2 would now be at 04:22:29.  If you're just 
listening to the CD, you would hear the something between tracks 1 and 
2.  If you just  skipped ahead to track two, you wouldn't hear it.

Again, my terminology may be a little off, but there are a few discs I 
could point to for examples.  Lisa McCormick's Right Now does this (I 
forget which track, but I think it's track six or seven), and Pink Floyd's 
The Wall also uses this trick, since there's a lot of stuff between 
songs.  I could dig through my CDs tonight, I'm sure I've seen it elsewhere.

jeff.

- --
I think the trouble with poets
is that they see poetry everywhere
                     --Peter Mulvey
- --
writing by osmosis
     http://www.onefreeradical.com/osmosis/

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 09:13:19 -0700
From: "Julia A. Case" <julie@MageNet.com>
Subject: Re: [RS] Live Album Redux

Quoting Jeff Gilson (jgilson@javanet.com):
> CDs are not solid music, usually.  There is often a one or two second gap
> between tracks on a CD.  Usually, there is silence there, but there doesn't
> have to be.  When playing a CD fully, the player will play that gap as well

Actually I think the official 'spec' on CD recordings is that there is
supposed to be a 2 second silence between tracks.  But, like many other
things it isn't the only way to do it.

Julia

- --
[  Julia Anne Case  ] [        Ships are safe inside the harbor,       ]
[Programmer at large] [      but is that what ships are really for.    ]
[   Admining Linux  ] [           To thine own self be true.           ]
[ Windows/WindowsNT ] [ Fair is where you take your cows to be judged. ]

[demime 0.97c removed an attachment of type application/pgp-signature]

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End of shindell-list-digest V3 #251
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