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Subject: shindell-list-digest V3 #212
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shindell-list-digest       Sunday, July 1 2001       Volume 03 : Number 212



                               Today's Subjects:
                               -----------------
  [RS] The Uber-Mega-Post   [vcwills@Princeton.EDU (Vanessa Christina Wills)]
  [RS] The Uber-Mega-Post   [vcwills@Princeton.EDU (Vanessa Christina Wills)]

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sun, 1 Jul 2001 19:16:22 -0400 (EDT)
From: vcwills@Princeton.EDU (Vanessa Christina Wills)
Subject: [RS] The Uber-Mega-Post

My responses to many things, all in one neat, easy-to-swallow pill (No pun
intended!)

On the "Nice=Bad?" debate:
I don't even remember how this started. With Grocer's Broom? With The
Weather?
At any rate, it occurs to me that there is another word which, much like
"nice," can be pejorative, neutral or complimentary, and that is "simple."
I think that's somewhat relevant to the discussion because what we're
talking about here is not just the "niceness" of "The Weather," but also
how simple it is, lyrically. It doesn't appear pregnant with meaning and it
doesn't challenge us in any particular way. It's just, well . . . nice.
Depending on how you see it, that simplicity is nothing less than the stain
of thrown-together-in-the-studio-ness. On the other hand (and this is my
take), you might see that simplicity as the mark of a songwriter who
doesn't have to hide behind veils and shadows in order to make his work
seem substantive. I think it only speaks to Richard's songwriting that we
would listen to a song like "The Weather" all the way through, and then
listen again--and again, and again, in the case of *ahem* certain people.

I think that, for the most part, everyone utters three things when they
hear a Richard Shindell song for the first time: "Ooh," "Ahh," and "Huh?"
"The Weather" is an exception to that rule--you can listen to it because
it's cool, it's happy, it's fun to sing it off-key at the top of your
lungs, and it's an example of the work that got people saying Richard was a
"lapidary craftsman." In some ways, it's probably easier to pull listeners
into a web of allusions and mystery than it is to just give them a
straight-forward song that doesn't suck (I suppose that, likewise, the
former is more difficult than the latter in yet other ways).
That said, I will admit that my preference is for songs like
"Fleur-de-Lis," "Ascent," and "Transit," all the same. :-)
My last note on this--Norman, that quote of yours "It's nice to be nice to
the nice" has just got my brain all twisted up in knots around the various
ways one could interpret it. "It's stupid to be friendly toward stupid
people?" <sigh>
____________________________
OK--next up--Nora and the craft of transgendered songwriting and
performance:
Norman said: <<I don't see Dar's "Highway Patrolman" as a woman nor do I
see Richard's "Mary Magdalen" as a man. But I see Dar's narrator in Nora as
a woman. Adds another dimension to the phrase "Nora, it was no sin".>>

Funny you should mention that, because it gets me thinking about Dar's
"Mary Magdalen" which has always left me a little unsatisfied. It's odd
because I _believe_ the song when Richard sings it. And Dar has genetics
and estrogen on her side and I just don't feel she sells the song the way
Richard does. I'm thinking, "OK, your name is 'Dar Williams' and you're
pretending to be someone else right now." With Richard, all I can see/hear
is Mary. A baritone Mary, but hey. Strange.
I've never heard Lucy do the song. Maybe she'll do it at the Ridge this
year since Richard will be <sniff, sniff> elsewhere?
____________________________
Adriana DiGennaro, Shindell-list Poet Laureate?:
That is so cool!
It's amazing for anyone to have accomplished something of that magnitude at
any age, let alone 17. (Dang! Making me feel _old_!) Please extend Adriana
my congratulations, Ron. That rocks. :-) Totally.
____________________________
The Live Album:
As to which songs made the cut, I'm holding out hope for Fleur-de-lis
which, the first time I heard it done live (which was also the last), was
absolutely one of the most sweetly, achingly, haunting things I'd ever
heard. If the album version is stunning, than the live version is downright
ecstatic. Of course, I'll be happy with whatever's on the album--I can't
wait until December! :-)

The "extensive, and very special" tour:
Super! :-)
_____________________________
Possible live album names:
Janet asked: "Any clue what the title will be??"

My money's on some sort of geographical reference, in keeping with the
tradition . . .
_____________________________

OK, there you have it--my take on everything. I figured better this than
inbox-flooding. :-)

Peace, Love, and Mischief,
Vanessa

P.S. Umm, am I the only one who is thoroughly weirded out by this AOL
trivia question?
>>"Q:In AOL emoticon shorthand, what does "LOL" mean? A: Laugh Out Loud!"<<


Excuse me, but "AOL emoticon shorthand"? Oh, I didn't realize they'd
invented that. Sort of like the phrase "You've Got Mail." I know I never
once uttered those words in that order before my computer started hollering
them at me everytime I signed online. (hmmph!) Didn't AOL invent smiley
faces, too? And buddies?

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 1 Jul 2001 19:17:45 -0400 (EDT)
From: vcwills@Princeton.EDU (Vanessa Christina Wills)
Subject: [RS] The Uber-Mega-Post

My responses to many things, all in one neat, easy-to-swallow pill (No pun
intended!)

On the "Nice=Bad?" debate:
I don't even remember how this started. With Grocer's Broom? With The
Weather?
At any rate, it occurs to me that there is another word which, much like
"nice," can be pejorative, neutral or complimentary, and that is "simple."
I think that's somewhat relevant to the discussion because what we're
talking about here is not just the "niceness" of "The Weather," but also
how simple it is, lyrically. It doesn't appear pregnant with meaning and it
doesn't challenge us in any particular way. It's just, well . . . nice.
Depending on how you see it, that simplicity is nothing less than the stain
of thrown-together-in-the-studio-ness. On the other hand (and this is my
take), you might see that simplicity as the mark of a songwriter who
doesn't have to hide behind veils and shadows in order to make his work
seem substantive. I think it only speaks to Richard's songwriting that we
would listen to a song like "The Weather" all the way through, and then
listen again--and again, and again, in the case of *ahem* certain people.

I think that, for the most part, everyone utters three things when they
hear a Richard Shindell song for the first time: "Ooh," "Ahh," and "Huh?"
"The Weather" is an exception to that rule--you can listen to it because
it's cool, it's happy, it's fun to sing it off-key at the top of your
lungs, and it's an example of the work that got people saying Richard was a
"lapidary craftsman." In some ways, it's probably easier to pull listeners
into a web of allusions and mystery than it is to just give them a
straight-forward song that doesn't suck (I suppose that, likewise, the
former is more difficult than the latter in yet other ways).
That said, I will admit that my preference is for songs like
"Fleur-de-Lis," "Ascent," and "Transit," all the same. :-)
My last note on this--Norman, that quote of yours "It's nice to be nice to
the nice" has just got my brain all twisted up in knots around the various
ways one could interpret it. "It's stupid to be friendly toward stupid
people?" <sigh>
____________________________
OK--next up--Nora and the craft of transgendered songwriting and
performance:
Norman said: <<I don't see Dar's "Highway Patrolman" as a woman nor do I
see Richard's "Mary Magdalen" as a man. But I see Dar's narrator in Nora as
a woman. Adds another dimension to the phrase "Nora, it was no sin".>>

Funny you should mention that, because it gets me thinking about Dar's
"Mary Magdalen" which has always left me a little unsatisfied. It's odd
because I _believe_ the song when Richard sings it. And Dar has genetics
and estrogen on her side and I just don't feel she sells the song as well
as Richard does. I'm thinking, "OK, your name is 'Dar Williams' and you're
pretending to be someone else right now." With Richard, all I can see/hear
is Mary. A baritone Mary, but hey. 
I've never heard Lucy do the song. Maybe she'll do it at the Ridge this
year since Richard will be <sniff, sniff> elsewhere?
____________________________
Adriana DiGennaro, Shindell-list Poet Laureate?:
That is so cool!
It's amazing for anyone to have accomplished something of that magnitude at
any age, let alone 17. (Dang! Making me feel _old_!) Please extend Adriana
my congratulations, Ron. That rocks. :-) Totally.
____________________________
The Live Album:
As to which songs made the cut, I'm holding out hope for Fleur-de-lis
which, the first time I heard it done live (which was also the last), was
absolutely one of the most sweetly, achingly, haunting things I'd ever
heard. If the album version is stunning, than the live version is downright
ecstatic. Of course, I'll be happy with whatever's on the album--I can't
wait until December! :-)

The "extensive, and very special" tour:
Super! :-)
_____________________________
Possible live album names:
Janet asked: "Any clue what the title will be??"

My money's on some sort of geographical reference, in keeping with the
tradition . . .
_____________________________

OK, there you have it--my take on everything. I figured better this than
inbox-flooding. :-)

Peace, Love, and Mischief,
Vanessa

P.S. Umm, am I the only one who is thoroughly weirded out by this AOL
trivia question?
>>"Q:In AOL emoticon shorthand, what does "LOL" mean? A: Laugh Out Loud!"<<


Excuse me, but "AOL emoticon shorthand"? Oh, I didn't realize they'd
invented that. Sort of like the phrase "You've Got Mail." I know I never
once uttered those words in that order before my computer started hollering
them at me everytime I signed online. (hmmph!) Didn't AOL invent smiley
faces, too? And buddies?

------------------------------

End of shindell-list-digest V3 #212
***********************************