From: owner-shindell-list-digest@smoe.org (shindell-list-digest) To: shindell-list-digest@smoe.org Subject: shindell-list-digest V3 #99 Reply-To: shindell-list@smoe.org Sender: owner-shindell-list-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-shindell-list-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk shindell-list-digest Monday, March 19 2001 Volume 03 : Number 099 Today's Subjects: ----------------- [RS] California Dreaming ["Norman A. Johnson" ] Re: [RS] Tape Trading - Rant [Lisa Davis & family ] Re: [RS] RS Misc. [Lisa Davis & family ] [RS] Trusts ["Norman A. Johnson" ] Re: [RS] Re: Emelin night 2 . . . ["Joe Lanzalotto" ] Re: [RS] RS Misc. ["Mark A. Douglas" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 19:37:47 -0500 From: "Norman A. Johnson" Subject: [RS] California Dreaming As you may know by now, John Phillips of "The Mamas and the Papas" died yesterday. After listening to Terry Gross' 1986 interview with him in which they played "California Dreaming", I was struck by how this might be a good song for Cry3 to do (were they to ever get back together). Lucy on lead with Dar and Richard doing harmony! Norman ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 20:21:51 -0500 From: Lisa Davis & family Subject: Re: [RS] Tape Trading - Rant Elwestrand wrote:..... I AGREE! BTW "somehow" various people I know on the continent and in the UK have "heard" Richard's performances via similar methods and now own entire Richard CD collections and some of them know people who run folk clubs and generally, would proselytize like mad, come to concerts and bring all their friends.......... And HONESTLY, do you think anyone here would be trying to make money that way??????!!!!!!!!!!!!! What do you take us for! BTW. If it came to that, I think Dar even mentioned at one time having people make a contribution to something for her -- or I've heard other people talk about a fund. If we could just pay the artist directly what (s)he would otherwise make on a recording, we would! ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 20:31:09 -0500 From: Lisa Davis & family Subject: Re: [RS] RS Misc. "Clary, John (CLRY)" wrote: > shows gives him. And yeah while I'm at it, I think Napster is evil. All I can say about Napster is that now I *do* plan to buy Alan Stivell's "Back to Breizh" which I'll buy in Europe, the only place i can find it if not online, because I've heard some of it off MP3s. I managed to actually find a Puerto Rican song I have taped off the radio and have started learning spanish to decipher. Now maybe I'll know what I want to BUY when I go to the record store. Even in my heavily latino town, are there CDs in tehlibrary for me to listen to that would help? No... The amount of time it takes to download one song off Napster I feel the record companies shoudl pay *me,* !!! No, the point is, technology is way out ahead of copyright laws and there will jsut have to be a better solution. I don't know what it is, but there will have to be one. You can't put the genii back in the bottle and if you try we will be the poorer for it -- well wait a minute, I'm a lawyer, so me and my brethren will be richer and everyone else will be poorer! :) Interestingly, another artist I like (sometims), Al Stewart, had such a nasty time with his record companies that he has almost encouraged taping, lets fans plug in at the board, and his list had a 'tape bank" of concerts that were religiously maintained, like an archive, with a rotating list of people who made a request. People would send a blank tape and eventually receive a copy of the concert they had requested. There were sort of tape bank officers that took turns recording. (Of course you want the sensible ones that use dolby and so on!) In fact, he even "released" to the tape bank an early concert tape, I think it was from Christmas 1970 or something, as a present to his fans. I have this one, known as the "Christmas present," plus various other early gems. Al Stewart's banter is an acquired taste and in many ways he is a polar opposite from Richard, but in any event, it's something you can't possibly glean from even a live recording. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 20:41:13 -0500 From: "Norman A. Johnson" Subject: [RS] Trusts Lisa wrote: >> If it came to that, I think Dar even mentioned at one time having people make a contribution to something for her -- or I've heard other people talk about a fund. If we could just pay the artist directly what (s)he would otherwise make on a recording, we would! << Dar's fund is called Snowden Environmental Trust. Charlie still runs it. Norman ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 21:56:49 -0500 From: "Joe Lanzalotto" Subject: Re: [RS] Re: Emelin night 2 . . . >(snip) ...on the other hand, I was lucky enough to be able to spend quite a while talking to Tom Rush, who is perhaps a better person than a singer/songwriter >He always seemed like he'd be a pretty decent person to be around to me. >i agree, he is a much better interpretor than writer, as probably best >evidenced in new year's eve and late night radio- both of which are head >and shoulders above anything else i've ever heard of his. >not much of a fan of his acoustic rocker days, though... even thought i >really tried to be! >Jim Colbert True, Tom is not the most prolific writer of great songs, but there are some real gems. "No Regrets" comes to mind. Joe ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 22:05:15 -0500 From: "Joe Lanzalotto" Subject: Re: [RS] Tape Trading - Rant Well, you're right about all of it, but the fact is that the bootleg tapes are only okay if its alright with the artist,since she/he is the one who created the music. We're lucky enough that it is okay with RS, but if it weren't, well. that would be HIS right. Joe - ----- Original Message ----- From: Elwestrand To: richardites Sent: Monday, March 19, 2001 1:49 PM Subject: [RS] Tape Trading - Rant > Well I understand the general point about tape trading. However, > I, who will never get to see Richard and Lucy together cause I > am on the West coast where we aren't worthy of them coming and > playing together - even though they come and play seperately - > am totally unrepentant of wanting the tape of Emelin NOW. The > list yaks on and on about these shows and I may never have the > priviledge. And what about the poor listers in Europe. They > could wait two years to hear a new song. > > And also if we don't occasionally mention on the list that we > have tapes to trade, then how are we supposed to make contact > with other likeminded listers? I am not saying that the list > should be an endless litany of tape trading but I don't see the > sin of an occasionally request or offer. > > And a bootleg is different then the official recording. You get > to hear all the talking, crowd interaction, mistakes, jokes etc. > It is not the same as what makes it to the CD. It is more > personal and fun for a fan and possible annoying to a non-fan. > > I am agressively seeking a bootleg with Dar's new song on it > cause she currently has no plans to come here and I don't want > to wait a year to hear her new song. I mean we're on this list > cause we are a little over-the-top about RS. If we didn't want > special access and inside info we wouldn't be here. I don't like > the implication that we are somehow hurting these artist by > trading tapes. I have bought and given multiple copies of their > CD's to friends and relatives. I have paid to take multiple > people to their shows. I think I have done just the opposite of > hurting them. And will I abuse my copy of either of these tapes? > No. And will I buy the Live CD? Of course. I can't imagine the > person who would only listen to the bootleg. I mean if your fan > enough to want bootlegs of a show would you really not buy the > real thing? I assume this is why Young Hunter is "tape > friendly." I imagine if you are the a big star people will buy > your bootlegs, but I have trouble imagining the pathetic person > who would spend time selling bootlegs for our relatively obscure > musical heroes. That person would really need to get a life. > > OK end rant. > > E > > > > ________________________________________________ > Get your own "800" number > Voicemail, fax, email, and a lot more > http://www.ureach.com/reg/tag ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 21:10:36 -0600 From: "Mark A. Douglas" Subject: Re: [RS] RS Misc. "Someone (sorry, lost post)" wrote: And yeah while I'm at it, I think Napster is evil. Well, because, no it's not. Because of Napster, I've put money in the pockets of a lot of different artists that I wouldn't have put money in the pockets thereof without, (I say, praying that the list grammarians don't attack: I don't have my Fowler handy.) I do think that Napster, like many other benign technologies, may and can be used for not-so-benign purposes. But that doesn't make the technology evil. It makes the abusers evil, to use your word. And since various artists seem divided on the opinions regarding Napster, I'm not sure that there's a consensus opinion from the "abused artists" segment. As a development tool for new or underheard artists, Napster is a wonderful technology. For artists that don't get to play all parts of the country, Napster allows fans to get their music and begin to plan trips to go see the artists they've learned to like through Napster. In Shindell's case, it's not exactly like he gets a lot of radio play here in Memphis (and the same goes for Ellis Paul, Vance Gilbert, Don Conoscenti, Patty Griffin, Dar Williams, I could go on and on...) Nor do any of these artists swing down here too often to play shows that I've discovered. But mainly because of recommendations and listen-to's via Napster, I've now got all of their entire collections. With no tour support, and no radio support. And I'm taking trips this spring and summer to see some of them in various guises and places. So, how exactly is Napster evil? Is it because I bought five Ellis Paul cd's but didn't pay 25 cents for the tune I downloaded, or is it because somewhere somehow, a record executive feels like he's lost control of his product? I suspect it's the latter of the two, and I also suspect that only really short-sighted artists are the ones coming out against this. Just one guy typing out loud. Peace. Mark ------------------------------ End of shindell-list-digest V3 #99 **********************************