From: owner-shindell-list-digest@smoe.org (shindell-list-digest) To: shindell-list-digest@smoe.org Subject: shindell-list-digest V3 #60 Reply-To: shindell-list@smoe.org Sender: owner-shindell-list-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-shindell-list-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk shindell-list-digest Saturday, February 24 2001 Volume 03 : Number 060 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: [RS] Old as the Hills [patrick t power ] Re: [RS] More on Senile Grammies [patrick t power ] [RS] It's E-Neff [RockinRonD@aol.com] [RS] Fwd: BOUNCE shindell-list@smoe.org: Admin request of type /^\s*who\s*$/i at line 7 ["Sally Green" Subject: Re: [RS] Old as the Hills Deb wrote: <> I *rarely* listen to radio anymore unless it's news/talk format. I don't tend to watch the Grammys anymore for the same reason I don't tend to eat baloney anymore -- it's only baloney. With regard to the Grammys (oops . . . shouldn't I insert a registered trademark symbol here?!!?), they have lately been dominated (in the major categories) by the old farts -- Dylan, Bonnie Raitt, Carlos Santana . . . Steely Dan this year. While I highly respect all of these artists, it's clear that the academy (a misnomer?) is dominated by similarly-aged voters who have decided that it's time the 60s/70s-era people get their due. For over ten years, I was a major collector of all-things-Dylan. I have recordings from before he made his first record to concert recordings of the late 70s and early 80s, which is when he began to lose his viability as an artist in my eyes. I'm not even sure I've listened to "Time Out Of Mind" (the Grammy winner) in its entirety. As Dylan recordings go, it's nothing special. His voice no longer has the expressiveness and most of his lyrics are less than stellar. Am I glad he won the award? Sure . . . because he deserves a bit of mainstream recognition. But the recording itself isn't award-winning material. Am I glad that Bonnie Raitt won her award. Absolutely. She has been dwelling in the shadows of Jackson Browne, the Eagles and Linda Ronstadt for as long as I've known the difference between a 45 and an LP -- which is a considerable number of years. Santana has never been one of my favorites (talented though I recognize him to be) but I've always thought Steely Dan was one of the cooler, smarter groups of the 70s/80s. Still, their recent material isn't all that notable when compared to their best stuff. I suppose that as long as the old farts continue to win these awards, I can can take solace in the fact that the likes of Eminem, Nsync and the Backstreet Boys *aren't* winning them. Talk about music that isn't viable!! Pat ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Feb 2001 12:15:14 -0500 From: patrick t power Subject: Re: [RS] More on Senile Grammies In response to RonD's comments, RonG wrote: <<>> I firmly believe that the Acoustic Music community ought to create its own awards. There's just too much talent out there that goes unrecognized. << Unrecognized by whom? I would argue that the Acoustic Music community *absolutely* recognizes its talent. Because that community is US, and I don't think WE need a special award for Richard or Dar or Lucy in order for their contribution to our sense of "What Makes Good Music" to be validated.>> I tend to agree with this. That said, I recently attended the North American Folk Alliance at which I attended a luncheon which honored the lifetime achievements of Ralph Rinzler, Paul Robeson and Lydia Mendoza. I think I could bring myself to watch an awards program that had as its purpose honoring people for the contributions that they have made either to the music industry, to the community (or world) or both. Instead, we get three hours of back-slapping which has less to do with talent (or heart) than it does with record sales and public relations. Pat ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Feb 2001 12:43:41 EST From: RockinRonD@aol.com Subject: [RS] It's E-Neff In a message dated 2/24/2001 12:14:00 PM Eastern Standard Time, RonG reacts: > >>Unrecognized by whom? I would argue that the Acoustic Music community > *absolutely* recognizes its talent. Because that community is US, and I > don't think WE need a special award for Richard or Dar or Lucy in order for > their contribution to our sense of "What Makes Good Music" to be validated.< > < Of course, WE recognize these talented people. But I think a proper award program for the acoustic community would go a long way toward winning new listeners and fans for the Richards, Cheryls, Lucys and Dars of the world. Isn't that what the Grammys ultimately do for all those Hip Hop, Rap, Whatever hucksters? > > >>And for the Great Unwashed, you think the fact that some obscure > performer > named Richard Shindell won some obscure award called, oh, the "Neffy" would > make them run out and buy "Somewhere Near Paterson?" Not likely. If they > don't get it By Now, they never will.<< If the "Neffy" Acoustic Awards (catchy title, by the by) were presented in an intelligent, graceful fashion (and it's possible on television I'm convinced), in a way that showcases these artists properly, not in any hyped up, shove-em-down-our-throats manner, I think it could be a great evening of entertainment that would open alot of peoples' eyes to the new modern troubadors, many of whom a good portion of the acoustic listening community may not even know about. That tribute to Joni Mitchell that was on TV a few months ago was terrific--Richard Thompson doing a Joni cover was tremendous and made for great TV entertainment. So soulful. Ditto for Cyndi Lauper's cover. I would love to see a separate awards show for contemporary folk music, definition or no definition of the category. I think the Indie record companies should get together and just do it. There IS strength in numbers...After All. Ron ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Feb 2001 12:46:02 -0500 From: "Sally Green" Subject: [RS] Fwd: BOUNCE shindell-list@smoe.org: Admin request of type /^\s*who\s*$/i at line 7 From: Loracevoll@aol.com Received: from Loracevoll@aol.com by imo-r09.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v29.5.) id p.ba.11fcee28 (5739) for ; Sat, 24 Feb 2001 12:32:37 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Sat, 24 Feb 2001 12:32:37 EST Subject: Re: [RS] More on Senile Grammies To: shindell-list@smoe.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 117 Ron G said: > Is Patty Griffin's > "Living With Ghosts" a Folk album and "Flaming Red" Rock, while Bruce's " > Born > to Run" Rock and "Nebraska" Folk? What differentiates a Country singer who > plays an acoustic guitar from what you'd consider a "Folk" singer who plays > one? What about "Folk" singers who don't write their own songs? > Well, I think Richard really summed this up in an interview I had with him a few years ago. (and I paraphrase) .....If you're Springsteen and you release "The Ghost of Tom Joad" -- it goes in Rock. It all comes down to SALES. If you don't have a huge cash following -- you're going in the folk bin. Cheers.....Carol _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Feb 2001 14:03:25 EST From: Coledawgy@aol.com Subject: [RS] folk recognition in response to the rons... > >> I firmly believe that the Acoustic Music community ought to create its > own > awards. There's just too much talent out there that goes unrecognized. << > > Unrecognized by whom? I would argue that the Acoustic Music community > *absolutely* recognizes its talent. Because that community is US, and I > don't think WE need a special award for Richard or Dar or Lucy in order for > their contribution to our sense of "What Makes Good Music" to be validated. > i always though the AFIM was a pretty positive thing for folks in the u.s. it's certainly not universal but i would say that most of the american folkies that we know and love will get more recognition through the afim than anything else. i'm not terribly familiar with what all they recognize and what kind of categories they have but i know that lucy won last year. i guess i should study up on that stuff. i've learned through the hellacious dar contest thing that, at least here in the south, the four letter f-word "folk" is worse than the other, more famous four letter f-word. if you want to see people lose interest quickly, say "folk". i tried "singer/songwriter" and got a slightly better response but still pretty weak. it's sad to me because people write it off so quickly, but also because i do know what they're listening to instead. i work at a place which plays one or two different radio stations. the other day, i didn't have much work to do and it was my mission to bust my butt and try to get out before i heard the same song twice. didn't happen. less than 3 hours. and this was in the morning time when 3/4 of the show is spent talking or playing games. it makes me ill. and what makes me more ill is to think how much money they make per spin on the radio and how much one single radio station does for that. honestly, i'm not a popular music fan for the most part but i would like to think that there's at least more popular music that they could play. i ask my coworkers how they can stand to hear the same 8 or so songs 10 times a day each. they never seem to have a good answer but yet never seem to want to change the station. talk about not getting it. i will stop ranting for now. i think i just needed to get this out to people who i know understand what i'm talking about. no one here does. :c( ..nicole ------------------------------ End of shindell-list-digest V3 #60 **********************************