From: owner-shindell-list-digest@smoe.org (shindell-list-digest) To: shindell-list-digest@smoe.org Subject: shindell-list-digest V2 #355 Reply-To: shindell-list@smoe.org Sender: owner-shindell-list-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-shindell-list-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk shindell-list-digest Saturday, December 2 2000 Volume 02 : Number 355 Today's Subjects: ----------------- [RS] Re: the year in music [Rongrittz@aol.com] [RS] Carrie Newcomer [SMOKEY596@aol.com] [RS] Re: breathtaking [j a clary ] Re: [RS] Re: the year in music [patrick t power ] [RS] the girls with mature guitars ["sharon g" ] Re: [RS] Re: the year in music [j a clary ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 2 Dec 2000 15:04:55 EST From: Rongrittz@aol.com Subject: [RS] Re: the year in music Well, you folks know how much I hate to be opinionated and all, but . . . Sharon on MCC: >> mary chapin captures intimacy 'like no artist i know.. she got a sonynashville contract and has used her gifts wisely- she cowrites with the best women of the south and continues to capture her audience she directs her career wisely and the crowds get bigger and bigger chapin is shy and commands an audience from a distance she fell into nashville before GARTH and like steve earle and nanci griffith used it wisely.. a sonynashville contract is better than NO contract. << That's basically what I'm saying -- that she had to make the move to a Nashville audience to avoid having no audience at all. Face it, Mary Chapin Carpenter is about as country as Marilyn Manson. While I'm not calling that "sell-out" or anything like that, my original point was that if Richard WANTED to, he could allow himself to be remarketed to a country audience to try and make it big(ger), but that he realizes how antithetical that would be to Who He Really Is. >> i cant wait for the next CHAPIN CD << Why wait? Seeing as I'm of the opinion that MCC has released essentially the same CD over and over since 1990's "Shooting Straight in the Dark," I'm pretty sure that the next Chapin CD will be the same as the last Chapin CD and the one before that. Look, I'm not saying that's a bad thing, necessarily. If you're a fan of the type of music she makes, then more of the same is a welcome thing. I'm just not a fan of that type of music . . . breezy, self-important, pseudo-intellectual schmaltz. Pat on Dar: >> The chances that Dar has taken with the CD (that I believe Norman refers to) have more to do with the content of the songs than with the production of the sound Dar also has taken the chance of revealing so much more of herself than she has in the past. I don't mean it in that she says "this happened to me and that happened to me", but that she reveals her struggles with her own weaknesses; that as bright, creative and self-assured a woman as she is (or at least that *we've* seen), her doubts about herself have run *so* deep so as to question her own worth as a human being. << OK, that describes "After All." Got another example? Forgive me, but I still don't see the "chances" she took, or this highly-touted "revelation." I think there's more chance-taking and soul-baring in "When I Was a Boy" than on all of "The Green World" combined. Pat on Kris: >> Perhaps it would be best for me to have said that Kris' songs don't grab me like Richard's or Dar's do -- in fact, they don't grab me like a *lot* of other folks' songs do. << You're certainly entited to feel that way, since I think we can all agree that music is a very personal thing. Hey, I originally dismissed Kris, too, because I felt that her talent got lost in the morass of same-sounding Janey-One-Note gals-with-guitars that comprised the "Respond" compiliation CD. Yet when I was sent "Appetite" out of the blue, and I was really able to experience more than just the one song, it really made me perk up and take notice . . . it "grabbed me," to use your phrase. And to me, that's a measure of quality. The ability to cut through and strike me as Something Different. I love Dar, but she no longer grabs me as being unique . . . the bloom is off the rose, so to speak. Kris's writing skill, extraordinary musicianship, and versatile voice are unlike anything I've heard since Lori McKenna blew me away in late '98, and put her on level above most of the singer/songwriters that occupied my CD player in Y2K. RG ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 2 Dec 2000 15:07:36 EST From: SMOKEY596@aol.com Subject: [RS] Carrie Newcomer - --->Insert obligatory apologies for multiple posting here. Is anyone out there a fan of Carrie Newcomer? I'm not, really, even tho she's been playing around Bloomington for many years. But I did see her a couple of months ago here at a concert for her new CD release. The reason I went is because Vance Gilbert opened for her, but I digress. :-) Anyway, the show was videotaped and is going to be broadcast on our local public station next week. If anyone would like me to tape it for them, just let me know. First one to email me with a request gets it, I guess, as I don't know how many times they will show it, and I don't have the capability to make copies. :-) It may be shown on other PBS stations around the country too, I don't know. In any case, just let me know and I'll be glad to do it. I don't think Vance's part will be in it, tho, darn the luck! Thanks again going on to Bryn on ALL of these lists for the great time last night at her house! (Don Conoscenti house concert) SMOKEY For my Best Buddy, Rex Help Find Jill (http://www.alumni.indiana.edu/iuaa/jillbehrman/) "The memory is a useful thing, store the good stuff in the easy to reach places, put the rest in the attic with the cobwebs where it belongs..." - -Ellis Paul ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 2 Dec 2000 12:12:29 -0800 From: j a clary Subject: [RS] Re: breathtaking OK Ron, I don't want to be killed (damn the admins on this list are harsh =) so I am posting our exchange for the list to read: On Fri, 01 Dec 2000 13:11:21 EST Rongrittz@aol.com writes: > Post this to the list or I'll kill you. It says everything mine > didn't. > > RG > > In a message dated Fri, 1 Dec 2000 12:59:40 PM Eastern Standard > Time, j a clary writes: > > > Speaking of breathtaking, the phrase "How could they just cut it > > down" from "Wisteria" may just be the RS line I take to my grave > > with me. > > "breathtaking": > > Not sure I can admit this on the list. That line, especially live, > accents the "Just" and then a huge yet short pause before "cut it > down," and the first time I heard it, I could not breath during the whole > pause. It seemed like eternity and I knew what the next words would be (I > could not see the lyrics for the tears already falling). My next gasp for > air resulted in sobbing and I missed the rest of the song. > > I agree that this line holds permanent residence in my heart. > > j a c ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 2 Dec 2000 15:30:25 -0500 From: patrick t power Subject: Re: [RS] Re: the year in music Ron wrote: <> The chances that Dar has taken . . .<< OK, that describes "After All." Got another example? Forgive me, but I still don't see the "chances" she took, or this highly-touted "revelation." I think there's more chance-taking and soul-baring in "When I Was a Boy" than on all of "The Green World" combined.>> Interesting. I don't consider "When I Was A Boy" as soul-baring as "O Canada Girls" or "Calling The Moon". They are very much in the same category as "This Was Pompeii" an incredibly personal song once you dig through the rubble. Pat ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 02 Dec 2000 21:04:23 From: "sharon g" Subject: [RS] the girls with mature guitars here we go again.. there are mature women in the world writing music that capture the experience of MATURE women and they are easily dismissed..they dont play guitar well enough or are GAY or write formula songs.. you all need to check yourselves... now we throw DAR and mary chapin in the mix mary chapin asked sonynashville to record her just as dar asked to joan to allow her to tour with her or to play lilith fair.. all three events were career changers for these woman.. mary chapin touches women.. like richard touches you all wisteria does not make me cry..cry..cry... richard singing memphis makes me cry..cliff singing memphis makes me weep... as for women like susan werner who writes about real women doing real things..and can preform those songs too and now dar.. let her GROW.. and grow the green world is remarkably personal another mystery... not a pop song.. it happens everyday.. can you get more personal.. afterall.. it speaks volumes. what do you love more than love.. not just a pop single.. spring street.. you havent been listening the struggle women face.. artist face.. dars career struggle its all in spring street a G_D decended .. who writes based on a NOVEL.. richard shindell?? I have no right... celebrate the ones who challenge the world and keep to their prinicples.. look at HOW many shows last year dar did that were benefits.. maybe she needed the tax write off and to take a touring loss. she is telling to all with this cd.. standing naked if you all would look and i know you want to... sharon _____________________________________________________________________________________ Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 2 Dec 2000 13:12:02 -0800 From: j a clary Subject: Re: [RS] Re: the year in music Ron & Pat's exchange about whether or not Dar is offering us "revealing enough" songs got me thinking. I only wish that one of the songs I've written over the last 15 years gets talked about and debated by such smart and insightful folks as those on this list. I'd love to hear folks analyze my work (as a fly on the wall though, couldn't bear it face to face) to see if I actually meant something other than what was going through my heart as I wrote. In essance, to hear how my lyrics apply within the context someone else's experience. I have been told that I write very plainly and don't cloak my ideas in a way that makes people reach for what I'm saying. You always know what you're getting from a John Clary lyric. I'm sue that's why we love Dar & Richard's songs so much and why I still have my day job. j a c ------------------------------ End of shindell-list-digest V2 #355 ***********************************