From: owner-shindell-list-digest@smoe.org (shindell-list-digest) To: shindell-list-digest@smoe.org Subject: shindell-list-digest V2 #309 Reply-To: shindell-list@smoe.org Sender: owner-shindell-list-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-shindell-list-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk shindell-list-digest Monday, October 30 2000 Volume 02 : Number 309 Today's Subjects: ----------------- [RS] Re: Trick or Treat [Tom926@aol.com] [RS] SOTW: AYHN [steve ] [RS] SOTW [Evan Gordon ] [RS] AYHN [Roxylee ] Re: [RS] SOTW: Are You Happy Now? [Deb Woodell ] [RS] Re: shindell-list-digest V2 #308 [FISH1994@aol.com] [RS] SOTW: Are You Happy Now? ["Adam Watson" ] [RS] Adam is my new best friend, and SOTW ["Gene Frey" ] RE: [RS] SOTW: Are You Happy Now? ["Dupas, Edward (E.M.)" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 05:45:11 EST From: Tom926@aol.com Subject: [RS] Re: Trick or Treat I think the "what comes out grey" line is rather a straighforward one. Read it in context. She's left him, taken him for everything he's got and he's angry. Very very angry. What I find really works here is the allusion to suicide (ie. anger turned inward, against the self): he holds the camera (gun) to his head and shoots. The picture, although it is black and white (ie shades of grey), should be (metaphorically) red (ie angry). The next verse makes that anger clear. The song is in a long tradition of "fuck you you left me" songs that set angry/sad lyrics against an upbeat "happy" tune (though at 6 am I can't think of many songs that set happy upbeat lyrics against mournful music, which could also be very interesting). I like the song alot (it is one of the best on the first album), but I can understand why RS would be tired of singing it. Musicians, like any other artists, want to share their newest works. Who wants to do the same thing over and over and over again? I always thought Joni Mitchell was interesting because she refuses to sing all her old hits, saying she is not a "human jukebox." Still, a good song to look at during Halloween week, eh? Trick or treat. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 06:11:00 -0500 From: steve Subject: [RS] SOTW: AYHN My name is Steve and I live in Montreal, Canada. I've been lurking on this list for a couple of years and this is my first post. I first saw Richard with Joan Baez so my introduction to his music was 'Next Best Western' and the Baez covers. I immediately marked him down as someone I must further investigate I now have all four albums and have seen several more performances; last September, three shows in four days! I see the red that comes out gray as being from red eyes, likely from crying. Fits well with the rest of the verse. It is the only hint of the character's true emotion that I can find in the song. It also makes clear to me its sarcastic nature. Brilliant wordplay and guitar make this song a masterpiece, but only average for Richard's oeuvre. Steve ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 08:06:13 -0500 (EST) From: Evan Gordon Subject: [RS] SOTW I like playing this song when I perform. My favorite line is "I was amazed to think that you/would take the candy with you too" And since Halloween is tommorow, I'm smiling about it now... I just have this image of this poor guy sitting at home in his now somwhat bare apartment, thinking about all the kids outside and he can't give them candy because she took all of it! Oh well... Have a happy Halloween... - -Evan PS-This was also the first Richard song I heard, on "When October Goes" Evan A. Gordon Folksinger/Software Engineer egordon99@earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~egordon99/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 08:19:02 -0500 From: Roxylee Subject: [RS] AYHN " And I've always wondered what the line "What turns out gray is really red" means." My interpretation is that it looks like (the film representing what others see) the relationship has simply turned dull and uncaring, but in reality, the writer is very angry. He is mostly trying to hold it all in. Yes, he smashed her pumpkin on the floor, but no one else was around to see it. Roxy ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 06:46:06 -0800 (PST) From: Deb Woodell Subject: Re: [RS] SOTW: Are You Happy Now? < And I've always wondered what the line "What > turns out gray is > really red" means. > ...I always figured it was just a red, rage-filled face. I agree, it is a terrific song. I always think she never found happiness with "whats-his-name," and that perhaps he is in fact singing something similar about the Thanksgiving turkey. Deb ===== The next time you think you're perfect, try walking on water __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf! It's FREE. http://im.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 10:08:25 EST From: FISH1994@aol.com Subject: [RS] Re: shindell-list-digest V2 #308 Yes, when I first heard this song, I thought he was gonna pull the trigger......but then again, it is Halloween.....maybe just a little makeup to "scare" her a bit........ My daughter did a black and white film one time for TV production class, and she was the crime victim........I said to her, geez, it's pretty unsettling seeing you lying there on the ground with blood coming out of your mouth, and her response was.......don't worry, Mom, it's only chocolate syrup........ I guess that's what got me thinking, ha, maybe he just made a pretend suicide pic for his ex...................a morbid little joke on his part. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 15:31:47 GMT From: "Adam Watson" Subject: [RS] SOTW: Are You Happy Now? So here is my chance to introduce myself...I'm Adam, a college student in Missouri. Believe it or not, Are You Happy Now? was also the first song by Richard I heard (second was Kenworth of my Dreams) So about six months later I purchased all his CDs but Somewhere Near Paterson as it wasn't out yet. The song that moves me most right is "The Weather" on Reunion Hill, my favorite album. I've only seen Richard once, he doesn't make it to Missouri often, but I saw him in St. Louis last year, and I'm only about 3 hours from his Lawrence, KS show in Nov. <> I never thought of anything but a sad man with a red, tear-streaked face, feeling sorry for himself as he took the picture. Poor guy can't even use trick-or-treaters to distract his mind from the pain he feels! _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 11:27:04 EST From: "Gene Frey" Subject: [RS] Adam is my new best friend, and SOTW Hey you guys, I'd like to welcome Adam, and congratulate him on his good taste. Anyone who likes 'The Weather' must be an all-around good guy. By the way, Adam, Richard will be singing 'The Weather' live for the first time ever on February 2, 2001 at the Outpost in the Burbs in New Jersey. I wish. My take on 'what comes out gray is really red' - I have to partly agree with Tom that it's a metaphor for suicide, but, in the Halloween tradition, it's just for a fright, not for real. To Ron G.'s point regarding the difference between AYHN and most of the rest of Sparrows Point - I just happened to listen to this CD on the way to work this morning, not knowing about this thread, and the emotional roller coaster of the track 4-5-6 sequence (Sparrows Point, Kenworth, and Fleur de Lis) blew me away, as it does every time. That's the way life is, and I guess that's why people cry at weddings and laugh at wakes. In general, though, this CD makes me want to lie down in a dark room for a while. Gene F. _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 11:36:11 -0800 From: "Brandy Schaffels" Subject: [RS] what comes out gray I always thought it meant his eyes were red from crying. Brandy (back from a long diappearing act) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 16:41:46 -0500 From: "Dupas, Edward (E.M.)" Subject: RE: [RS] SOTW: Are You Happy Now? At first I hadn't much use for this song, but have grown to love it more as the years have gone by. Also, I began to appreciate it more when I ceased viewing it as a literal Halloween breakup and more of an allegory for something else. In my interpretation it is not really Halloween at all, but just a horrific night that is likened to Halloween. The children coming to the door could represent his many different emotions that are plaguing him, he is trying to keep them at bay but she has left him with no means of doing so (no candy?). He is tormented all night, unable to sleep and in the morning he realizes that all their memories have now been tarnished forever, vandalized by a love gone bad, perfect for the Halloween imagery: I sat all night and now it's dawn and I cannot believe my eyes there's garbage strewn across the lawn where we once stared up at the sky streams of paper fill the trees that hovered over you and me shaving cream covers the car that we picked up in Baltimore Each item represents what would be a precious memory of the happy couple, now reduced to bitterness and spite...ain't love grand! Let the crucifixion begin, and Happy Halloween! ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 14:13:55 -0800 (PST) From: Janet Cinelli Subject: Re: [RS] what comes out gray I always thought he was sticking out his tongue!!! Because he took a "photograph for you", it kinda goes with the playfulness of the song. I love that song, it's so funny! Janet - --- Brandy Schaffels wrote: > I always thought it meant his eyes were red from > crying. > > Brandy > (back from a long diappearing act) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf! It's FREE. http://im.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ End of shindell-list-digest V2 #309 ***********************************