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Subject: shindell-list-digest V2 #226
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shindell-list-digest     Tuesday, August 29 2000     Volume 02 : Number 226



                               Today's Subjects:
                               -----------------
  Re: [RS] calling the moon                                   [TRNMT@aol.com]
  [RS] I am happy now that this list is as cool as it is.  ["Norman A. Johns]
  Re: [RS] Regrets? I've had a few...    [patrick t power <ptpower@juno.com>]
  Re: [RS] I am happy now that this list is as cool as it is.  [patrick t po]
  Re: [RS] I am happy now that this list is as cool as it is.  [patrick t po]
  Re: [RS] Was Calling the Moon - Dar's Music               [HEYJC01@aol.com]
  Re: [RS] Regrets? I've had a few...     [Jeff Gilson <jgilson@javanet.com>]
  [RS] Apology                 ["Norman A. Johnson" <njohnson@ent.umass.edu>]
  [RS] Mondegreen World.                                  [Rongrittz@aol.com]
  [RS] Fox Pix                             ["Dave McKay" <dgmckay@cwcom.net>]
  [RS] Mondegreens near Paterson?  ["Norman A. Johnson" <njohnson@ent.umass.]
  Re: [RS] Mondegreen World.             [patrick t power <ptpower@juno.com>]
  Re: [RS] Mondegreens near Paterson?  ["REBECCA LAY" <rlay@email.smith.edu>]
  Re: [RS] More Wisteria; Quisp and Quake again           [Rongrittz@aol.com]
  Re: [RS] Mondegreens near Paterson?                     [Rongrittz@aol.com]
  Re: [RS] Was Calling the Moon - Dar's Music             [Rongrittz@aol.com]

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 16:40:17 EDT
From: TRNMT@aol.com
Subject: Re: [RS] calling the moon

In a message dated 8/28/00 9:47:40 AM Eastern Daylight Time, 
Katrin.Uhl@t-online.de writes:

<< I finally got my Green World in the mail this morning and 
 am on my third listen. Wow, calling the moon is a completely
 different song when Dar sings it. Melody-wise I prefer Richard's
 version, I haven't decided yet as far as the lyrics go. 
 Now back to Wisteria...
  >>
I think the lyrics are somewhat clearer (less ambiguous), and the additional 
lines don't detract from the song in Dar's version.  I still prefer 
Richard's, and, oddly enough, my daughter, who claims to not like RS at all, 
likes his version better, too!

there is still hope...
NT

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 17:39:14 -0400
From: "Norman A. Johnson" <njohnson@ent.umass.edu>
Subject: [RS] I am happy now that this list is as cool as it is.

I'm glad that we can have serious discussions about music and musicians,
without name calling and flames (or at least keep them to a minimum). 

Dar and Richard are both exceptional songwriters. Sometimes I think Richard
is the better writer, sometimes I think Dar is. Their styles are like their
versions of "Calling the Moon", similar enough that comparisons are bound
to be made, and sufficiently different that comparisons are difficult. Does
that make sense?

To me, what I love about their "Calling the Moon" versions boil down to two
lines. I love how Richard sings "as Tennessee wandered in moth-eaten
robes". I can't express it in words why I do but I do. What I love about
Dar's version is the "missing" line "Cause I know what it's worth to tug at
the seeds and illumine the earth". 

Norman, thankful that he doesn't have to chose.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 17:54:19 -0700
From: patrick t power <ptpower@juno.com>
Subject: Re: [RS] Regrets? I've had a few...

Gene sighed:

<<Maybe I'll have to start using those damned little smiley faces after
all.>>

No, Gene!! Don't do it . . . PLEASE don't do it!!!!!

Pat

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 18:06:46 -0700
From: patrick t power <ptpower@juno.com>
Subject: Re: [RS] I am happy now that this list is as cool as it is.

Norman wrote:

<<What I love about Dar's version is the "missing" line "Cause I know
what it's worth to tug at the seeds and illumine the earth".>>

For a second there, I thought I had missed something . . .

I checked Dar's lyric booklet and it's "seas" . . . not seeds. (phew!!)

Pat

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 18:08:44 -0700
From: patrick t power <ptpower@juno.com>
Subject: Re: [RS] I am happy now that this list is as cool as it is.

"I am happy now that this list is as cool as it is."
Oh, you clever boy!!
ptp

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 18:19:52 EDT
From: HEYJC01@aol.com
Subject: Re: [RS] Was Calling the Moon - Dar's Music

"Oh, you must have "I Have No History" and "All My Heroes Are Dead," because
those are the only two Dar albums I haven't heard and I know the ones I have
don't have shallow lyrics."

Actually, the Dar albums I have are "The Honesty Room" and "Mortal City", 
both of which I dont care for musically at all. IMHO, her songs possess 
little that I would call a melody, and her lyrics are often rambling and 
definately verbose.  I'll take Richard or Lucy over her any day of the week.
Jeff

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 18:28:37 -0400
From: Jeff Gilson <jgilson@javanet.com>
Subject: Re: [RS] Regrets? I've had a few...

At 05:54 PM 08/29/2000 -0700, you wrote:
>Gene sighed:
>
><<Maybe I'll have to start using those damned little smiley faces after
>all.>>
>
>No, Gene!! Don't do it . . . PLEASE don't do it!!!!!

Yeah, it's a sickness. :-}

You see, I can't stop. :-}

'later, :-}
jeff. :-}


- --
I can find a small apartment where a struggling artist died
And pretend because I pay the rent I know that pain inside
                 --Dar Williams

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 18:27:34 -0400
From: "Norman A. Johnson" <njohnson@ent.umass.edu>
Subject: [RS] Apology

OOOPS. That was supposed to go to Pat alone. Sorry.


Norman

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 19:26:26 EDT
From: Rongrittz@aol.com
Subject: [RS] Mondegreen World.

<< I checked Dar's lyric booklet and it's "seas" . . . not seeds. >>

See, I always thought it was . . .

" . . . to tug at the seeds, and the loam, and the earth."

. . . which always made sense to me.

Go figure.

RG

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2000 00:37:39 +0100
From: "Dave McKay" <dgmckay@cwcom.net>
Subject: [RS] Fox Pix

Charlie responded:
> > So, will CFox run an ad in Acoustic Guitar with Richard's photo
someday,
> > like they did with Dave and Tracy?  Inquiring minds want to know.
=)
>
> Well, they will once they get a photo of Richard with a C Fox
guitar. That's
> supposed to happen during RS's US tourdates in Sept., so I'd guess
> early-to-mid next year for the ad to run...

I got photos of Richard with a C Fox guitar, Charlie, from
Makor-with-Lucy and Falcon Ridge! :-)

And I wouldn't charge *much* for you to use them! :-p

Dave.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 19:32:20 -0400
From: "Norman A. Johnson" <njohnson@ent.umass.edu>
Subject: [RS] Mondegreens near Paterson?

I've had several mondegreens for THE GREEN WORLD, including some which I
think were deliberate on Dar's part. I still hear "I wasn't worth the
pain...." even though I know she wrote "it".

But outside of Richard's son's "Hey Duck" on "Confession", I can't think of
any good mondegreens for SNP. Anyone have any?

Norman

PS- My "apology" post was about a post that never did show up on the list
because I had written the dreaded "uns" word-- no, I was not threatening to
leave this list nor Dar-list but another. The identity of that other list
will remain another mystery.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 19:38:14 -0700
From: patrick t power <ptpower@juno.com>
Subject: Re: [RS] Mondegreen World.

"Mondegreen World"

Heh-heh! Good one, Ron!!

I was just thinking . . . just as the list was pulled back to Richard
(with "Wisteria") from Dave Carter and Tracy Grammer, along comes this
Dar Williams hack to take over the list!!!

Pat (who, if anyone believes for a *minute* that I think Dar is a hack,
just might have to resort to smiley-faces!! Please, please, PLEASE don't
make me do it!!)

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 19:51:16 -0400
From: "REBECCA LAY" <rlay@email.smith.edu>
Subject: Re: [RS] Mondegreens near Paterson?

Well, *I* don't have any Mondegreens for SNP, but I have a friend who insists on singing "Vegan Republicans, Weekend Militiamen"  
She says she likes it better that way.  Go figure.
(no smiley faces here! heh heh...)
- --Rebecca

>>> njohnson@ent.umass.edu 08/29/00 19:43 PM >>>
I've had several mondegreens for THE GREEN WORLD, including some which I
think were deliberate on Dar's part. I still hear "I wasn't worth the
pain...." even though I know she wrote "it".

But outside of Richard's son's "Hey Duck" on "Confession", I can't think of
any good mondegreens for SNP. Anyone have any?

Norman

PS- My "apology" post was about a post that never did show up on the list
because I had written the dreaded "uns" word-- no, I was not threatening to
leave this list nor Dar-list but another. The identity of that other list
will remain another mystery.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 19:53:00 EDT
From: Rongrittz@aol.com
Subject: Re: [RS] More Wisteria; Quisp and Quake again

<< The other night my partner and I were talking music and songwriters over 
dinner and she says, "I think Richard Shindell is a much better songwriter 
than Dar Williams."  I looked her straight in the eye and said, "It's a damn 
good thing we live a long way from Brooklyn." >>

That sound you hear is sharon preparing to kick your ass from here to eastern 
Long Island.  <insert smiley here>

RG

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 20:11:49 EDT
From: Rongrittz@aol.com
Subject: Re: [RS] Mondegreens near Paterson?

<< But outside of Richard's son's "Hey Duck" on "Confession", I can't think 
of any good mondegreens for SNP. Anyone have any? >>

The only lines I misheard until I read the lyrics were:

"Maybe we'll be certain" instead of "Maybe will be certain" (Spring), and 
"They all knew a station was thanking" instead of "The all-news station was 
thanking" (Transit).

I think the fact that Richard e-nun-ci-ates as well as he does -- plus the 
fact that his voice is rarely buried under layers of, oh, digeridoo -- keeps 
us from having too many classic RS mondegreens.

RG

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 21:24:03 EDT
From: Rongrittz@aol.com
Subject: Re: [RS] Was Calling the Moon - Dar's Music

>> Well if you didn't "get" her other albums you will like this one even 
less! <<

Well, it all depends which "other albums" you're talking about.  For people 
who didn't "get" a CD like "The Honesty Room" (or much of "Mortal City") 
because it was too "folky," and who tend to like the more "produced" stuff, I 
think the new one will fit the bill just perfectly.  I think it's those of us 
who were there in the very beginning, when Dar was an Actual Folksinger, are 
the ones who are "getting" her less and less as each CD progresses, as she 
gets closer and closer to Jewel territory.  IMHO, of course.  

>> Actually, I think that I just put my finger on an important difference 
between Richard and Dar. I think Dar has an agenda. I  don't really sense one 
with Richard.  Which is not a criticism of Richard. I don't need him to have 
an agenda. Does anyone else sense a running theme with him? <<

I'm not sure what Dar's agenda is/was, other than to start speaking to a 
wider audience than Us Folkies.  Which she's made a great effort to do.  
Richard's "agenda," if there is one, seems to be to stay true to his roots.  
So the idea of a "running theme" is interesting.  I don't necessarily sense 
one from album to album, and it makes me wonder where Richard's headed, 
musically.  None of the songs on any of his albums (except, perhaps, 
"Transit" or "Confession") would be WILDLY out of place on any of his other 
albums.  Dar's made a conscious decision to change, to grow, to diversify.  
Does Richard needs to do that, and if so, in what direction?

I mean, I'm happy to have him pull a James Taylor and make albums that don't 
really break new ground over and over for the rest of his life . . . keep 
treating us to some terrific period pieces, a handful of compelling character 
studies, some well-chosen covers, etc.  Or he could walk away from the music 
that made me love him in the first place, which would turn him into, oh, Dan 
Fogelberg.  It'll be interesting to see what the time in Argentina will do to 
his writing style.

>> P.S. -note to all future artists: if you write a new song, whatever you do 
don't let Richard record it first. I love Dar (obviously) but I have the 
feeling the Richard understands the soul of that song better than Dar.  <<

Amen.  When I first heard Dar do the song a few years ago, it made absolutely 
zero impression on me.  Zero. Nein. Nada. Zilch.  So how did it become my 
favorite song on SNP?  Damned if I know.  But it sure seems to me that in 
Richard's hands, it's an anthem.  In Dar's hands it's . . . a nice song.

RG

------------------------------

End of shindell-list-digest V2 #226
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