From: owner-shindell-list-digest@smoe.org (shindell-list-digest) To: shindell-list-digest@smoe.org Subject: shindell-list-digest V2 #220 Reply-To: shindell-list@smoe.org Sender: owner-shindell-list-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-shindell-list-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk shindell-list-digest Monday, August 28 2000 Volume 02 : Number 220 Today's Subjects: ----------------- RE: [RS] Wisteria (not short) [Katrin.Uhl@t-online.de (Katrin Uhl)] Re: [RS] Wisteria (not short) [Rongrittz@aol.com] [RS] The Party of the First Part [Gf212121@aol.com] [RS] calling the moon [Katrin.Uhl@t-online.de (Katrin Uhl)] [RS] Wisteria re-redux [Gf212121@aol.com] [RS] Brown Nosing [RockinRonD@aol.com] [RS] C Fox ad? ["Young/Hunter Mgt." ] [RS] Silent Green [RockinRonD@aol.com] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2000 11:15:24 +0200 From: Katrin.Uhl@t-online.de (Katrin Uhl) Subject: RE: [RS] Wisteria (not short) You know, it's funny. Wisteria wasn't necesarrily the song that grabbed me the most when I listened to SNP the first few times. Maybe it was this side in me that tries to stay away from settling down and getting attached too much, since I have been on the move a lot the last years, don't know. But as I have listened to it countless times by now and reread the lyrics - it just is a really touching song. And it evokes two different kind of memories / emotions for me: "But how could they just cut it down and leave not a trace?" I spent most of my childhood and teenage years in a house with a huge garden where we would have every fruit and vegetable one could think of (benefit of growing up out in the country, though only in retrospect :-) ) and many trees that we had planted when we first moved in when I was 7. Unfortunately my parents and I had different concepts of how the perfect garden had to look like, I wanted it all full of little paths and large trees and bushes and places to hide or sit and read where nobody would see you. They however wanted it nice and orderly and with flowers everywhere and nothing putting too much shade on the vegetable patches. In third grade my teacher gave every student three chestnuts to plant. They grew into lovely small trees and over the time we compromised on keeping one of them. After moving out of my parents' place and coming back only 3 or 4 times a year I started to notice that every time I returned they seemed to have cut down another tree. "It grew to big". I always thought that was a really stupid excuse, since obviously you had to know that when you first planted them. But the "no shade for the veggies-plan" won and over the years they have cut down many of those lovely trees, culminating in the two huge birch trees we had in front of the house ("they drew too much water away from the other plants"). That I could have handled. But then one day I came back and they had cut down my chestnut tree witout asking me. I got really upset because I had gotten really attached to it, I thought it was a lovely idea from my old teacher back then to give us something to remember our childhood with. I still hold that against them once in while. "Give me a moment more To walk through those rooms again To walk through through that door" What comes to my mind as well when listening to that song is how it's so often only in retrospect that you notice how attached you have gotten to places, be it the house you lived in or the place as such and the stories that make it "your place". "Home" for me is usually not attached to certain walls and rooms, it's the feeling I get from a place I live in, the city and its people and its surrounding I mean. I love being on the move a lot and I value the chances I had to live in different places and countries, but as I am getting ready to pack my things and move again for the second time within a year I feel this wish creeping up on me from behind to finally get somewhere and stay, at least for a longer while. I suppose Wisteria will be one of those songs that won't be easy to listen to right after I moved (along with Ellis Paul's Take me Down). This is one of those songs that only Richard could have written. Had somebody played it for me on the guitar without saying who wrote it - my guess would have been Richard, but I can't put my finger on it why. Alright, I'll shut up now and get more coffee, have a great day everyone, Katrin ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2000 06:55:13 EDT From: Rongrittz@aol.com Subject: Re: [RS] Wisteria (not short) >> This is one of those songs that only Richard could have written. Had somebody played it for me on the guitar without saying who wrote it - my guess would have been Richard, but I can't put my finger on it why. << I know exactly what you mean, and it's an interesting thought . . . it's almost like there's such a thing as a "Richard Shindell song" . . . even if he didn't write it. I just read an interview with Dar in which she says "I learned early on that the battle I have to do now is to keep that sense of intrigue alive. Sometimes I worry that I'm getting good at writing a Dar Williams song." While that might explain why she made her departure into the cosmic/mysterious on her new CD, it does make me think about what Katrin said about pegging a song as a "Richard song" upon first listen. I had that experience with "Shades of Black, Shades of Blue." I'd been lucky enough to hear a tape of Richard's recording of it about three months before the CD came out, and I could SWEAR he'd written the song. Heck, to this day, I'm not convinced he didn't. ;-) Of course, I'm also not convinced that he didn't write "The Wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald" either, other than the fact that in Richard's hands, the protagonist would probably have been ON the ship. Come to think of it (I know, I'm all over this place with this post), Richard rarely writes songs in the third person. He IS Mary Magdalene. He IS the Civil War widow. He IS the fugitive in "May." He IS the INS interrogator. He IS the truck driver, the little drummer boy, the death row convict, the serial rapist, the man on the bridge with lust in his heart, the courier. Oh well, just musing . . . RG ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2000 09:28:02 EDT From: Gf212121@aol.com Subject: [RS] The Party of the First Part Hey you guys, Ron G. wrote: << Come to think of it,Richard rarely writes songs in the third person >> How true. In addition, while he makes us believe that he is the fugitive, the widow, etc., it is rare the first person in his songs is actually Richard himself. I think it's revealing that of the three songs on SNP that are not character studies (My Love Will Follow You, Wisteria, and Calling the Moon), two of them are covers. Only Wisteria can be interpreted as Richard being Richard, in his own words. As far as the 'third person' goes, even in The Grocers' Broom, primarily in the third person, he can't resist speaking in the voice of the protagonist. More importantly, to me, the best of his songs wrap me up to the point where I, for a brief moment, become the fugitive, the widow, or the guy on the bridge. Gene F. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2000 15:40:10 +0200 From: Katrin.Uhl@t-online.de (Katrin Uhl) Subject: [RS] calling the moon I finally got my Green World in the mail this morning and am on my third listen. Wow, calling the moon is a completely different song when Dar sings it. Melody-wise I prefer Richard's version, I haven't decided yet as far as the lyrics go. Now back to Wisteria... Katrin - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ~ I'm so sick of forgetting myself to remember who I am ~ Dar Williams ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2000 09:57:58 EDT From: Gf212121@aol.com Subject: [RS] Wisteria re-redux Hey you guys, Ron G. wrote: << One of my favorite parts of the song is how "walk through those rooms again" in the first verse becomes "walk through those *dreams* again" in the last verse. Nice curveball there, Ricardo. >> And, how 'is blooming around those eaves' becomes 'still blooms all around those eaves' in the final chorus. This suggests a sense of passage, or resignation, or finality. I see it as the memory being filed away, with the blooming vine the image to be kept permanently. Gene F. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2000 10:00:06 EDT From: RockinRonD@aol.com Subject: [RS] Brown Nosing In a message dated 8/27/2000 7:30:56 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Rebecca wrote re: Greg Brown CD's to beginw ith: << Recommended greg albums from me would be (in no particular order, since I love them all) The Poet Game, Slant 6 Mind, or his newest, Covenant. >> I would quickly add "The Dream Cafe" to this list, since it is perhaps Greg's most acoustic record. I would also avoid "One Night" because it is a poor representation of the man's genius IMHO. "Covenant" is a good record, but a little more demanding on the listener. Ron ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2000 10:14:33 -0400 From: "Young/Hunter Mgt." Subject: [RS] C Fox ad? > So, will CFox run an ad in Acoustic Guitar with Richard's photo someday, > like they did with Dave and Tracy? Inquiring minds want to know. =) > > j a c Well, they will once they get a photo of Richard with a C Fox guitar. That's supposed to happen during RS's US tourdates in Sept., so I'd guess early-to-mid next year for the ad to run... - -- Details Hunter ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2000 10:12:46 EDT From: RockinRonD@aol.com Subject: [RS] Silent Green In a message dated 8/27/2000 7:30:56 PM Eastern Daylight Time, RonG offers food for thought: <'m certainly not turning this into a Dar versus Richard thing, but it simply served to remind me why his (RS) music is so important to me, and why Dar is slowly slipping off my radar screen. "The Babysitter's Here" spoke to me. "The Great Unknown" spoke to me. "You're Aging Well" spoke to me. But most of "The Green World" is too much work, and although I do enjoy listening to it, I don't identify with any of it.>> Also interesting. I'd have to say that in many ways, my reaction to TGW is similar. There is little doubt that it is a masterpiece of a record, perhaps Dar's best in terms of literary quality. But I relate to so little of it. It is, of course, a hugely personal work, highly introspective as well, and has definitely struck a responsive chord in the collective heart of DarListers in general. But as a man in his late 40's, virtually none of the songs speak to me. I still am listening to it (I've yet to write my review) and I still love it...but it indeed takes a great deal of work deciphering some of the images and metaphors, which can be distracting at times. I've never really experienced this with her first two records. With EOTS, it was pretty easy to decide the songs you wanted to hear and those to just skipover. I don't skip over anything on TGW, but the Yoko Ono song is not a tune I'm apt to ever learn to play myself, that's for sure. On the other hand, I'd love to be able to play and perform every song Richard has ever written. Well, almost. Ron ------------------------------ End of shindell-list-digest V2 #220 ***********************************