From: owner-shindell-list-digest@smoe.org (shindell-list-digest) To: shindell-list-digest@smoe.org Subject: shindell-list-digest V12 #370 Reply-To: shindell-list@smoe.org Sender: owner-shindell-list-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-shindell-list-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk shindell-list-digest Saturday, February 9 2013 Volume 12 : Number 370 Today's Subjects: ----------------- [RS] More musings on "Juggler Out in Traffic" [Vanessa Wills ] Re: [RS] Much Madness Round One continues. [Vanessa Wills ] [RS] Much Madness Round One Vol Two [Gene Frey ] Re: [RS] Sparrows Point, the song. ["cvz" ] Re: [RS] Much Madness Round One continues [Beth DeSombre ] Re: [RS] Much Madness Round two ["Michael & Linda Marmer" ] [RS] Reversal of Fortune... [Carol Love ] Re: [RS] Much Madness Round One continues ["Kevin B. Pease" ] Re: [RS] Much Madness Round One continues. ["Michael & Linda Marmer" ] Re: [RS] Sparrows Point, the song. [] Re: [RS] Much Madness Round One continues. [CLAIRE LATHAM ] [RS] Re: Sparrow's Point and Reunion Hill [John McDonnell ] Re: [RS] Re: Sparrow's Point and Reunion Hill [] Re: [RS] Re: Sparrow's Point and Reunion Hill [gina ] Re: [RS] Much Madness Round One continues. [Carol Love ] Re: [RS] Sparrows Point, the song. [Carol Love ] Re: [RS] Much Madness Round One continues. [] [RS] That pivotal... [Pete Jameson ] [RS] You Stay Here [Bart Gallagher ] [RS] Re: Much Madness, Round One [Dave Hoppenrath ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 9 Feb 2013 11:35:00 -0500 From: Vanessa Wills Subject: [RS] More musings on "Juggler Out in Traffic" I always heard "Juggler" as the juggler's lament to one, single person, and that's how I was thinking about it last night when I wrote my More Madness comments praising it. But the more I think about it, I'm pretty close to thinking that's only one part of the picture and probably a very small part. (And actually, I'm about 25% convinced it might be totally wrong.) Now, I think the juggler's speaking to the world, to all the people he encounters. What the juggler is saying, and the craft he is practicing, is an attempt to break out of his own alienation in a bigger and more profound way. It could be about any performer's struggle to reach out and connect with his audience and to find recognition and realization in the viewer's/hearer's appreciation of his work. Constantly trying to outdo himself, to take bigger personal and artistic risks (like switching from bowling pins to fire), but never really feeling that his effort/talent/skill/daring is fully rewarded, requited, or recognized in the way he wants or needs. Reading it this way also better integrates the contrast I mentioned between the juggler's extremely public persona and his inner alienation. He's vulnerable, exposed, out there in traffic, seemingly stuck in this cycle trying to break through and make a real connection, and "you", The Public, are sealed away in your car, rolling the window up and driving out of the scene once the light turns green. Adding to the themes of "stuck-ness" and distance, the very central image of juggling which is objects that orbit around one another but never touch, repetitively on and on. Also the song's images of endless circularity ("atoms round an empty sun", "a centrifuge, a cyclotron") describe objects that are kept apart by the very same forces that lock them in a pattern together. I think this more abstract reading of "Juggler" is borne out by the line "I'd go from car to car/with my jester's cap in hand/when I tried to catch your eye/you'd always look away". I think now that the "you" is a generic descriptor for the World that never fully responds to or engages with the part of himself that a performer reveals when he practices his art. Having the occasion to think carefully about this song is making me love it even more. It's just heartbreaking and gorgeous. - --Vanessa ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 9 Feb 2013 11:57:31 -0500 From: Carol Love Subject: Re: [RS] trim tabbing Pete wrote: > Carol, > > My dad, too, had his career altered by the course of history -- .......Pete, I wish we didn't live so far apart. You seem to really "grok" me. Now I see we don't only just love RS, but we share a love for the Zen of the Dude. (I married El Duderino minus the pot smoking....) Oh well, we'll always have the Shindell list. :-) And thanks for the toast to my Da. He's good people. *Ciao!* ....Carol ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 9 Feb 2013 09:51:03 -0500 From: Vanessa Wills Subject: Re: [RS] Much Madness Round One continues. [I sincerely apologize for sending this out twice but I just can't stand the bizarre way my formatting came out the first time around. It seems to make what I wrote basically incomprehensible. The numbering is screwed up, the lines broke in a bizarre way, and half of my punctuation was lost. So I beg your indulgence as I take a second crack at sending this out so that it's legible. I normally wouldn't, but well, I kind of wrote a *lot* and it would be nice if anyone could actually read it!] 1. *MAY* v. Bye Bye I LOVE "MAY". It is gripping, cinematic, urgent, and tragic. Richard sounds incredible on the RH recording and as Norman said, it is one of the most intense songs Richard has ever written or performed. (Gina, I cannot wait for you to get your hands on the Reunion Hill album!!) That being said, for me this was definitely *not* a "no contest" match-up, because I LOVE "BYE BYE", TOO. First off, it has a soft place in my heart because I was there when Richard first debuted this song in front of an audience. He'd been invited to a Beatles sing-along on the FRFF Workshop Stage. Everyone else dutifully sang their Beatles cover and Richard in fine contrarian form played "Bye Bye". People in the audience around me were sort of grumbly and of course I was on Cloud Nine. New RS music! Ahem. As I was saying. I also love that this is a response to a Beatles song *and* it's also a great song about the writing process, how as an author you might feel you have the power to have characters do whatever you want, but you quickly realize that the characters and the story have their own truth and your work is to tell it. I really think it's a beautiful and intriguing song. Actually, I almost voted for it over "May" but I had to go for the one that both grabs my heart and breaks it in such a beautiful way. 2. *ARROWHEAD* v. Beyond the Iron Gate For me, this one is a much easier call. "Beyond the Iron Gate" is a lovely song and would have beaten out "Mavis" or "Parasol Ants". It just has the bad luck here of going against a real heavyweight. "Arrowhead" is a signature song in Richard's repertoire for damn good reason. The jaunty rhythm, the sympathetic character of the boy soldier, the way Richard inhabits that character so fully and describes his situation in rich and colorful detail as though he were in it himself, the way the character's sense of his own danger heightens with each verse until he finally resorts to desertion... heck, Richard packs more into a four minute song than some people do into a whole book. 3. *JUGGLER OUT IN TRAFFIC* v. Blue Divide "Juggler Out in Traffic" is one of my favorite songs, which means "Blue Divide" kinda gets the shaft since it's actually a cute song that I really like. I just went back and listened to it again for probably the first time in years to be sure I didn't want to vote for it instead of "Juggler"! It's just such a charming and funny-sad song. :) And a genius way to close out an album. But as I said, "Juggler" is one of my personal favorites. There's something about the hypnotic quality of the melody and the lyrics with their quiet, desperate devotion to a person who'll never reward the lengths this character has gone to in order to impress. I mean, seriously, he's switched from bowling pins to *fire* and she still can't give him the time of day. Plus, I just love the line, "One then two then three then one/A centrifuge, a cyclotron", and that whole final verse with its awesome poetic description of a juggling act. And I love the contrast of this very public persona, literally "out in traffic", totally exposed, and then this secret, alienated, tragic inner life. I just find "Juggler" totally devastating. It pulls you into its own universe, and drops you down right inside the pain and loneliness of its central character. I always find myself having to snap myself out of this song when it's finally over. I don't even know if I can really do full justice to how much I love this song. 4. *KENWORTH OF MY DREAMS* v. The Grocer's Broom I've always heard "Kenworth" as really being a song about starting out on the easy and lucrative path of making folk music, and more broadly, about striking out on one's own to follow any path that is difficult and not especially materially rewarding, but close to one's heart. I love it. 5. *THE THINGS THAT I HAVE SEEN* v. Gray Green I really like "Gray Green" quite a bit. But "The Things That I Have Seen" is the better and more interesting song of the two. 6. *LAZY* v. Money for Floods I love "Lazy". LOVE IT!!! It is so much fun to listen to, so much fun to sing, and generally just so awesome and adorable. In fact I am so glad this activity has made me go back and listen to "Lazy" for the first time in years. (I really don't pull out "Blue Divide" nearly often enough, clearly.) 7. *MEMORY OF YOU* v. The Weather I had been seeing Richard play for years before I finally saw him do "Memory of You" live and it was one of the most lovely and memorable experiences of my life to finally hear and see him play this song that I love live on stage. "Memory of You" is, for me, quintessential Shindell, combining mystery and foreignness with the emotional familiar. 8. *SPRING* v. The Courier It's about the joy of spring, the rhythms of life... it's sexy and splendidly vital. And gosh, do I love that line, "And opening your eyes you will surrender/To the light that fills the room". For years, I have always played this song on the first official day of spring. What better way to usher in that time of energy and awakening? 9. *CANCION SENCILLA* v. Smiling "Cancion Sencilla" always brings a smile to my face. It's a really cute and sweet love song, and who knew conjugating verbs could be so poetic? 10. *GETHSEMANI GOODBYE* v. Sparrows Point Gethsemani Goodbye --in its original, Richard-sung version!!--is one heck of a way to say "mea culpa". I love the melody, too. Also, in this song Richard proves that he could literally sing Google Maps directions and make it sound good. 11. *CHE GUEVARA T-SHIRT* v. Castaway I like "Castaway" but it's totally outmatched by "Che Guevara T-Shirt". 12. *NORA* v. The Island Oh, dear, this is also a line-up of two favorites. At first I was going to go with "Nora", then I switched to "The Island", then I went back and listened to "The Island" again. Then I listened to "Nora" again and I just couldn't not vote for it. "Nora" is SO achingly and hauntingly beautiful. But I feel like "The Island" sometimes gets undersold. There is this creeping sense of dread and loss there that is really intriguing. I remember very clearly I first heard this song it was one summer at Concerts Under The Stars in Upper Merion just outside Philly. It made such an impression on me right away. But "Nora" wins for reasons we've discussed on this list many times over the years. I find myself asking so many questions and wanting to know more about Nora and about the two men hunched on their bar stools. I want to read the play Nora wrote about Heloise! It is just such an intriguing song that contains its own universe. It's definitely the winner here. 'Nessa out! ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 9 Feb 2013 12:01:09 -0500 From: Carol Love Subject: [RS] Pete Made Me Think... So, it turns out that both Pete and I love the philosophy of "The Big Lebowski". I already know that Evil Ron loves Eddie Izzard like I do. Right now might not be the best time with the intense song voting, but I think it would be interesting for us to list our top favorite movies, comedians, TV shows, blah blah, and see how many times we coincide. At the end of any of my big exams the last question is, "Who would Mrs. Love pay $500 to be in the front row of their concert???" The correct answer is Bruce Springsteen. Like Ron said, Dog is in the details. :-) ......Carol ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 9 Feb 2013 08:51:40 -0500 From: Gene Frey Subject: [RS] Much Madness Round One Vol Two Hey you guys, 1. May Bye Bye May wins, and the Fast Folk version with the two extra half-verses wins overall. We were there when Richard debuted Bye Bye at the Beatles workshop at FRFF, and I like the idea and the execution, but May is at the near pantheon-level of Shindell for me. 2. Arrowhead Beyond the Iron Gate Arrowhead, another no-chorus, lost-my-place song, but the boy is one of my favorite of Richard's characters. 3. Juggler Out in Traffic Blue Divide Blue Divide. I love the imagery, and it has two of my favorite Shindell rhymes (marooned/balloon, cliff/handkerchief). Juggler is among my favorite recent Shindell songs. 4. Grocer's Broom Kenworth of my Dreams Tough call, but Kenworth, mostly because it stands out in the Shindell catalog. 5. The Things that I Have Seen Gray Green Gray Green. 6. Money for Floods Lazy Money For Floods nails its message and imagery. Check out the wonderful a cappella cover by We're About 9. 7. Memory of You The Weather Hmmm... (strokes chin, deep in thought). The Weather, but only the live version. 8. The Courier Spring The Courier, another pantheon-level song to me. Spring is really good, but this is an easy call/ 9. Cancion Sencilla Smiling Cancion Sencilla. 10. Gethsemani Goodbye Sparrows Point Sparrows Point. 1-seed wipes the court with 16-seed. After many, many listens I still feel like I'm standing in that line with William Taylor, looking at photographs. Simply brilliant. 11. Castaway Che Guevara T-Shirt Che over the one song on the near-perfect Sparrows Point that I'm even tempted to skip on occasion. 12. The Island Nora New York has been buried in snow since last Saturday. Or is it this Saturday, Ron? Another instant call for Nora, a gem of a character study. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 9 Feb 2013 07:06:15 -0500 From: "cvz" Subject: Re: [RS] Sparrows Point, the song. We call it poetic license. I think we ended up deciding that after tearing apart Whippoorwill some time ago. b But I got to wondering the other day: I've always assumed that the "three days west of Normandy" referred to the invasion of Normandy on D-Day in June of 1944. But if William Taylor was born in '24, wouldn't the reference to him being 21 be off a year, since, depending on his actual birthdate, he could only be either 19 or 20 in 1944? RG ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 9 Feb 2013 08:37:55 -0500 From: Beth DeSombre Subject: Re: [RS] Much Madness Round One continues This round did not cause any agony at all (unlike the last one). Next matchups will, I'm sure. My picks: 1. *May* Before I even knew we were voting in round 2 today I was singing this song while making breakfast. This pairing is the closest for me to a hard choice, but May humanizes the narrator and the situation is such a fantastic way, whereas Bye Bye seems more like a well-polished songwriting exercise. 2. *Arrowhead* My spouse's favorite (or 2nd favorite) RS song. I've always loved it, but appreciated it even more when I saw how much he loves it. 3.* Juggler Out in Traffic* He played this at the Passim shows this week and it reminded me (not that I'd really forgotten) how poignant the song is. But I also love that it's embedded in a quirky scenario. 4. *Kenworth of my Dreams* I have always loved this song. It has brilliant lines, a catchy melody, and is just a lot of fun to play and sing. And yet it also paints a well-developed picture of a person. 5. *Gray Green* A sweet lullaby that embedded in a place and time; specific, yet universal. 6. *Money for Floods* One of my favorites (OK, I have a lot of favorites, but still). LOVE the guitar work on this one, and the story that unfolds through the character's perspective, set in a broader social context. 7. *The Weather* Wouldn't it be entertaining if the Weather won the whole tournament? (Not that I think I should, but maybe if it did he'd play it?) 8. *The Courier* Great character sketch; interesting scenario 9.* Cancion Sencilla* You probably don't appreciate this song as much if you don't actually speak Spanish, but there's a lot of surprising nuance in it, and a song in Spanish about learning to speak Spanish is adorable. 10. *Sparrows Point * * * I've never actually liked Gethsemani Goodbye (never thought the song lived up to its title), but I was almost tempted to vote for it to make up for the World's Worst Cover video we saw earlier. Still, I like Sparrow's point a lot. 11. *Che Guevara T-Shirt* No contest here. Che is a top 10 song easily. It's that kind of character sketch with a story that the best RS songs do so well. 12. *Nora* * * I love the melody and lines from this song regularly insert themselves for no reason into my day. That's the sign of a good song. Beth Beth DeSombre www.bethdesombre.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 9 Feb 2013 10:46:43 -0500 From: Carol Love Subject: Re: [RS] Much Madness Round One continues. Peter Booth wrote: > 4. Grocer's Broom vs. Kenworth of my Dreams -- Oh no you don't! You can't > make me choose! You aren't the boss of me!! OK, fine. I'll pick.... (coin > flipped in the air) Grocer's Broom. And now I formally request that someone > else who can't choose, please select Kenworth, thereby negating my vote and > eventually leading to a dead-heat where both songs live on to the next > round. > I like the way you think, Peter... ...Carol ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 9 Feb 2013 11:38:10 -0500 From: Carol Love Subject: Re: [RS] Living Alone Theoretically, Gritz is right. For some reason I thought the two albums were "Sparrow's" and "Blue Divide". So, in my universe, I was RIGHT. :-) On Fri, Feb 8, 2013 at 7:41 PM, Pete Jameson wrote: > O Grand Poo-Bah, > > You must live alone...if you're "right all the time"... > > "I'm wrong about everything" -- John Wesley Harding > > > On Feb 8, 2013, at 7:10 PM, wrote: > > >>> "Lazy" might be a little weak, but every other song is a keeper. << > > > > Carol, hate to be anal-hyphen-retentive, but "Lazy" is neither on > "Sparrows Point" nor "Reunion Hill." > > > > I hate to be right all the time, but, well, I'm just sayin'. ;-) > > > > RG ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 09 Feb 2013 11:26:26 -0500 From: "Michael & Linda Marmer" Subject: Re: [RS] Much Madness Round two This was real hard to decide, but it is done. Mike 1. May 2. Arrowhead 3. Juggler Out in Traffic 4. Kenworth of my Dreams 5. The Things that I Have Seen 6. Money for Floods 7. Memory of You 8. Spring 9. Cancion Sencilla 10. Gethsemani Goodbye 11. Che Guevara T-Shirt 12. Nora ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 9 Feb 2013 11:21:33 -0500 From: Pete Jameson Subject: [RS] trim tabbing Carol, My dad, too, had his career altered by the course of history -- the Arab oil embargo of the 70s -- he was an automobile executive who, in the interests of keeping our family in one place for more than 3 years, "settled" in Ligonier and ended up returning to his roots as a car salesman -- very lean years for him, and a truly humbling experience, but he never complained. I frequently quote his most profound advice: "There is honour in all work." I'm reading "The Dude & the Zen Master", a conversational book by Jeff Bridges and his Zen master of many years, Bernie _______...here's a bit about being a rudder in life: "Speaking of boats, I love the term trim tabbing, which Buckminster Fuller popularized. You see, giant oceangoing tankers need a giant rudder to make them turn. But engineers discovered that it takes too much energy to turn the giant rudder. Instead, they came up with the trim tab, a tiny rudder attached to the big rudder. The little rudder turns the big rudder and the big rudder turns the ship. Budky said that we're all trim tabs. The way to turn society around is to realise that you're connected to something bigger. I like to think that you and I are both trim tabs and that we want to turn other people on to becoming trim tab s and turn the rudder a little bit, which will turn this big ship in the direction where we want to be heading." Here's to me (deceased) Da and yer Da, Pater in PA On Feb 9, 2013, at 10:16 AM, Carol Love wrote: > How many of you picture Ron cackling over his keyboard like one of > MacBeth's witches???? > > Anyway, I listened to "Grocer's Broom" today and I actually started to tear > up. I reverse my vote on the Kenworth/Grocery pairing, although "Kenworth" > is a staple for Shindell and brings in new fans. > > I starting thinking about what "Grocer's" is really about. I think it > speaks to the Wal*Martzation of America. Two cool little hardware stores > in our town died because Home Depot came in. Small bookstores are dying > left and right because we can now order books at home in our underwear. > Three CHAIN grocery stores (same chain) closed up in my county because > they were running at a loss, meanwhile ANOTHER Wal*Mart, with a grocery > store, opened up. > > More importantly, I made a very personal connection for the first time with > this song!! My father was not a grocer, but he is was > an electronics engineer who decided he didn't like "engineering" so he went > into the sales of electronic parts. His main customers were defense > contractor companies. When Mr. Gorbachev decided to "tear down that wall", > my Dad was out of a job. (Of course in the global sense, the wall coming > down was good.) My Dad wasn't quite retirement age, but he was too old to > compete with the young guys who were willing to do his job for half the > salary. > > My Dad had to retire. In his "idle days" he's never been quite the same. > I feel he kind of lost his rudder. > > Different industry, different reasons, but my Dad IS the grocer in that > song. (And I feel I need to add since I used the past tense so much that > my Dad is still very much alive. I am blessed.) > > Just the lyric, "I s'pose I've worked enough for one life anyway, I've > earned these idle days..." is enough to tip my scales. (Pun intended) > > If "Grocer's Broom" loses, which it probably will, I'm lobbying hard for a > wild card. > > I really like Kenworth, and it's one of the few Shindell songs my husband > likes, but Grocer has my heart... > > > ...Carol ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 9 Feb 2013 10:16:15 -0500 From: Carol Love Subject: [RS] Reversal of Fortune... How many of you picture Ron cackling over his keyboard like one of MacBeth's witches???? Anyway, I listened to "Grocer's Broom" today and I actually started to tear up. I reverse my vote on the Kenworth/Grocery pairing, although "Kenworth" is a staple for Shindell and brings in new fans. I starting thinking about what "Grocer's" is really about. I think it speaks to the Wal*Martzation of America. Two cool little hardware stores in our town died because Home Depot came in. Small bookstores are dying left and right because we can now order books at home in our underwear. Three CHAIN grocery stores (same chain) closed up in my county because they were running at a loss, meanwhile ANOTHER Wal*Mart, with a grocery store, opened up. More importantly, I made a very personal connection for the first time with this song!! My father was not a grocer, but he is was an electronics engineer who decided he didn't like "engineering" so he went into the sales of electronic parts. His main customers were defense contractor companies. When Mr. Gorbachev decided to "tear down that wall", my Dad was out of a job. (Of course in the global sense, the wall coming down was good.) My Dad wasn't quite retirement age, but he was too old to compete with the young guys who were willing to do his job for half the salary. My Dad had to retire. In his "idle days" he's never been quite the same. I feel he kind of lost his rudder. Different industry, different reasons, but my Dad IS the grocer in that song. (And I feel I need to add since I used the past tense so much that my Dad is still very much alive. I am blessed.) Just the lyric, "I s'pose I've worked enough for one life anyway, I've earned these idle days..." is enough to tip my scales. (Pun intended) If "Grocer's Broom" loses, which it probably will, I'm lobbying hard for a wild card. I really like Kenworth, and it's one of the few Shindell songs my husband likes, but Grocer has my heart... ...Carol ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 9 Feb 2013 12:14:20 -0500 From: "Kevin B. Pease" Subject: Re: [RS] Much Madness Round One continues Thankfully, Sparrows Point wasn't paired off against Nora, and you spared me the agony of deciding between them, at least for this round... 1. May 2. Arrowhead 3. Juggler Out In Traffic 4. Kenworth of My Dreams 5. The Things That I Have Seen 6. Money For Floods 7. Memory of You 8. The Courier 9. Cancion Sencilla 10. Sparrows Point 11. Castaway 12. Nora ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 9 Feb 2013 08:41:34 -0500 From: Beth DeSombre Subject: [RS] 13 songs . . . RG says: The CD "12 Songs You've Heard Before, Just Done Slower and With Fewer Instruments, and One New Song." Um, yes. Much slower. That's pretty much what we call that CD in our household. Thank you for naming it officially. We often listen to CDs on long driving trips and had to stop listening to that one in the car for fear of falling asleep. Beth ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 08 Feb 2013 15:41:40 -0500 From: "Michael & Linda Marmer" Subject: Re: [RS] Much Madness Round One continues. Carol. Great, as I saw kidding about Ms. Harris. Mike Mike, I live in Florida. Trust me. You never NEED Katherine Harris. ...Carol ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2013 18:54:45 -0500 From: Carol Love Subject: Re: [RS] Re: Sparrow's Point and Reunion Hill ........Gina, those are really two of my favorite RS albums. "Lazy" might be a little weak, but every other song is a keeper. ..Carol On Fri, Feb 8, 2013 at 5:39 PM, gina wrote: > I think everyone here will breathe a collective sigh of relief to > learn that these two albums are currently winging (trucking?) their > way to me. ;) (Though I do know at least half the songs, thanks to > shows and Courier.) > > Gina ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2013 13:05:04 -0800 From: Subject: [RS] Sparrows Point, the song. >> One of RS's best last lines, "Three days west of Normandy with a rifle in my hand..." << Well, I think Richard's ACTUAL best line is earlier in that song: "I headed mostly northeast with my head held mostly down." But I got to wondering the other day: I've always assumed that the "three days west of Normandy" referred to the invasion of Normandy on D-Day in June of 1944. But if William Taylor was born in '24, wouldn't the reference to him being 21 be off a year, since, depending on his actual birthdate, he could only be either 19 or 20 in 1944? RG ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2013 14:41:34 -0800 From: Subject: Re: [RS] Sparrows Point, the song. >> I cannot BELIEVE you guys stopped and did the math for "SP". << Dog is in the details, Carol. Which is why "North Montana" changed to "West Montana" in "Cold Missouri Waters." RG ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2013 16:29:02 +0000 (GMT) From: CLAIRE LATHAM Subject: Re: [RS] Much Madness Round One continues. How can I decide between Arrowhead and Beyond the Iron Gate? Sent from my Z5 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2013 19:41:32 -0500 From: Pete Jameson Subject: [RS] Living Alone O Grand Poo-Bah, You must live alone...if you're "right all the time"... "I'm wrong about everything" -- John Wesley Harding On Feb 8, 2013, at 7:10 PM, wrote: >>> "Lazy" might be a little weak, but every other song is a keeper. << > > Carol, hate to be anal-hyphen-retentive, but "Lazy" is neither on "Sparrows Point" nor "Reunion Hill." > > I hate to be right all the time, but, well, I'm just sayin'. ;-) > > RG ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2013 08:42:27 -0500 From: John McDonnell Subject: [RS] Re: Sparrow's Point and Reunion Hill Gina wrote: >>These are the songs I don't know and don't have current access to. Looks like they're from Reunion Hill and Sparrow's Point, the two albums I don't have. Well, Gina, if you got hooked on RS without those albums, you're in for a treat. It'll be as if you liked red meat without having had filet mignon. Enjoy! John McD ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2013 9:17:36 -0800 From: Subject: Re: [RS] Much Madness Round One continues. >> is it possible for you to tell us how many voted on the round out of total members on the list? << Sure. There are currently 53 members on the regular list, and 188 on the Digest, although a small handful of people are on both. And 41 members voted. RG ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2013 16:10:26 -0800 From: Subject: Re: [RS] Re: Sparrow's Point and Reunion Hill >> "Lazy" might be a little weak, but every other song is a keeper. << Carol, hate to be anal-hyphen-retentive, but "Lazy" is neither on "Sparrows Point" nor "Reunion Hill." I hate to be right all the time, but, well, I'm just sayin'. ;-) RG ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2013 14:39:56 -0800 From: gina Subject: Re: [RS] Re: Sparrow's Point and Reunion Hill I think everyone here will breathe a collective sigh of relief to learn that these two albums are currently winging (trucking?) their way to me. ;) (Though I do know at least half the songs, thanks to shows and Courier.) Gina - -- ******************************* "and all i want is something i can write about, all i want is something i can cry about..." - -n.f. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2013 15:26:53 -0500 From: Carol Love Subject: Re: [RS] Much Madness Round One continues. 1. May ~ not even a question here. I remember hearing RS perform May live several time before he recorded it. Couldn't WAIT to get it on CD. The way he holds the last note is chilling. 2. Arrowhead ~ A much harder selection. "Beyond" is a really good song, but you just can't take Arrowhead out of the Shindell cannon. It foreshadows the desperation of "You Stay Here" by each verse having things get progressively worse. And I just love RS singing "Mama" for some reason. 3. Blue Divide ~ again, a last note held beautifully. The song is somewhat silly, but it beats "Juggler" for me. 4. Kenworth of my Dreams ~ I hate you, Ron. Kicking "Grocer" out was painful. It is one of my favorite Shindell tunes, but the same soul and sentiment have shown up in other songs, such as "Wisteria". Kenworth is a gateway song into Shindell, and again, cannot be removed from the cannon. 5. Gray Green ~ I don't feel strongly here. Gray Green won because my honey does have gray-green eyes. 6. Lazy ~ "Money" is the more important song in terms of social message, except sadly after Sandy and Katrina we've seen they DON'T always have money for floods. I pick "Lazy" because it's so fun when RS does it live and he rarely does a "silly" song, especially one just because he was learning bossa nova chords that week. 7. The Weather ~ the RARE happy Shindell song. They shouldn't all be suicide songs. 8. The Courier ~ one of his best songs from one of his best albums. The lyrics are true poetry, "I am the string pulled by the sure hand, animating what was still..." I visualize (the good) Mel Gibson running toward the end of Gallipoli every time I hear it. 9. Smiling ~ While I am culturally sensitive and have attended the workshops to prove it, I just don't get into RS's Spanish groove. 10. Sparrows Point ~ titular song from the first album. Can't leave it off!! Plus, I was born in Maryland and had great uncles and grandfathers ship out from SP. One of RS's best last lines, "Three days west of Normandy with a rifle in my hand..." 11. Castaway ~ I've had a baby and I've lived this song. 12. Nora ~ This song made me look up who Abelard was!! The song is a bit mysterious in the same vein as "Fleur de Lis", but you are able to get the gist of the issue. We never really know what/who Nora was to the narrator or even is she is still alive, but we're sure it is no sin to love this song. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2013 15:44:06 -0500 From: Carol Love Subject: Re: [RS] You Stay Here Chris wrote: > Both interpretations remind me of McCarthy's *The Road*. As well as the > video to Trent Reznor's new single, which is pretty haunting. > WOW!!! "The Road" is one of my favorite classics by a living author!! I hadn't thought of this, and I think it's a spot on observation, Chris!! My apologies to listers who are conscientious objectors to parenting, but having children makes all the difference when listening to "You Stay Here' or reading "The Road". You will always do the utmost for your child. ....Carol ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2013 18:55:46 -0500 From: Carol Love Subject: Re: [RS] Sparrows Point, the song. Ron wrote: > Dog is in the details, Carol. Which is why "North Montana" changed to > "West Montana" in "Cold Missouri Waters." > ....Ron, Is there a hyphen in anal retentive??? :-P ..Carol ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2013 8:45:31 -0800 From: Subject: Re: [RS] Much Madness Round One continues. >> Grocer's Broom vs. Kenworth?!?! Are you kidding me?? << >> How can I decide between Arrowhead and Beyond the Iron Gate? << Heh heh, you guys crack me up. Remember, this is only the first round. Just wait until future rounds when winners start getting pitted against winners. My nightmare scenario is that I might eventually have to decide between "The Courier" and "Sparrows Point," and I have no idea how I'll make that choice. RG ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2013 20:43:59 -0500 From: Pete Jameson Subject: [RS] That pivotal... Sparrows' Point is an exceptional debut effort -- many artists release first records that are a culmination of years of honing songs in preparation for a first release...the real trick is to avoid the sophomore slump... Stay the Course, Pedro On Feb 7, 2013, at 8:24 PM, gina wrote: >> .....Really. Not having those Shindell albums is like being a Beatles fan >> and not having "Sgt. Pepper's" and "The White Album". > > Truly? That pivotal? Usually, an artist's early albums don't achieve > such legendary status. I'll clearly need to fill in my gaps. (Though > I'm familiar with probably half those tracks, thanks to live > performances.) If I go the Amazon route, I can have them by the > weekend. ;) > > I was first introduced to Richard's music in the years just before > Somewhere Near Paterson was released. I bought Blue Divide at that > show -- probably because of Mary Magdalene, and maybe a few others he > sang that night. Since then, I've purchased albums as they've been > released, but never got around to getting those early ones. > > Gina > > > > > -- > ******************************* > "and all i want is something i can write about, > all i want is something i can cry about..." > -n.f. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2013 22:01:49 -0500 From: Bart Gallagher Subject: [RS] You Stay Here On Feb 2, 2013, Chris Foxwell wrote: >> ... It's like the song is running down a brutal checklist of five of >> these essentials--fire, food, protection from elements, weapons, >> faith--while pointedly leaving the sixth, love, completely unmentioned. Nice observation on the essentials of life. Chris, you always impress me with your interpretations and literary references that I probably should know, but missed in college, being trained in more technical fields. But, in You Stay Here, I think RS covers love too. ...and if I can, some sugar for the kids. and ...we'll wash them clean with melted snow the kids won't ever have to know..." and, the reference to god, knowing where he's NOT, is a cry for love. I admire the father. He is struggling to make the best of this non-life for his family...Love. I too chose You Stay Here over Mariana's Table, though I truly love MT. That was one of the tough one's for me, but YSH is just too powerful. Bart ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 07 Feb 2013 18:36:48 -0600 From: Dave Hoppenrath Subject: [RS] Re: Much Madness, Round One Want to get my votes in, hope to comment more in future rounds 1. You Stay Here (Mariana's Table) I like "Mariana's Table" more than many seem to, but "You Stay Here" is one of his best. 2. A Tune for Nowhere (Waiting for the Storm) I know it's a landslide for "Waiting for the Storm", but "A Tune for Nowhere" gets to me every time I listen to it. Have seen Richard a dozen times, going back to 2000, have never seen him perform it. Does he ever? 3. Wisteria (Abuelita) Yes, agonizing choice, but "Wisteria" is just so beautiful... 4. Last Fare Of The Day (Get Up Clara) Agree with Ron, an epic song still waiting for an epic recording. 5. Ascent (TV Light) 6. Balloon Man (Easy Street) Also wish the final verse was on the "Not Far Now" CD. 7. Confession (Fenario) Really close, love "Fenario," but "Confession" and "Transit" were the first 2 Richard songs I heard (on the radio), so a sentimental pick. 8. By Now (Howling At The Trouble) 9. I Saw My Youth Today (You Again) Heartbreaking, both lyrics and melody. 10. There Goes Mavis (Parasol Ants) Love "Mavis," it's so distinctive. "Parasol Ants" is fun, but doesn't really grab me. 11. State of the Union (One Man's Arkansas) Ouch, kinda tough. But "State of the Union" is just SO good. Thanks to Ron for posting the extra verses to "Arkansas," though. 12. On A Sea Of Fleur-de-Lis (Hazel's House) I like "Hazel's House" quite a lot, but "Fleur-de-Lis" is just beautiful to listen to. 13. So Says the Whippoorill (Mary Magdalene) Nothing against "Mary Magdalene," but the Dave Carter connection makes this an easy call for me. ------------------------------ End of shindell-list-digest V12 #370 ************************************