From: owner-shindell-list-digest@smoe.org (shindell-list-digest) To: shindell-list-digest@smoe.org Subject: shindell-list-digest V12 #369 Reply-To: shindell-list@smoe.org Sender: owner-shindell-list-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-shindell-list-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk shindell-list-digest Saturday, February 9 2013 Volume 12 : Number 369 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: [RS] Sparrows Point, the song. [Carol Love ] [RS] Concert Tidbits ["Michael & Linda Marmer" ] Re: [RS] Much Madness Round One continues. [Norman Johnson ] Re: [RS] Much Madness Round One continues. ["Michael & Linda Marmer" ] Re: [RS] Much Madness Round One continues. [Peter Booth ] Re: [RS] Sparrows Point, the song. [] Re: [RS] Sparrows Point, the song. ["Michael & Linda Marmer" Subject: Re: [RS] Sparrows Point, the song. Norman (not Howard) Johnsonwrote: > I think the line Carol mentions is better ......Life would be so much easier if everyone just realized I'm always right. I cannot BELIEVE you guys stopped and did the math for "SP". Carol's brain doesn't go there. I realized that being west of Normandy and being in the army in your 20's was a BAD thing. (I do remember RG at some point making a joke about "Saving Private Taylor", tho... :-) Now I'll fight to the death on the POETRY in a song, like this one, but the math goes right by me. *Ciao!* ...Carol ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 08 Feb 2013 18:55:05 -0500 From: "Michael & Linda Marmer" Subject: [RS] Concert Tidbits Richard mentioned last night that when recording Careless, there was a motorcycle outside the studio that went by. It got on the recording as he spent 1000s trying to get that sound off the track. I think he said there is just a small bit of it left, not sure how loud it might be. On Deer on the Parkway, he mentions the Sawmill River Parkway. We go to Maine every October and we do see a exit for the Sawmill River Parkway. It is a short cut, but the road is whiney . We did take it once, as it was getting dark, traffic was fast and deer where everywhere. Never took that short cut again. I am also into model railroads, as it is a big hobby among adults. I do have a sawmill on the layout. Linda said for me to react what Shindell said what could happen to the deer if there was a sawmill. YIKES! Mike ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 08 Feb 2013 15:15:07 -0500 From: Norman Johnson Subject: Re: [RS] Much Madness Round One continues. 1. May Bye Bye May says Bye Bye to Bye Bye. May is one of the most intense songs RS has written. 2. Arrowhead Beyond the Iron Gate Hard choice, but I will go with Beyond the Iron Gate. I don't fully understand it, but I like it. 3. Juggler Out in Traffic Blue Divide Blue Divide, for the Marconi namecheck and the hopeful last verse. 4. Grocer's Broom Kenworth of my Dreams Kenworth, by a nose. 5. The Things that I Have Seen Gray Green The Things That I have seen. 6. Money for Floods Lazy I like Lazy, but it is well lazy. Money for floods wins for its sociopolitical commentary. 7. Memory of You The Weather Gene will be happy that I picked The Weather. Of course, I write this hunkered down waiting for the storm. 8. The Courier Spring The Courier - such great lines like "I am the string pulled by the sure hand.". Plus Larry Campbell fiddle. 9. Cancion Sencilla Smiling Cancion Sencilla. Verb conjugation beats Smiling. 10. Gethsemani Goodbye Sparrows Point Sparrows Point, the great dirge, wins! 11. Castaway Che Guevara T-Shirt I like T-shirt, especially as a companion song to Fishing. 12. The Island Nora Nora is one of my favorites, for how much I want to know about the backstory after it. Given how much Charlie Kauffman likes the Abelard and Heloise story, this song should be in one of his films. Also, there's the wonderful line about Nora's husband downing his vows at the bar. I'm also reminded of the mondegren Charlie Hunter mentioned: clowning around at the bar. Great game! Norman ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2013 17:33:20 -0800 (PST) From: Janet Cinelli Subject: [RS] my picks 1. May - I love this song, especially with the added verse which as far as I can tell is only on the fast folk version. Not a fan of Bye Bye.2. Arrowhead - - I have to go with this one, it's the first song I heard Richard do, I had never heard of him before. He blew me away. 3. Juggler Out in Traffic 4. Kenworth of my Dreams5. Gray Green - such a pretty lulllaby6. Lazy - a rare fun song7. The Weather - even though we're having really crappy weather right now and I don't really get Memory of You.8. Spring9. Smiling - at first I didn't like this one but it grew on me.10. Gethsemani Goodbye 11. Castaway - another pretty lullaby12. Nora - made me curious/obsessed with Abelard and HeloiseJanet ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 08 Feb 2013 14:55:11 -0500 From: "Michael & Linda Marmer" Subject: Re: [RS] Much Madness Round One continues. Ron, Thanks, as I took the larger number to get 21% voted. Not too bad, as usually in something like this, if you get 10% in partaking in the activities you did good. Mike ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2013 6:44:38 -0800 From: Subject: [RS] Much Madness Round One continues. Okay everyone, here's the second part of the first round. Once we have 12 winners here, they'll be added to the previous 13 winners, plus the 6 songs that got a first round bye, plus, by popular demand, one "second chance" wild card from the losing songs from the first two rounds (moderator's choice, and right now it would likely be "Abuelita" simply because that seems to be the pairing that most people were agonizing over) for the round of 32 . . . that is, 16 head-to-head matches, which we'll do all at once. By the way, in order to work in the wild card, it means I had to drop two songs from this round, but I feel pretty safe that most people won't miss "Merritt Parkway," and that many people aren't even familiar with "Satellites" from the CD "12 Songs You've Heard Before, Just Done Slower and With Fewer Instruments, and One New Song." We'll give this round a week, or until submissions stop coming in. 1. May Bye Bye 2. Arrowhead Beyond the Iron Gate 3. Juggler Out in Traffic Blue Divide 4. Grocer's Broom Kenworth of my Dreams 5. The Things that I Have Seen Gray Green 6. Money for Floods Lazy 7. Memory of You The Weather 8. The Courier Spring 9. Cancion Sencilla Smiling 10. Gethsemani Goodbye Sparrows Point 11. Castaway Che Guevara T-Shirt 12. The Island Nora ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2013 10:18:50 -0500 From: Peter Booth Subject: Re: [RS] Much Madness Round One continues. Grocer's Broom vs. Kenworth?!?! Are you kidding me?? (Which of your children would you like to sacrifice, sir?) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 08 Feb 2013 16:22:52 -0500 From: Norman Johnson Subject: Re: [RS] Sparrows Point, the song. Carol: >> One of RS's best last lines, "Three days west of Normandy with a rifle in my hand..." << Ron: >> Well, I think Richard's ACTUAL best line is earlier in that song: "I headed mostly northeast with my head held mostly down."<< I think the line Carol mentions is better because of the earlier reference of "with a slingshot in my hand". He was powerless then, and he's powerless now, even though he does not know it. >> But I got to wondering the other day: I've always assumed that the "three days west of Normandy" referred to the invasion of Normandy on D-Day in June of 1944. But if William Taylor was born in '24, wouldn't the reference to him being 21 be off a year, since, depending on his actual birthdate, he could only be either 19 or 20 in 1944?<< You're right, Ron, I've noticed that as well. Richard flubbed the math. He could repair it by changing the line to "Now I'm twenty years and well employed..." Norman > > RG ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 08 Feb 2013 18:36:57 -0500 From: Howie Subject: Re: [RS] Much Madness Round One continues. At 09:44 AM 2/8/2013, Ron rote: > > >By the way, in order to work in the wild card, it means I had to >drop two songs from this round, but I feel pretty safe that most >people won't miss "Merritt Parkway," and that many people aren't >even familiar with "Satellites" from the CD "12 Songs You've Heard >Before, Just Done Slower and With Fewer Instruments, and One New Song." I LOVE Merritt Parkway. The tune. Commuting on it, way back when, not so much. Trivia - each and every overpass was designed to be unique. - -Howie ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2013 13:41:10 -0800 From: Subject: Re: [RS] Sparrows Point, the song. >> But its Richard's song, as he said last night, "its my show".<< On the other hand, when he got corrected by a military historian on the fact that the Confederate Army did not have a Ninth Brigade in the recorded version of "Arrowhead" (a discussion I was witness to at Tim Blixt's cabin) he changed it to Third Brigade. And I also understand that whippoorwills don't eat seeds. ;-) RG ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 08 Feb 2013 16:27:36 -0500 From: "Michael & Linda Marmer" Subject: Re: [RS] Sparrows Point, the song. trying to fudge something to work in the song? I too think it is Normandy, but he could not be 21. But its Richard's song, as he said last night, "its my show". Mike But I got to wondering the other day: I've always assumed that the "three days west of Normandy" referred to the invasion of Normandy on D-Day in June of 1944. But if William Taylor was born in '24, wouldn't the reference to him being 21 be off a year, since, depending on his actual birthdate, he could only be either 19 or 20 in 1944? RG ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2013 15:28:07 -0500 From: Carol Love Subject: Re: [RS] Much Madness Round One continues. Michael wrote: > > Where is Katherine Harris when you need her. > Mike, I live in Florida. Trust me. You never NEED Katherine Harris. ...Carol ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2013 20:49:14 -0500 From: Peter Booth Subject: Re: [RS] Much Madness Round One continues. 1. May beats out Bye Bye easily. Slam dunk. May is just an incredible song. I like the idea of the power of a writer ("I could bring her back again/ with one stroke of this fountain pen..."). But really, May is just a much much better song. (Though I do like the 60's La-La-La's over "that maaaan, from the motor traaaaade...") 2. Arrowhead stomps all over Beyond the Iron Gate. Another slam dunk. I do like the springtime rush of BTIG but Arrowhead is just so good. BTIG, to me, is about a priest-in-training leaving the monastery to meet up with a lover. Could be wrong, I've been wrong before (see two couples vs. one in last week's convo.) BTIF and Nora are linked in my head -- priests questions their life choices. 3. Blue Divide eeks out Juggler Out in Traffic. I'm not a huge fan of either song, though I *do* like them both. I like the Marconi reference. I can just see the speaker standing on the shore craning to see the other side. Juggler, meh. I like it. I don't love it. 4. Grocer's Broom vs. Kenworth of my Dreams -- Oh no you don't! You can't make me choose! You aren't the boss of me!! OK, fine. I'll pick.... (coin flipped in the air) Grocer's Broom. And now I formally request that someone else who can't choose, please select Kenworth, thereby negating my vote and eventually leading to a dead-heat where both songs live on to the next round. 5. The Things that I Have Seen is a GREAT SONG. Gray Green is a GOOD SONG. Great beats Good every time. (... and this despite the fact that when Vuelta came out I would sing my son to sleep with my Gray Green on my guitar.) 6. Lazy beats Money for Floods. I know others have called Lazy cute, but I just love it. (Just because it doesn't make you feel suicidal doesn't mean it doesn't capture a true emotion, people!) I've always felt like Lazy was the ultimate testimony of love. "I just wanna lay in bed with you and have sex all day. You're THAT amazing!" (This song always makes me text my wife and tell her I love her when it comes up on my iPod.) Definitely not in the same category as Clara, for me. 7. The Weather beats Memory of You (both Courier version AND Sparrows Point): Memory of You is just too slow and morose for me. (I listened to the live version and then the studio and the studio version -- after the live version the studio actually sounded like a 45rpm played at 33rpm). Either way, both are just to slow and downbeat for me. The Weather is peppy and makes me want to sing in the car. Best line: "You might even love each other!" "Love is lost, love is foooooooooound! Never mind the weather!" (Also super easy and fun to crank out on the guitar!) 8. My apologies in advance but, Spring beats The Courier. Wait, wait, wait, don't flame me yet. I absolutely LOVE The Courier, but there's something about Spring that just makes me burst with joy. I literally don't know what it is (and I have to admit that it's a smidge easier NOT to vote for The Courier when I know damn well that my vote is going to vastly overcome by the votes for The Courier. It's kind of my chance to speak up for the little guy whom I love, knowing full well that the rightful heir will to the top.) :-) 9. Smiling crushes Cancion Sencilla. Cancion Sencilla is a "Skip to next track". I almost always choose music based on poetry over musicality (in general) and even when I asked a friend to translate the lyrics of CS, I still just don't like it. Oh, and Smiling is great. (It's Jesus that he sees smiling, right?) 10. Sparrows Point beats Gethsemani Goodbye -- No comment. Just love the full life story of Sparrows Point. 11. Che Guevara T-Shirt beats Castaway by alot. I can't believe Che Guevara was only released in 2004. Feels like a song I've known for decades. Castway, meh. 12. Nora beats The Island -- The Island feels a little too Jimmy Buffet Parrothead-y to me. Yeah, life's good on the island. I get it. Have a drink, everything's fine. (even though the damn island's sinking into the water!) Fun game! Thanks all, Peter (On a different topic, did Richard mention my Facebook song request at either of Thursday's shows? I posted a request on Tuesday hoping he'd play it on Wednesday, but he didn't and I couldn't tune in on Thursday) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 08 Feb 2013 11:57:53 -0500 From: "Michael & Linda Marmer" Subject: Re: [RS] Much Madness Round One continues. Ron, is it possible for you to tell us how many voted on the round out of total members on the list? Just curious, as it could be been a lot different due to total outcome. Any chads hanging on a song? Where is Katherine Harris when you need her. Mike ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2013 22:42:43 -0500 From: Vanessa Wills Subject: Re: [RS] Much Madness Round One continues. Gosh, for me, this round has even more tough calls than the first. 1. *May* vs. Bye Bye 1. I LOVE MAY. It is gripping, cinematic, urgent, and tragic. Richard sounds incredible on the RH recording and as Norman said, it is one of the most intense songs Richard has ever written or performed. (Gina, I cannot wait for you to get your hands on the Reunion Hill album!!) That being said, for me this was definitely *not* a no contest match-up, because I LOVE BYE BYE, TOO. First off, it has a soft place in my heart because I was there when Richard first debuted this song in front of an audience. He'd been invited to a Beatles sing-along on the FRFF Workshop Stage. Everyone else dutifully sang their Beatles cover and Richard in fine contrarian form played Bye Bye, instead. People in the audience around me were sort of grumbly and of course I was on Cloud Nine. New RS music! Ahem. As I was saying. I also love that this is a response to a Beatles song *and* it's also a great song about the writing processhow as an author you might feel you have the power to have characters do whatever you want but you quickly realize that the characters and the story have their own truth and your work is to tell it. I really think it's a beautiful and intriguing song. Actually, I almost voted for it over May but I had to go for the one that both grabs my heart and breaks it in such a beautiful way. 2. *Arrowhead* vs. Beyond the Iron Gate 1. For me, this one is a much easier call. Beyond the Iron Gate is a lovely song and would have beaten out Mavis or Parasol Ants. It just has the bad luck here of going against a real heavyweight. Arrowhead is a signature song in Richard's repertoire for damn good reason. The jaunty rhythm, the sympathetic character of the boy soldier, the way Richard inhabits that character so fully and describes his situation in rich and colorful detail as though he were in it himself, the way the character's sense of his own danger heightens with each verse until he finally resorts to desertion... heck, Richard packs more into a four minute song than some people do into a whole book. 3. *Juggler Out in Traffic* vs. Blue Divide 1. Juggler Out in Traffic is one of my favorite songs, which means Blue Divide kinda gets the shaft since it's actually a cute song that I really like. I just went back and listened to it again for probably the first time in years to be sure I didn't want to vote for it instead of Juggler! It's just such a charming and funny-sad song. :) And a genius way to close out an album. But as I said, Juggler is one of my personal favorites. There's something about the hypnotic quality of the melody and the lyrics with their quiet, desperate devotion to a person who'll never reward the lengths this character has gone to in order to impress. I mean, seriously, he's switched from bowling pins to *fire* and she still can't give him the time of day. Plus, I just love the line, One then two then three then one/A centrifuge, a cyclotron and that whole final verse with its awesome poetic description of a juggling act. And I love the contrast of this very public persona, literally out in traffic, totally exposed, and then this secret, alienated, tragic inner life. I just find Juggler totally devastating. It pulls you into its own universe, and drops you down right inside the pain and loneliness of its central character. I always find myself having to snap myself out of this song when it's finally over. I don't even know if I can really do full justice to how much I love this song. 4. Grocer's Broom vs. *Kenworth of my Dreams* 1. I've always heard Kenworth as really being a song about starting out on the easy and lucrative path of making folk music, and more broadly, about striking out on one's own to follow any path that is difficult and not especially materially rewarding, but close to one's heart. I love it. 1. *The Things **T**hat I Have Seen* vs. Gray Green 1. I really like Gray Green quite a bit. But The Things That I Have Seen is the better and more interesting song of the two. 2. Money for Floods vs. *Lazy* 1. I love Lazy. LOVE IT!!! It is so much fun to listen to, so much fun to sing, and generally just so awesome and adorable. In fact I am so glad this activity has made me go back and listen to Lazy for the first time in years. (I really don't pull out Blue Divide nearly often enough, clearly.) 3. *Memory of You* vs. The Weather 1. I had been seeing Richard play for years before I finally saw him do Memory of You live and it was one of the most lovely and memorable experiences of my life to finally hear and see him play this song that I love live on stage. Memory of You is, for me, quintessential Shindell, combining mystery and foreignness with the emotional familiar. 4. The Courier vs. *Spring* 1. It's about the joy of spring, the rhythms of life... it's sexy and splendidly vital. And gosh, do I love that line, And opening your eyes you will surrender/To the light that fills the room. For years, I have always played this song on the first official day of spring. What better way to usher in that time of energy and awakening? 5. *Cancion Sencilla* vs. Smiling 1. Cancion Sencilla always bring a smile to my face. It's a really cute and sweet love song, and who knew conjugating verbs could be so poetic? 6. *Gethsemani Goodbye* vs. Sparrows Point 1. Gethsemani Goodbye--in its original, Richard-sung version!!--is one heck of a way to say mea culpa. I love the melody, too. Also, in this song Richard proves that he could literally sing Google Maps directions and make it sound good. 7. Castaway vs. *Che Guevara T-Shirt* 1. I like Castaway but it's totally outmatched by Che Guevara T-Shirt. 8. The Island vs. *Nora* 1. Oh, dear, this is also a line-up of two favorites. At first I was going to go with Nora, then I switched to The Island, then I went back and listened to The Island again. Then I listened to Nora again and I just couldn't not vote for it. Nora is SO achingly and hauntingly beautiful. But I feel like The Island sometimes gets undersold. There is this creeping sense of dread and loss there that is really intriguing. I remember very clearly the first time I heard this songit was one summer at Concerts Under The Stars in Upper Merion just outside Philly. It made such an impression on me right away. But Nora wins for reasons we've discussed on this list many times over the years. I find myself asking so many questions and wanting to know more about Nora and about the two men hunched on their bar stools. I want to read the play Nora wrote about Heloise! It is just such an intriguing song that contains its own universe. It's definitely the winner here. 'Nessa out! On Fri, Feb 8, 2013 at 9:44 AM, wrote: > Okay everyone, here's the second part of the first round. ------------------------------ End of shindell-list-digest V12 #369 ************************************