From: owner-shindell-list-digest@smoe.org (shindell-list-digest) To: shindell-list-digest@smoe.org Subject: shindell-list-digest V12 #295 Reply-To: shindell-list@smoe.org Sender: owner-shindell-list-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-shindell-list-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk shindell-list-digest Monday, February 4 2013 Volume 12 : Number 295 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: [RS] Fwd: [Laurence Krulik ] [RS] RE: shindell-list-digest V12 #294 [Isabel Frey ] [RS] Re: Mavis [rongrittz@aol.com] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2013 15:30:26 -0500 From: Laurence Krulik Subject: Re: [RS] Fwd: Super surprised by the general take-it-or-leave-it feeling with Mavis. I think it's one of Richard's best songs. I think there is a nice little freedom story there as well. Granted, not as strong as he other true storyteller tunes, but I simply love idea that no one hears the little girl cheering for Mavis because they're acutely focusing on the castle dangers. Another example of Richard expanding and brilliantly capturing a fairly innocuous activity. If you weren't listening close enough you might think there was some actual castle being invaded. More than anything though, I take away a childhood innocence and blind determination similar to the themes of Catcher in the Rye. Despite her mother tell her Mavis won't make it, the little girl has all the faith in the world the bird will make it. Towards the end, the "diggers" feel her passion and get behind the little girl and abandon the reality that Mavis will likely not make it. So much so, they forget about the castle they were so focused on building their wall breach. And he leaves the listener hope Mavis will defeat the odds. Given how much Richard plays it live, I think he would he lobby for Mavis. On Mon, Feb 4, 2013 at 2:49 PM, Vanessa Wills wrote: > Yes, I LOL'd when I read Gene's explanation of his vote for "You Stay > Here". I know that look well! > > Gene also wrote: > <<8. By Now > > A great song, but the pick is bolstered by the memory of the shocked > reactions of the old-school Shindell List folks who could not get over the > idea that the driver was not just a nice old guy giving a young woman a > ride. Insert 'Bwahahahaha' by Vanessa here.>> > > It's still curious to me that there could be any doubt as to the meaning of > this song. Folks must have been listening to it with a good helping of "say > it ain't so". > > And Gene further wrote: > > <<10. There Goes Mavis > > Can I write in a candidate? Lesser of two here.>> > > This is another recurrent Much Madness theme. The "Wisteria" vs. "Abuelita" > match-up is a tough call because they are both such great songs, but the > "There Goes Mavis" vs. "Parasol Ants" match-up is equally tough for a > number of us because, at least from what I've gathered, neither song is a > big favorite with most of the active listers. > > Chris Foxwell pointed out a few years back that Richard is experimenting > with more abstract lyrics that do not have a "point", moving more towards > "descriptive" rather than "narrative" songwriting ( > http://www.smoe.org/lists/shindell-list/v09.n211). "Mavis" and "Ants" > both, > quite arguably, represent moves toward that more "descriptive" style. But > most of us on the list prize Richard's gifts as a storyteller, which may be > part of why these songs tend to be less popular. It's also interesting that > most people have a slight preference for "Mavis", which is the more > narrative of the two. (But then, I also tend to think it has the better > melody, as well.) > > On the other hand, and I find this very intriguing, the "Last Fare of the > Day" vs. "Get Up Clara" match-up has *also* been an extremely tough call > for many of us. Here you have one song that is a clear exemplar of > Richard's narrative songwriting style, definitely with a "point", matched > up against another song that is almost perfectly "pointless" in the sense > of not really having any social agenda. "Last Fare" is great for reasons > we've covered many times on this list. I voted for "Last Fare" but also > tend to love the existential absurdity of "Get Up Clara", its winking > humor, and the grin you can hear in Richard's voice when he sings it. I > haven't been counting up the votes but it's my impression that "Clara" is > giving "Last Fare" a run for its money. Interesting! > > Is it that we won't hold "pointlessness" against a song? Is it that we like > "Clara" *in spite* of its "pointlessness" (I'm pretty sure the > "pointlessness" of "Clara" is an integral part of what I like about it)? Do > we tend to be less enamored of "Mavis" and "Ants" because we perceive them > as "pointless" or is it for some other reason? Was Richard right when he > said melody and chord-progression mattered, but lyrics, not so much? > > I'll be thinking more about what we can conclude from all this but for now > I better get back to work. ::sigh:: > > Love and Bwahahahahas, > V > > P.S. Thank you again, Ron, for setting up Much Madness. I am amazed that > after all these years and all these listens, I am finding brand new ways to > hear and to think about these songs. > > > On Mon, Feb 4, 2013 at 1:37 PM, Janet Cinelli > wrote: > > > I laughed when I read this. It's true, I've seen the look too! > > > > --- On Mon, 2/4/13, Gene Frey wrote: > > > > > > 1. You Stay Here > > > > Plus, it's a great > > song, has no choruses, and I've seen it performed 25 times and love to > > watch the look on Richard's face when he realizes he's not sure which > > verse comes next. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2013 15:42:58 -0500 From: Isabel Frey Subject: [RS] RE: shindell-list-digest V12 #294 First, my apologies. We were away for the weekend and I haven't yet caught up with everyone's comments. Here are my picks: 1. You Stay Here 2. Waiting For The Storm 3. Wisteria - I love Abuelita as well but I still tear up when I hear Wisteria. 4. Last Fare Of The Day - no question for me. 5. Ascent 6. Easy Street 7. Fenario, but only because I can't have both. 8. By Now 9. I Saw My Youth Today 10. There Goes Mavis - love the tune,but the lyrics are a little cloying to me. 11.One Man's Arkansas 12. On A Sea Of Fleur-De-Lis 13. Mary Magdalene, but another tough choice. Thanks, Ron! ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2013 15:39:29 -0500 (EST) From: rongrittz@aol.com Subject: [RS] Re: Mavis >> Given how much Richard plays it live, I think he would he lobby for Mavis. << He's more than welcome to join the list and vote. ;-) Would actually be intersting to get his take, although there's the whole "deciding between my children" thing. RG ------------------------------ End of shindell-list-digest V12 #295 ************************************