From: owner-shindell-list-digest@smoe.org (shindell-list-digest) To: shindell-list-digest@smoe.org Subject: shindell-list-digest V12 #44 Reply-To: shindell-list@smoe.org Sender: owner-shindell-list-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-shindell-list-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk shindell-list-digest Wednesday, October 12 2011 Volume 12 : Number 044 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: [RS] Nora [Amy Cocuzza ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2011 07:48:21 -0400 From: Amy Cocuzza Subject: Re: [RS] Nora Welcome, Martin! To the old-timers on the list: didn't we have a discussion a few (7?) years ago about Nora being a deliberate nod to Famous Blue Raincoat? And Richard acknowledging the connection? Or am I totally inventing that? I even tried stalking the archives, but I can't quite remember whether this would have been the spring of '04 or '05 and, well, that's a lot of old posts to sift through. But I swear that I had that conversation with Richard at some point, and that this group had a pretty healthy exchange on the topic. Martin, whether I'm remembering correctly or experiencing early-onset dementia, it may offer some insight to check out Leonard Cohen's Famous Blue Raincoat. Then again, maybe not: Cohen can be pretty inscrutable himself. :) Cheers, ~A. On Mon, Oct 10, 2011 at 7:21 AM, Martin Giles wrote: > Hi Norman. thanks for the reply. I'd forgotten (?) about Abelard's > castration! (Actually, I might have been at school when I heard the story, > and it would have been sanitised for us, I think). > > So how does the story connect with Nora then, do you think? Am I missing > any > more insight into the 'actual' story of Nora and RS's character in the > song? > I'm drawn to the line about when he's in the bar with Nora's husband: > > 'There we raised a first and the next > and a third glass to you. > Hunched on our barstools and calling our truce by your name.' > > So I'm guessing, were RS's character and Nora's husband perhaps once > friends > who fell out over loving the same woman, and now (because of the parish in > Greenland?) are letting bygones be bygones? And is Nora going with her > husband to Greenland? Is that a metaphor for something? > > Damn, I'm missing a lot here, I'm sure!! > > M. > > Martin wrote: > > >> The impression I get from it is that they have had an affair, or > >> perhaps just been in love, though she is married. The main > >> reference is of course Eloise and Abelard, who I seem to recall > >> were a student and teacher who fell in love in mediaeval times. I > >> don't remember the details, but there was a something about not > >> being allowed to marry, but still going ahead, but them both > >> separating and living lives in penance. Something like that.<< > > Norman wrote: > > Martin, > > That's the gist, but there's a lot more. Abelard was one of the > leading scholars of the day (roughly 900 years ago). They not only > married secretly, but had a child, Astrolabe. Heloise's uncle was so > upset that he Abelard castrated (!). They exchanged letters at various > times in their lives. > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Abelard > > Carol: didn't you also think Nora was dead? > > Norman > > -- > There are 10 kinds of people in this world - those who understand binary > and > those who don't. ------------------------------ End of shindell-list-digest V12 #44 ***********************************