From: owner-shindell-list-digest@smoe.org (shindell-list-digest) To: shindell-list-digest@smoe.org Subject: shindell-list-digest V8 #27 Reply-To: shindell-list@smoe.org Sender: owner-shindell-list-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-shindell-list-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk shindell-list-digest Monday, February 13 2006 Volume 08 : Number 027 Today's Subjects: ----------------- [RS] Re: Springsteen [McDonnell & Younghans ] [RS] Music Boxes? [Bart Gallagher ] Re: [RS] Re: Springsteen [Rongrittz@aol.com] Re: [RS] Re: Springsteen [Chris Foxwell ] [RS] Re: Springsteen [John McDonnell ] [RS] indies versus major labels ["Norman Johnson" Subject: [RS] Re: Springsteen Hi All, Chip wrote: >>Regarding John McD's comment that "........ the committee should use their powers to do good, not evil. " .. all I can say is "Huh"? You're making an inconsequential bunch like the Grammy voters/nominators seem like Joe McCarthy for God's sake< Chip--that was a joke, and I apologize if leaving out the "LOL" or exclamation point didn't alert you to it. You couldn't detect my interest in the Grammys or their voters with an electron microscope, but I don't feel the need to defend my musical, political or social priorities right now. I think I have expressed them in previous posts and if you're interested, you may e-mail me directly. In general my point (poorly made, apparently) is that it seems more of a commercial exercise than anything else and that name recognition not accurate reflection drives the show. As to RG's question about genre, I find that many artists, although succesful in one genre, are often multi-talented and versatile, and can succeed across genre's, and Joe's mentioning Dion is apt. What irritated me about the "folk" designation is that many talented folk artists, these days, tend to toil in relative obscurity, and as a genre, I think it's greatly underappreciated. I felt that Springsteen was not just being recognized in the folk category, but was being presented as an archetypal folk singer. I you recall, I did suspect I needed to be talked down on this (but not lectured). "Recognition" in different genres, for me, raises issues about evaluation of art that were previously posted. Is Dylan's "Nashville Skyline" a good country album? It's one of my least favorite Dylan albums, but does putting it in a particular genre mean anything? I think I don't like Country music, but when I hear a lot of traditional American country music, it sounds a lot like traditional Irish and Scottish folk music, which I do like, so who knows? Would love to post longer but I have to fight for the eradication of the scourge of Western Civilization and Democracy--toast sweat. John McD. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 12 Feb 2006 11:37:11 -0500 From: Bart Gallagher Subject: [RS] Music Boxes? Joe wrote: > How about Dion DiMucci? (You know, Run Around Sue, etc) He was the ultimate > 50's/early 60s doo wop king and later in the 60s made what I would consider > a bunch of folk/pop songs like Abraham, Martin and John. > > Am I stretching a point? - ---------- And Dion just released "Bronx in Blue" a true blues album with many standards. Adventurous for a middle class white boy. I've heard some of the tracks, which are quite good, unadorned, authentic. Is he a "Bluesman"? Do we always have to put people in Music Boxes? Regarding Peters "I'll drink to this post." for Chip's thoughts. Set 'em up. I haven't been to an 'arena show' since Eric Clapton's Journeyman tour, and would not go to see RS in such a venue, ever (unless he were to employ laser lights and scantily clad backup singers). There are just too many good folks to see up close. Bluesman Bart ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 12 Feb 2006 17:11:36 EST From: Rongrittz@aol.com Subject: Re: [RS] Re: Springsteen >> In general my point (poorly made, apparently) is that it seems more of a commercial exercise than anything else and that name recognition not accurate reflection drives the show. << Well, yeah, but that's not really NEWS to anyone, is it? RG ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 12 Feb 2006 17:16:41 -0500 From: Chris Foxwell Subject: Re: [RS] Re: Springsteen On 2/12/06, Rongrittz@aol.com wrote: > >> In general my point (poorly made, apparently) is > that it seems more of a commercial exercise than anything else and that > name > recognition not accurate reflection drives the show. << > > Well, yeah, but that's not really NEWS to anyone, is it? What drivel is this? I only ever listen to Grammy-winning artists. I also only watch Fox news. (back to annoying German homework) - --Chris - -- "We were born in a dark age out of due time (for us). But there is this comfort: otherwise we should not know, or so much love, what we do love. I imagine the fish out of water is the only fish to have an inkling of water." - --J.R.R. Tolkien ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 12 Feb 2006 18:22:46 -0500 From: John McDonnell Subject: [RS] Re: Springsteen Hi All RG wrote: >>Well, yeah, but that's not really NEWS to anyone, is it?<< In response to my disappointment that name recognition drives the Grammys. In short, no, but why not have an expectation that a show made by music insiders at least be accurate? As I said, I have no interest in the show, its categories or its tabulations, but why NOT expect it to have some integrity? John McD ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 12 Feb 2006 19:44:12 -0500 From: "Norman Johnson" Subject: [RS] indies versus major labels I can't fault the Grammys for putting Bruce Springsteen's album in the folk category because that's where it clearly belongs. Likewise, Billy Joel had an album of classical music a few years back-- that album should be in the classical category. So what to do about artists like Richard, Dar, Tracy Grammer, Peter Mulvey, Lori McKenna, etc? In years past, folk artists would release albums on major labels, but that is no longer the case. So, I think the Grammys should have separate categories for indie labels. Norman ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 12 Feb 2006 21:14:03 -0500 From: "Adam Plunkett" Subject: RE: [RS] indies versus major labels But I believe indie labels do get nominees. Take a look at this year's nominees: In the two folk catagories there were some major albums but also indies - Sugar Hill (Nickel Creek and winner Tim O'Bren), Oh Boy (winner John Prine), Rounder (Jimmie Dale Gilmore), Pax, and Green Hill. Red House Records, which is just folk, was nominated last year. A lot of ppl say what Norman said - am I missing something? Then there are the FolkWax's of the world and they do noiminees. But the issue I have with those is it seems that they always nomiante the same people! Another award, The Boston Music Awards, literally nominate the same few ppl in the folk category every year. Ellis Paul has won, like, 20 awards. He's a great songwriter but not 20 awards good. :) That should be reserved for Dylan only. There's a lot of great folk music out there and much is not just ignored by the Grammy crowd but some of the folk crowd too..in my opinion. Eitehr that or I have obscure tastes! It woiuld be nice for Richard to be nominated - but I think the Grammys do ok...not as bad as in other categories. If I were to nomiate for the last year, I would agree with some of their nominees. Here's my top 5 contemporary folk from last year: Vuelta (that may have been the Grammys before though) Springsteen, Devils and Dust Prine Richard Thompson, Front Parlour Ballads Jez Lowe, Doolally (I actually thought it was a down year for contempoorary folk albums) Traditional: Tim O'Brien, Fiddler's Green Martin Simpson, Kind Letters Jimmie Dale Gilmore, Come on Back Great Big Sea, Hard and the Easy Chieftains, Tribute to Derek Bell >From: "Norman Johnson" >Reply-To: shindell-list@smoe.org >To: >Subject: [RS] indies versus major labels >Date: Sun, 12 Feb 2006 19:44:12 -0500 > >I can't fault the Grammys for putting Bruce Springsteen's album in the folk >category because that's where it clearly belongs. Likewise, Billy Joel had >an album of classical music a few years back-- that album should be in the >classical category. > >So what to do about artists like Richard, Dar, Tracy Grammer, Peter Mulvey, >Lori McKenna, etc? In years past, folk artists would release albums on >major >labels, but that is no longer the case. So, I think the Grammys should have >separate categories for indie labels. > >Norman _________________________________________________________________ Is your PC infected? Get a FREE online computer virus scan from McAfee. Security. http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 ------------------------------ End of shindell-list-digest V8 #27 **********************************